Thou MUST work for food assistance

[O3H]

Able-bodied people aged 18 - 49 will have 3 months to find a job - or lose their benefits in Michigan. October 1, 2018 start. The job market improved, so government forced Michigan to comply.

[SammyS]

Makes total sense to me.

[Danny]

The big problem is most people from 18 to 49 are either mentally ill, personal injury, incompetent, and can not to find decent job due to their criminal background or bad rep. Welfare organizations and other protestors will fight tooth and nail to the Highest court in the nation.

Watch out.

Here comes the great purge!!!

[Bigb23]

Our government acts like we live in a Scandinavian socialist utopia where there are living wage jobs aplenty for those who need them, and social
programs for those that need more help.

We will never be anywhere close to a society like that in our lifetimes here in America.

[Shai_Hulud]

Why is the age requirement so low?

I know plenty of people 60+ working full time to support themselves.

It couldn't be because the people who support these things want them applied to other people, could it?

[Honky Tonk]

"Will work for food" why not? Not everyone was born with rocket scientist skills. There are plenty of things that need to be done, that people could be doing for government assistance. Some do have mental and physical restrictions, but a lot just never had the training to be productive.

[Meddle]

There are plenty of things that need to be done, that people could be doing for government assistance.

AFSCME says otherwise.


I predict a rise in supermarket shoplifting.

[Honky Tonk]

AFSCME says otherwise.

You're probably right, just keep handing out freebies and raising taxes. "But we've always done it this way".

[Richard]

The big problem is most people from 18 to 49 are either mentally ill, personal injury, incompetent, and can not to find decent job due to their criminal background or bad rep. Welfare organizations and other protestors will fight tooth and nail to the Highest court in the nation.

Watch out.

Here comes the great purge!!!

Many states implemented this two years ago,key word is ,able bodied,so most of the cases you listed are exempt anyways.

Fla is 18 to 45,if you provide 20 hours per month with a non profit you can be exempt.

Keep in mind that collecting cans from a dumpster for scrap is considered a source of self employed income and a job,nobody checks or verifies.

It sounds good in the papers,there are a million ways around it,which is probably why nobody has raised a fuss about it.

[EastsideAl]

This seems so bizarrely backwards to me [[but then so much of the way Republicans think seems upside down to me). Isn't it the people who can't find a job, or are unable to work for some reason, who need food aid the most? How do people think this is going to turn out; that they will somehow turn magically turn poor people into working class consumers under the threat of starvation? Or are they just relishing punishing the "undeserving" poor even more [[and especially THOSE people) so they can feel more superior to them? Maybe hoping that this will finally starve out a lot of those n----rs they hate anyway? And damn the consequences that befall people and neighborhoods in places like Detroit where jobs of any type don't exactly grow on trees.

[Meddle]

You're probably right, just keep handing out freebies and raising taxes. "But we've always done it this way".

Not really. There used to be such a thing as the Works Progress Administration that did more or less what you advocate ... put people to work and train them with skills for future work.

I seriously doubt the unions would allow anything like that now, at least not without a fight.

[Crystal]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does receiving food assistance work now? Does the recipient have to give a reason why they need assistance? If they are able to work, but are not working, do they still receive assistance?

[CassTechGrad]

Our government acts like we live in a Scandinavian socialist utopia where there are living wage jobs aplenty for those who need them, and social
programs for those that need more help.

We will never be anywhere close to a society like that in our lifetimes here in America.

Some would consider this reference to Scandinavia being a utopia as a racist statement. It implies that countries where the population is almost 100% racially white should be used as the model to strive for. No racial diversity but a great place to live! How can that be????

[Richard]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does receiving food assistance work now? Does the recipient have to give a reason why they need assistance? If they are able to work, but are not working, do they still receive assistance?

It is income and family size based,if you make under a certain level you can qualify,minimum poverty level.

For instance if one works a low wage job,such as Wal Mart they could qualify.

Paid through the states,backed by the federal government.

For instance a single person in Fl under employed or unemployed can receive the maximum of $186 per month,they have excess to all of your records and you have to fill out assets and liability’s.

The work requirements fiirst started 4 years ago in some other states in order to weed out the fraud aspect,of one has a legitimate reason for receiving them they do,unlike how it was years ago,nobody really gets left behind and each case is followed up with a private phone or personal interview.

If one is able to work but is not then they discuss the reasons in the interview,if you cannot find a job then you cannot find one,but they just want to see at a bare minimum that you are making an effort.180 days renewal period.

The whole concept of the safety net was to help people get back on their feet as a temporary basis,I would agree that it needs to be mixed with training and making situations for people to keep a leg up and many states do have training programs,some people just do not take advantage of them.

Its been used as a means to an end when it should not be.

[Jason]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does receiving food assistance work now? Does the recipient have to give a reason why they need assistance? If they are able to work, but are not working, do they still receive assistance?

For the Food Assistance Program, you need to have a low income, and assets less than $5,000. There's also rules about the household size and things like that. But basically you have to be completely broke in order to qualify. If you have retirement accounts, life insurance, ANYTHING, you need to burn through it. If you own anything remotely valuable you have to burn through it. Your total assets need to be under $5,000. Currently for working, there are exemptions, but you're not allowed to quit a 30 hour job or reduce hours below that or refuse a job offer or refuse to participate in required government employment programs [[I believe these are things like resume writing workshops and job fairs).

Medicaid is easier to qualify for, but you still need to have practically nothing. If you're single and work a full time minimum wage job, you don't qualify for Medicaid. You'd still qualify for ACA marketplace subsidies, but not Medicaid.

All in all, welfare is a complex maze of programs, practically all of them have very narrow and strict requirements, and stiff penalties if you make a mistake somewhere in the bureaucracy. Most of the programs don't pay out much in benefits. If you qualify for these programs you need to be wallowing in poverty, and the benefits are enough that you don't die, but aren't enough to give you a stable foundation to get your life back together either. People who think that welfare needs to be clamped down really have no idea how the system currently works.


With the work requirements in particular, I think everyone agrees that ideally everyone who can work works. And everyone on welfare would much rather be working a stable well paying job [[if someone says they don't want to work, imo that's either a defense mechanism for the shame/stigma of poverty, or mental health issues, or both). But what do you do with the people who are unemployable? Employers are going to hire the best applicants, and there's always going to be someone at the bottom of the pile. And if you're at the bottom of the pile for one position you're going to be at the bottom of the pile for a whole lot more. The options are either:

1. Compel employers to hire undesirable applicants.
2. Have the government perform compulsory life interventions. "Pack your bags, the bus/police are picking you up and you're spending the next year or two at a government training camp".
3. Let thousands and thousands of people descend into permanent poverty/homelessness/death.
4. Let them say on welfare.

1 and 2 are philosophically disagreeable and probably illegal. 3 is not in society's interests and is immoral.

[Richard]

^ you can own a home and have assets and still collect,maybe Michigan has different state requirements outside of the fed rules but what is the difference between paying rent or a mortgage?

Disabilty you cannot have assets,but plenty own homes and even drive really nice cars while collecting food stamps.

They add up your bills and compare it to your income,there is a realistic side of it where if you own a million dollar home and drive a Lamborghini it will be questioned in the interview.

Students,families that were once considered middle class but not anymore,the ones that qualify are not the block of cheese wik of days gone by.

A lot of that has deeper issues like the change over to a service economy versus a manufacturing,but as long as people keep looking for the cheapest way of life then,demand for services will increase.We are kinda creating the poverty while trying to eliminate it.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,588...510---,00.html

The work requirements are for single people without families.


Eligibility

• Eligibility is based on the financial situation of all members in a household. Everyone who lives together and purchases and prepares food together is considered a member of the same household group. In general, we will review your expenses, assets, and income to determine what, if any, benefits for which you may be eligible. For questions about the Food Assistance Program, call 855-275-6424.

• Expenses	Asset Limits
  Some household expenses are taken into account when determining your benefit amount. Examples of some of these expenses include: Shelter [[rent, mortgage, heat, electric, water, telephone, etc.). Court-ordered or legally obligated child support payments. Dependent care expenses. Medical [[medical and dental care, hospitalization or nursing care, medical supplies, health insurance premiums etc.) for certain members who have a disability or are at least 60 years old.	The food asset limit is $5,000. Assets are cash or any property you own. Examples of assets are: Cash on hand. Checking and savings accounts. Investments. Some trusts. Property or real estate [[excludes first home). Vehicle [[one household vehicle will not be counted).
  Income	Residency Requirements
  Most earned and unearned income is counted. Income is considered when determining the amount of food assistance you are eligible to receive. Examples of countable income are: Wages. Self-employment earnings. Rental income. Social Security benefits.Investments.

• Some trusts.
• Property or real estate [[excludes first home).
• Vehicle [[one household vehicle will not be counted).

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,588...691---,00.html

[Wesley Mouch]

...
...snip...People who think that welfare needs to be clamped down really have no idea how the system currently works.
...

Lots of truth in that statement.

While UBI has problems, what it does have in its favor is simplicity. Taxable Universal Basic Income to everyone is simplicity.

The alphabet soup of overlapping programs with ridgid income and asset cliffs is just stupid.

[Meddle]

^^ Not to mention the resources needed to oversee and manage it all.

[Bigdd]

This seems so bizarrely backwards to me [[but then so much of the way Republicans think seems upside down to me). Isn't it the people who can't find a job, or are unable to work for some reason, who need food aid the most?

But it's NOT that people CAN'T find a job,.. it's that they don't want to work [[their fault, not mine),.. have a criminal record [[their fault, not mine), don't have an education [[theirs and their parent's fault,.. not mine) etc, etc.

Why should I and others who worked hard in school and worked VERY had for decades have to support them? They should go hungry, or be supported by their parents.

The left has CAUSED this problem intentionally. Creating suffering to gain voters [[VERY cruel). THAT is something I won't ever understand.

[O3H]

People get laid off, contracts get yanked, business cycles fluctuate, etc.
Getting thrown in the unemployment line is not always "fair".
Prejudice, ageism, and a slew of other items are very real.

Work is something people do - it does NOT have to define who you are.

[Meddle]

There are places where there simply are no jobs. Or less jobs than people of working age.

And even if people do find jobs, the pay and hours may not be enough to live on. Basic things like water/sewer and electric have doubled in many areas in the last 15 years. And gasoline? $7.50/hr and 20 hours a week doesn't pay for a lot these days.

Many [[maybe too many) employers are even doing credit checks now before hiring. If you've been having trouble and have less than a stellar credit history, you may get passed over even if you're the best candidate physically and in other areas.

'Get an education! Go to college!!'


Who's gonna pay for it? And if you don't have the smarts, having barely eeked your way through high school, colleges won't even read your application.

[RaumVogel]

There are places where there simply are no jobs. Or less jobs than people of working age.

And even if people do find jobs, the pay and hours may not be enough to live on. Basic things like water/sewer and electric have doubled in many areas in the last 15 years. And gasoline? $7.50/hr and 20 hours a week doesn't pay for a lot these days.

Many [[maybe too many) employers are even doing credit checks now before hiring. If you've been having trouble and have less than a stellar credit history, you may get passed over even if you're the best candidate physically and in other areas.

'Get an education! Go to college!!'


Who's gonna pay for it? And if you don't have the smarts, having barely eeked your way through high school, colleges won't even read your application.

People shouldn't believe the BS lies spewed by the powers that be.There are MILLIONS of young people with college debt that can't pay it off because there are no jobs in the vocation they studied for.Walmart and McD's are over flowing with workers waiting to make enough to start to pay off their student loans.

[Bigb23]

Some would consider this reference to Scandinavia being a utopia as a racist statement. It implies that countries where the population is almost 100% racially white should be used as the model to strive for. No
racial diversity but a great place to live! How can that be????

9.2% of Sweden's

total

population was born in a non-European country--a higher percentage than in most other European countries. Overall,

15.4% of Sweden's total population

was born in a different country.

20% of the Swedish population

is foreign-born or Swedish-born to foreign-born parents; in some neighborhoods, over 80% of the population is foreign-born or Swedish-born to foreign-born parents. Compare these numbers to those of the United States--the land of immigrants, and, in Gasman's words, a "hugely diverse" nation:

just 12.9%

of the population is foreign born from

any

country of origin.

persistenceofpoverty.blogspot.com/2014/07/just-how-culturallyethnically.html

[renf]

Should there be a similar work requirement for able bodied seniors who are now collecting more in Social Security payments than they paid into the Social Security system? There are now very many healthy seniors who could work 30 hours a week.

[Honky Tonk]

Should there be a similar work requirement for able bodied seniors who are now collecting more in Social Security payments than they paid into the Social Security system? There are now very many healthy seniors who could work 30 hours a week.

Brilliant post and right as rain! Fuck those seniors who put in 33 + years of their lives paying taxes and into the SS system.