DDOT / SMART look to streamline fare aystem

[DetroitSoldier]

This would be a first step at making bus transit work for the region. I fully support this effort.

http://www.detroitmi.gov/ddot

Edit: auto-correct failed me in the thread title. My apologies.

[dtowncitylover]

Day Passes! ONE REGIONAL CARD! My mouth is salivating like Homer Simpson.

I can't wait for 2050 when we get loadable fare cards that are contactless!

[xrockerboy]

About time!!

[Tig3rzhark]

I would have to agree, however...there needs to be a true improvement in customer service.

[DetroitSoldier]

I would have to agree, however...there needs to be a true improvement in customer service.

Is an overhaul of the fare system not a customer service related improvement?

[Jason]

Does this mean that DDOT fares are being increased from $1.50 to $2.00? Or will the old single trip rides still be $1.50? Will this someday be the standard fare, and if you pay cash you'd get a 4 hour transfer ticket automatically?

If they do this correctly they'll have a lot more data about people's trips, which will help them plan their routes.

Day Passes! ONE REGIONAL CARD! My mouth is salivating like Homer Simpson.

I can't wait for 2050 when we get loadable fare cards that are contactless!

I agree but I think they've been trying to do this for at least a few years now and I think this is what they think they can actually do. In 2015 the People Mover did a study and found a full regional tap and go open payment fare system would cost $16-22 million.

It's hard to tell exactly what they're doing. This could be the full system everyone wants, but limited to smartphones because the hardware to support smart cards and credit cards would cost too much money. Or they could be trying to throw together their own custom system which would have more limited potential. Either way I feel like this is a huge improvement.


My fantasy though is to have universal tap and go/open payment that also includes the People Mover, Q-Line, AAATA, but ALSO municipal parking. So if you weren't a transit rider, but liked to visit Ferndale, you'd still have the transit card, which would lower the barrier to entry for using transit.

[Honky Tonk]

Does this mean that DDOT fares are being increased from $1.50 to $2.00? Or will the old single trip rides still be $1.50? Will this someday be the standard fare, and if you pay cash you'd get a 4 hour transfer ticket automatically?

If they do this correctly they'll have a lot more data about people's trips, which will help them plan their routes.



I agree but I think they've been trying to do this for at least a few years now and I think this is what they think they can actually do. In 2015 the People Mover did a study and found a full regional tap and go open payment fare system would cost $16-22 million.

It's hard to tell exactly what they're doing. This could be the full system everyone wants, but limited to smartphones because the hardware to support smart cards and credit cards would cost too much money. Or they could be trying to throw together their own custom system which would have more limited potential. Either way I feel like this is a huge improvement.


My fantasy though is to have universal tap and go/open payment that also includes the People Mover, Q-Line, AAATA, but ALSO municipal parking. So if you weren't a transit rider, but liked to visit Ferndale, you'd still have the transit card, which would lower the barrier to entry for using transit.

Or you could simply buy a vehicle, go wherever you like, whenever you like, run all your errands in one trip, get MI's economy going, and not burden taxpayers with more debt.

[dtowncitylover]

Or you could simply buy a vehicle, go wherever you like, whenever you like, run all your errands in one trip, get MI's economy going, and not burden taxpayers with more debt.

LOL Nahhhhh. Cars are overrated.

[Honky Tonk]

LOL Nahhhhh. Cars are overrated.

Can't figure out how to drive, can you?

[dtowncitylover]

Can't figure out how to drive, can you?

No, I don't really care to. I don't really care for my commute and the time I've wasted alone because of my unique commute. I don't really care that my car depreciates in value every time I drive it. I don't really care for our high insurance rates. Or the monthly car payment. Or the yearly tabs payment and inevitable insurance hikes. I don't really care for the $150 yearly I spend on oil changes. Or the probably $3,000-5000 extra I will spend over its life for other maintenance. And I don't care for any future emotional toll that may happen should I get into a nasty accident because that's how life goes sometimes.

But please, tell me more how cars are "independence".

I'd rather be at the whim of the elements outside and maybe a bus or train is running late because that's temporary and I'll know that I'm not in a car, which is a ball and chain to one's life.

And for the amount of bad [[nevermind uninsured) drivers on the road, one would think a decent, connected mass transit system would be a welcome relief to those who think they're "good drivers".

So I welcome and applaud DDOT and SMART, with what little they have, in trying to make it easier for us car owners and for everyone to use their systems.

[Honky Tonk]

No, I don't really care to. I don't really care for my commute and the time I've wasted alone because of my unique commute. I don't really care that my car depreciates in value every time I drive it. I don't really care for our high insurance rates. Or the monthly car payment. Or the yearly tabs payment and inevitable insurance hikes. I don't really care for the $150 yearly I spend on oil changes. Or the probably $3,000-5000 extra I will spend over its life for other maintenance. And I don't care for any future emotional toll that may happen should I get into a nasty accident because that's how life goes sometimes.

But please, tell me more how cars are "independence".

I'd rather be at the whim of the elements outside and maybe a bus or train is running late because that's temporary and I'll know that I'm not in a car, which is a ball and chain to one's life.

And for the amount of bad [[nevermind uninsured) drivers on the road, one would think a decent, connected mass transit system would be a welcome relief to those who think they're "good drivers".

So I welcome and applaud DDOT and SMART, with what little they have, in trying to make it easier for us car owners and for everyone to use their systems.

What DDOT, SMART, FAST, and NOT-SO-FAST need to do is adjust their rates accordingly, let say $10-$12 dollars a trip for riders, to match today's inflation. This would eliminate the tax burden placed auto owners, property owners, and other tax payers, then take the money now used to subsidize these money losing propositions, and use it to maintain roads and other necessary infrastructure. There's no such thing as a free ride.

[dtowncitylover]

use it to maintain roads and other necessary infrastructure. There's no such thing as a free ride.

That is other necessary infrastructure. I cannot believe how ignorant you are on transportation. Then again, you could be trolling.

There is no such thing as a free ride. Not on roads, buses, planes, or trains. And...? Can we toll every road from the end of your driveway to your work so I don't have to pay for them?

Also FAST is a SMART service, not a separate agency.

Also, I'm not quite sure what inflation you're talking about. I don't know what DDOT fares were 50 years ago but let's they were .25 per ride, which sounds about right. That's 1.85 today and when DDOT [[SMART is already at $2) raises their fare to $2 they'll be over par on inflation so they're doing things just fine. In fact, most cities are already seeing $2+ for bus rides. And even if the .25$ is low, fares back then would've had to have been $1.50-2 [[which they weren't) in order for your idea to work to "keep up with inflation".

We're all tax payers. There's nothing special about homeowners. If you live in an apartment or house, we all pay.

DDOT isn't even funded directly by property owners, it's budget comes from the city's budget as opposed to some special tax like SMART.

Public transit, just like most public services, doesn't have to pay for itself. 99% of public transit systems don't pay for themselves.

[Honky Tonk]

That is other necessary infrastructure. I cannot believe how ignorant you are on transportation. Then again, you could be trolling.

There is no such thing as a free ride. Not on roads, buses, planes, or trains. And...? Can we toll every road from the end of your driveway to your work so I don't have to pay for them?

Also FAST is a SMART service, not a separate agency.

Also, I'm not quite sure what inflation you're talking about. I don't know what DDOT fares were 50 years ago but let's they were .25 per ride, which sounds about right. That's 1.85 today and when DDOT [[SMART is already at $2) raises their fare to $2 they'll be over par on inflation so they're doing things just fine. In fact, most cities are already seeing $2+ for bus rides. And even if the .25$ is low, fares back then would've had to have been $1.50-2 [[which they weren't) in order for your idea to work to "keep up with inflation".

We're all tax payers. There's nothing special about homeowners. If you live in an apartment or house, we all pay.

DDOT isn't even funded directly by property owners, it's budget comes from the city's budget as opposed to some special tax like SMART.

Public transit, just like most public services, doesn't have to pay for itself. 99% of public transit systems don't pay for themselves.

Speaking of "ignorance". Sorry about my confusion. With all the empty busses running around, I lose track which is which.

[dtowncitylover]

Speaking of "ignorance". Sorry about my confusion. With all the empty busses running around, I lose track which is which.

"Empty busses [sic]" Your anecdotal views of buses mean nothing.

Nothing I said was wrong. The other source of funds to DDOT is by the feds through the RTCC, but that's federal funds [[and another reason why we need a funded and effective RTA).

[Honky Tonk]

"Empty busses [sic]" Your anecdotal views of buses mean nothing.

Nothing I said was wrong. The other source of funds to DDOT is by the feds through the RTCC, but that's federal funds [[and another reason why we need a funded and effective RTA).

For real? Where do you think "the Feds" get it from? My "view" of what is going on, on the various bus services means that's what is going on. $300K new busses with, maybe, 12 people on them. And in the off hours, it's even worse. You expect people to keep propping this system up because you're too woosy to learn to drive and too cheap to buy a vehicle. I'm sure diving would seriously impair your posting time.

[dtowncitylover]

For real? Where do you think "the Feds" get it from? My "view" of what is going on, on the various bus services means that's what is going on. $300K new busses with, maybe, 12 people on them. And in the off hours, it's even worse. You expect people to keep propping this system up because you're too woosy to learn to drive and too cheap to buy a vehicle. I'm sure diving would seriously impair your posting time.

Yes, taxes. Good, that's what helps pay for a modern society.

Your view is anecdotal and means little. Just because you saw a bus last week with 3 people on it [[could've started out with 45 but you'll never know) doesn't mean the system needs to be dismantled.

12 people is 12 cars [[or bad or uninsured drivers) off the road.

Also, that $300,000 bus was built in the US by American hands getting a union wage.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes, taxes. Good, that's what helps pay for a modern society.

Your view is anecdotal and means little. Just because you saw a bus last week with 3 people on it [[could've started out with 45 but you'll never know) doesn't mean the system needs to be dismantled.

12 people is 12 cars [[or bad or uninsured drivers) off the road.

Also, that $300,000 bus was built in the US by American hands getting a union wage.

Where about in Detroit did you say you lived?

[dtowncitylover]

Where about in Detroit did you say you lived?

This, regional/mass/public transit, literally has to do with the metro area in which I do live. I also use DDOT from time to time because I live near Detroit and ONE REGIONAL PASS will make using it even better and easier.

Where I live matters little to the overarching sentiment that we need better public transit in the region and SMART/DDOT partnerships are a good thing.

[Honky Tonk]

This, regional/mass/public transit, literally has to do with the metro area in which I do live. I also use DDOT from time to time because I live near Detroit and ONE REGIONAL PASS will make using it even better and easier.

Where I live matters little to the overarching sentiment that we need better public transit in the region and SMART/DDOT partnerships are a good thing.

So, you don't live in Detroit, but I, who happen to have lived in Detroit for 57 years, and cover just about every section of the City @ least twice a week, am anacedotal, because you think I "saw a bus last week with 3 people on it"? Yet I'm supposed to buy into your public transportation emotionally charged logic, and cough up more tax money because you don't want to be alone? Try car pooling, call Uber or Lyft, see what they charge. This way I can have my car and don't have to susidize your transportation, and you can have a direct ride to and from wherever it is you're going. Don't be a burden on others. Learn to take care of yourself.

No, I don't really care to. I don't really care for my commute and the time I've wasted alone because of my unique commute. I don't really care that my car depreciates in value every time I drive it. I don't really care for our high insurance rates. Or the monthly car payment. Or the yearly tabs payment and inevitable insurance hikes. I don't really care for the $150 yearly I spend on oil changes. Or the probably $3,000-5000 extra I will spend over its life for other maintenance. And I don't care for any future emotional toll that may happen should I get into a nasty accident because that's how life goes sometimes.

[dtowncitylover]

So, you don't live in Detroit, but I, who happen to have lived in Detroit for 57 years, and cover just about every section of the City @ least twice a week, am anacedotal because you think I "saw a bus last week with 3 people on it"? Yet I'm supposed to buy into your public transportation emotionally charged logic, and cough up more tax money because you don't want to be alone? Try car pooling, call Uber or Lyft, see what they charge. This way I can have my car and don't have to susidize your transportation, and you can have a direct ride to and from wherever you're going. Don't be a burden on others.

Or you could go live in the middle of nowhere UP if you don't like living in a society that much.

You still don't seem to understand that your car-centric lifestyle choices are subsidized many more times over than transit subsidies. But please, tell me more about how much we're hurting your car feelings. Your car tears are extra salty today. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!

It's funny, I'm not telling you you have to take transit. Yet here you are telling bus riders to buy a car or else [[they can't get to work? doctor's? library? school? how's that economy going to work? think everyone can simply pay the $7-30 dollars for a Lyft ride?) I'm just saying we need our levels of transit spending on par with road and highway spending and we need our funding mechanisms for transit changed to sales taxes, which is going to be a feat in and of itself.

You are also a burden on others.

[Honky Tonk]

Or you could go live in the middle of nowhere UP if you don't like living in a society that much.

Clutching @ straws much, are we? Don't forget, I live here and you don't. I pay City taxes so we have a General Fund. Auto owners pay taxes @ the pump, [[which originally was set up to apply those to road repair, but now go into the "General Fund" abyss) pay for registration, pay for plates, [[both have been raised to fund road repair recently). On top of that, I pay taxes on the purchase of the vehicle. So please, tell me how I'm being susidized? Because they're "Federal Funds"? We already went through that.

[Meddle]

But please, tell me more how cars are "independence".

I remember waking up early one Saturday morning wondering what to do for the day. Spur of the moment, I hopped in the car and headed west. Ended up in Grand Haven, a place I'd never been. Wandered around the docks on the shore of Lake Michigan visiting a few of the craft shops. Bought a few things including a painting. Loaded them back in the car and headed north. I don't remember now exactly where else I went, but I was back home late Sunday afternoon.

How ya' gonna do that when you rely on government busses, eh?

[dtowncitylover]

Clutching @ straws much, are we? Don't forget, I live here and you don't. I pay City taxes so we have a General Fund. Auto owners pay taxes @ the pump, [[which originally was set up to apply those to road repair, but now go into the "General Fund" abyss) pay for registration, pay for plates, [[both have been raised to fund road repair recently). On top of that, I pay taxes on the purchase of the vehicle. So please, tell me how I'm being susidized? Because they're "Federal Funds"? We already went through that.

I don't care where you live. We're talking about regional transit and SMART and DDOT's noble efforts to collaborate on issues like fare collecting and streamlining it to make it easier to ride both systems. Thank God.

Again, I don't care that you drive. You only seem to care about yourself, though.

And some of those taxes go toward MDOT's preference for car-centric development and sprawl and continued investments for roads and highways. Therefore, you continue to be burden on us because we have to keep maintaining the roads and highways you drive on.

[dtowncitylover]

I remember waking up early one Saturday morning wondering what to do for the day. Spur of the moment, I hopped in the car and headed west. Ended up in Grand Haven, a place I'd never been. Wandered around the docks on the shore of Lake Michigan visiting a few of the craft shops. Bought a few things including a painting. Loaded them back in the car and headed north. I don't remember now exactly where else I went, but I was back home late Sunday afternoon.

How ya' gonna do that when you rely on government busses, eh?

Good for you. I don't care about your anecdotal story about being spontaneous with a car. I could just as easily rent one. It adds nothing to this debate. I could've just as easily taken the bus to Belle Isle. In fact one of my favorite comments I saw on line was "I love road trips, I just hate commuting."

[Meddle]

^^ I could also hop in my car at whatever times I wanted to beat traffic and run down to the US Courthouse for my day. Sometimes I was there not long after 6AM. Other times it was later.

Then if I wanted to take off after work and go to Fairlane or wherever else, I could without having to wait for a bus to go home, then get my car and go shopping. Or if I wanted to take off early for some reason, I could do that without having to wait for a bus.