NY Governor Andrew Cuomo: America was never that great

[Zacha341]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/polit...eat/index.html

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/176980...-york-governor

Comments? Thoughts? I get the animus towards and concern re. many of president Trump policies, behaviors and the whole MAGA thing. However, are we not crash landing the plane beyond the runway here?

What audience/ target do you think governor Andrew Cuomo [[an immigrants son) is reaching, directly or indirectly thru his statement?

[TKshreve]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/polit...eat/index.html

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/16/176980...-york-governor

Comments? Thoughts? I get the animus towards and concern re. many of president Trump policies, behaviors and the whole MAGA thing. However, are we not crash landing the plane beyond the runway here?

What audience/ target do you think governor Andrew Cuomo [[an immigrants son) is reaching, directly or indirectly thru his statement?

Full Quote here:

"We're not going to make America great again. It was never that great," Cuomo, a Democrat, remarked at a bill signing event in New York City. The comment was met by an audible reaction from the crowd.His comments were a response to President Donald Trump's campaign catchphrase -- "Make America Great Again."


"We have not reached greatness. We will reach greatness when every American is fully engaged," Cuomo added. "We will reach greatness when discrimination and stereotyping of women, 51% of our population, is gone, and every woman's full potential is realized and unleashed and every woman is making her full contribution."

Help to actually list what he said in full, instead of what Trump would like you to think he said.

[Zacha341]

Excuse me, but A. I'm not a Trump person [[dem or repub), didn't vote for him B. I submitted two links re. what Cuomo said C. I did not prevent anyone from deeper exploration as to what was said D. Neither Vox or CNN are alt-right, right wing news sources.

Thank you for your your added contribution, in re-quote format [[as it appears in the link I provided).

So what do you think about it?

[oladub]

It would have been interesting to have asked Gov. Cuomo which countries in history were "great" or at least greater than the US ever was and why. If he is defining greatness as cup half full, we can all agree that the US could be greater. If he doesn't think our e.g. average standard of living, Constitution, productivity, science, landing on the moon for heaven's sake was relatively great, which nations or empires, and when, were greater? Without that information, a place to start would be to look at NY since Cuomo became governor to get a glimpse of how Cuomo, as Governor made NY greater. NY has the highest taxes in the nation. For all that taxation, NY ranks a mediocre 31st of 50 in K-12 education but a very respectable 5th of 50 in life expectancy. Gov. Cuomo promotes identity politics. NY is losing population at a faster rate than any other state. Some people are voting with their feet. However, those who choose to stay overwhelmingly favor Cuomo according to the Vox article. I wonder if the women who fled NY thought they could have a better life elsewhere and, if so, why.

Referencing your OP, I'm an immigrant's son too and my mother had immigrant parents but I find Cuomo's governance to be pandering. I wonder why more people who agree with Cuomo living in red states don't move to New York.

[Bong-Man]

The statement, "Make America Great Again" is nothing but a political slogan that panders to old white people. These are the same folks who claim President Obama was the worst thing to happen to race relations, that a women's main role is in the home and shouldn't be allowed to hold political office. We were all better off with Jesus in the all-white classroom, science is bad, any music featuring a sub-woofer should be banned, and minorities should play in their own league [[don't fool yourselves...most of these anthem protesters haven't watched the NFL in 30 years for that very reason). Stand for country, kneel for Jesus.

The same people selectively forget about 90% tax rates, nasty-ass nuns & molesting preachers, Jim Crow laws, crooked & unsupervised police, cooking with lard, and a limited access media that lied as much then as now....maybe more. Again, it's tough to keep up on scientific breakthroughs when their last exposure was a barely passed 9th grade earth science class in 1970. Science is bad, God is good, now pass the potatoes !

For what it's worth, I happen to agree with him. However telling the truth won't get you far in politics these days.

[Honky Tonk]

The statement, "Make America Great Again" is nothing but a political slogan that panders to old white people. These are the same folks who claim President Obama was the worst thing to happen to race relations, that a women's main role is in the home and shouldn't be allowed to hold political office. We were all better off with Jesus in the all-white classroom, science is bad, any music featuring a sub-woofer should be banned, and minorities should play in their own league [[don't fool yourselves...most of these anthem protesters haven't watched the NFL in 30 years for that very reason). Stand for country, kneel for Jesus.

The same people selectively forget about 90% tax rates, nasty-ass nuns & molesting preachers, Jim Crow laws, crooked & unsupervised police, cooking with lard, and a limited access media that lied as much then as now....maybe more. Again, it's tough to keep up on scientific breakthroughs when their last exposure was a barely passed 9th grade earth science class in 1970. Science is bad, God is good, now pass the potatoes !

For what it's worth, I happen to agree with him. However telling the truth won't get you far in politics these days.

Yeah, I guess that accounts for the thousands @ our borders trying every other which way to gain entry. Can you image if we were a good country?

[Bong-Man]

Yeah, I guess that accounts for the thousands @ our borders trying every other which way to gain entry. Can you image if we were a good country?

No weed shot ?.....you're slipping.

I never said we were good or bad....you did. Andrew and I agree we were never great, but always strive to be. Just because you're good doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be better. I'm sure that was Andrew's point, though it will be tossed, juggled, and lost in twits and various conspiracy websites as treasonous thought.

[Honky Tonk]

No weed shot ?.....you're slipping.

I never said we were good or bad....you did. Andrew and I agree we were never great, but always strive to be. Just because you're good doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be better. I'm sure that was Andrew's point, though it will be tossed, juggled, and lost in twits and various conspiracy websites as treasonous thought.

I realize smoking narrows the attention span and causes forgetfulness, but please re-read your scathing critique of the USA. In case you don't remember, it's post #7, under the heading "Bong-Man".

[Richard]

The statement, "Make America Great Again" is nothing but a political slogan that panders to old white people. These are the same folks who claim President Obama was the worst thing to happen to race relations, that a women's main role is in the home and shouldn't be allowed to hold political office. We were all better off with Jesus in the all-white classroom, science is bad, any music featuring a sub-woofer should be banned, and minorities should play in their own league [[don't fool yourselves...most of these anthem protesters haven't watched the NFL in 30 years for that very reason). Stand for country, kneel for Jesus.

The same people selectively forget about 90% tax rates, nasty-ass nuns & molesting preachers, Jim Crow laws, crooked & unsupervised police, cooking with lard, and a limited access media that lied as much then as now....maybe more. Again, it's tough to keep up on scientific breakthroughs when their last exposure was a barely passed 9th grade earth science class in 1970. Science is bad, God is good, now pass the potatoes !

For what it's worth, I happen to agree with him. However telling the truth won't get you far in politics these days.

What is wrong with cooking with lard?

His family is 3 generations of being at the top of New York politics,what exactly have they done to make America great again?

He was just sucking up to the 53% women vote,and what if women like being in the kitchen,they need to be forced into the work place because he knows what is best for them?

The border signs read enter and exit,he should pick one and be a part of the solution,you would figure after 3 generations in politics and they have not changed anything,maybe it's time to pick the exit.

[Richard]

Excuse me, but A. I'm not a Trump person [[dem or repub), didn't vote for him B. I submitted two links re. what Cuomo said C. I did not prevent anyone from deeper exploration as to what was said D. Neither Vox or CNN are alt-right, right wing news sources.

Thank you for your your added contribution, in re-quote format [[as it appears in the link I provided).

So what do you think about it?

You just have to except the fact that until you place a full page add in the Freep denouncing President Trump and a letter from the pope stating that you have atoned for your sins of not speaking negatively of the current president,you will always just be another deplorable in the eyes of the Internet justice league.

Some are just like the priest protrays in the Game Of Thrones,until he got baked anyways.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHOnueVUDI

Caution contains situations that some may find offensive and or nudity,please do not click on if one is offended by such.

[oladub]

Bong-man, Stereotype much? What do you have against potatoes? Why did potatoes get into your imaginary list? Are they too white inside? Then use red or yellow potatoes. Which other demographic groups that you prefer don't eat french fries? Rx: Try some potato recipes.

A couple of potato related anecdotes:
1. My grandmother told me of one winter when her family half starved in the old country. They raised potatoes as a starch to get them through the winters. One fall, it rained continually and the potatoes had to be harvested and stored wet in the cellar. So her family subsisted on moldy potatoes that winter but survived.
2. Travelling through Georgia, I once bought a bag of the most awesome potato chips I've ever eaten. Curious, I read the label. They had been fried in lard. Yum!

[Bong-Man]

What is wrong with cooking with lard?

Unless you're trying to recreate your dead grandma's pie crust you remember as a child...EVERYTHING !

By the way, you spelled 'currently' correctly....and now it just seems weird.

I'm sure Dr. King thought America was already a good place when he wrote the "I Have a Dream" speech. That didn't stop him from dreaming of a better America for his children and future generations.

[Honky Tonk]

Unless you're trying to recreate your dead grandma's pie crust you remember as a child...EVERYTHING !

By the way, you spelled 'currently' correctly....and now it just seems weird.

I'm sure Dr. King thought America was already a good place when he wrote the "I Have a Dream" speech. That didn't stop him from dreaming of a better America for his children and future generations.

Dr. King didn't write up the country as a POS, then backpedal that he was only trying to make it better. If you're going to compare yourself to, or hide behind Dr. King, then do it the way the man did it.

[Bong-Man]

Dr. King didn't write up the country as a POS, then backpedal that he was only trying to make it better. If you're going to compare yourself to, or hide behind Dr. King, then do it the way the man did it.

Sorry...you've lost me. Where did I or Cuomo refer to America as a pos ?
As for Dr. King, I'll reference and quote any American historical figure I choose, and I don't have to take a headshot from an idiot to do it. If your pos comment was for Cuomo's mere criticism, well welcome to the fascist dictatorship you clearly desire.

[Bong-Man]

Bong-man, Stereotype much? What do you have against potatoes? Why did potatoes get into your imaginary list? Are they too white inside? Then use red or yellow potatoes. Which other demographic groups that you prefer don't eat french fries? Rx: Try some potato recipes.

A couple of potato related anecdotes:
1. My grandmother told me of one winter when her family half starved in the old country. They raised potatoes as a starch to get them through the winters. One fall, it rained continually and the potatoes had to be harvested and stored wet in the cellar. So her family subsisted on moldy potatoes that winter but survived.
2. Travelling through Georgia, I once bought a bag of the most awesome potato chips I've ever eaten. Curious, I read the label. They had been fried in lard. Yum!

Hmmm...Since I'm pretty much here because of the Irish potato famine, I think I'll back off on this one. And I don't mean to stereotype again, but it might be time to throw away that jar of bacon grease you've been meticulously saving under the sink all these years.

[Meddle]

American History is filled with things like Sand Creek and My Lai, so, ya' know, he ain't exactly wrong.

[Richard]

Unless you're trying to recreate your dead grandma's pie crust you remember as a child...EVERYTHING !

By the way, you spelled 'currently' correctly....and now it just seems weird.

I'm sure Dr. King thought America was already a good place when he wrote the "I Have a Dream" speech. That didn't stop him from dreaming of a better America for his children and future generations.

Why do you have to be sexist with only the grandmas being capable of making homemade pies?

I took home ec in school,it was fun,I was the only guy with 15 girls and I am sure much to your delight we even managed to make some hash brownies on the sly while we were at it,I can make my own from scratch homemade pies useing lard.

You can use all of the chemical based cooking oil all you want,and eat all of the roundup based oatmeal and cereal you want,I will stick with lard and cigarettes which is much safer.

I do agree with you though,America is great,a constant work in progress to make it better for everybody but still one of the greatest countries that people are still risking their lives for an opportunity that many take for granted.

But like grandma used to say,do not like it,there is the door and do not let it hit you where the good lord split you on your way out.

[Zacha341]

No country is great in the absolute, perfect, so to speak. When judging a countries greatness the 'compared-to-what?' factor emerges. Specifically averaging factors such as economy, systems of governance, social stratus, policy, etc against other countries and nations. SO, there are many ways Cuomo's comment can be read; but mostly not good.

Specifically not good for him as it's turning out -- he's starting to back-track:

During a conference call with reporters Friday, Cuomo dialed it back, saying he does not, in fact, question the country's greatness."The expression I used the other day was inartful, so I want to be very clear," Cuomo said. "Of course America is great and of course America has always been great. No one questions that."

He continued: "As you know, my family is evidence of American greatness. My grandparents came to this country as poor immigrants and their son became governor and his son became governor. That's never been a question."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...always-n901656

[Canadian Visitor]

The Cuomo statement was factual; but bad politics.

He was taking a shot at Trump, obviously, but also at American exceptionalism and nostalgia.

The United States is a great place, and particularly better off than many nations to its south, especially in central America and portions of the Caribbean.

What it is not is place that will be any better by appealing to nostalgia.

What it is not is the best place to live in the world by any reasonable measure.

We could have fun deciding what measures to use and how to weight them, but if you simply ask about life expectancy, infant mortality, median household income, social mobility, rates of post-secondary education, level of violent crime, economic freedoms, political freedoms or press freedoms, the US is not a top 5 finisher in any category.

That's the important notion in Cuomo's statement.

Also implicit is that the United States of 30 years ago was putting in place the policy ideals that allowed it to slip backwards in so many of these areas. That's the failure in Trump'ism.

The United States has achieved great things and can achieve greater still.

But it must abandon backwards looking people, and accommodation of the ignorant.

[Zacha341]

Oh darn, the unyielding persecution! ----

Withstanding the fact that I'm not saying good things about our current POTUS either. What's annoying and unwise in this case is a. Cuomo taking a jab at Trump thru his comment, and b. Trump responding so petty as he always does.

Dudes go duke it out in a boxing ring, but putting down the country to 'send a message...'. Uhm, really? We're not talking about my country right-or-wrong etc. worship here. But you can't be a politician and expect a comment like that not to hurt you as a quotable future forward.

And we see now Cuomo's in full damage control mode behind his comments.

You just have to except the fact that until you place a full page add in the Freep denouncing President Trump and a letter from the pope stating that you have atoned for your sins of not speaking negatively of the current president,you will always just be another deplorable in the eyes of the Internet justice league.

[oladub]

What it is not is place that will be any better by appealing to nostalgia.

What it is not is the best place to live in the world by any reasonable measure.

We could have fun deciding what measures to use and how to weight them, but if you simply ask about life expectancy, infant mortality, median household income, social mobility, rates of post-secondary education, level of violent crime, economic freedoms, political freedoms or press freedoms, the US is not a top 5 finisher in any category.

That's the important notion in Cuomo's statement.

Also implicit is that the United States of 30 years ago was putting in place the policy ideals that allowed it to slip backwards in so many of these areas. That's the failure in Trump'ism.

I'm interested in you expanding on your last paragraph. What policies, etc..? I would say that serious slippage began under Woodrow Wilson's nods to corporatism and was expanded under FDR's combined corporatism and undermining of the Constitution but I would like your take on whatever happened 30 years ago. Also, why do you think U.S. press freedom misses the mark? I have some ideas about that but they would probably apply to most other western countries.

[Bham1982]

Cuomo was correct, but it was extremely stupid for a politician to speak the truth on this matter.

Especially as a potential future Presidential candidate, and especially as a progressive, you don't want to give the appearance of announcing the U.S. is less than perfect, as it will be seized by others as evidence of lack of patriotism.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Then on the other hand if he felt that way let it be told/ bold. I always suspect the shadow intentions based what politicians do, DESPITE their parsing and rhetoric.

But consequences remain. And doubling back is always harder.

[Richard]

Yea but that was 3 generations of high level politics experience talking,he did not say it without weighing the ramifications beforehand,it gave him shock value and international media coverage.

The experts are saying it will hurt him in the long run but concidering the attention span of the public as of late,whose to say come 3 monthes down the road.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I hear you, it could bow just that way. I don't like the fallout though.