Residents don't want restaurant at Corktown fire station

[canuck]

Well Gwen, I wasn't talking about Richard's irony, though I sympathize with his point of view, I think he is right about the reuse of the building. he is also right about the value to the neighborhood. The parking thing is a non issue. Every single week in the summer, I see a bunch of cars parked with Ontario, Ma, Vt, Ny, Ct, Pa plates on my street, I never had a problem parking because of that. There are restaurant strips on Notre-Dame close to here which didn't exist 25 years ago. It,s more than just food culture, it's about more conviviality on a street that only had laundromats, taverns, boxing gyms, 5 and 10cent stores, hot dog stands and pool halls. It was rough and ugly. An abandoned furniture store that had been covered in corrugated steel was recently stripped to reveal nice brickwork. Last year some anarchists vandalized businesses on the strip to protest against gentrification.

I think that anyone who is ready to take risks opening a risky business and puts their heart into it should have a chance. The neighbors save a valuable building, the attractiveness of the area is enhanced. The proximity to a higher level of food offer, maybe some patio-deck thing happening on the sidewalk. You have to trust people a bit more and let them let their hair down to a comfortable level. Civilization is about small things, increments, and that is how the human cosmos operates. Trust. Social contract.

[archfan]

I can put a strip club in there,as a fire station it may still have the pole.
...

I don't care who you are, that was funny [[as Larry the Cable Guy says).

[canuck]

No more poles in no fire stations left in no Poletown, ass for sure.

[Honky Tonk]

No more poles in no fire stations left in no Poletown, ass for sure.

I agree with the "ass for sure" part.

[canuck]

I agree with the "ass for sure" part.

Yup. Me too

[ABetterDetroit]

Many of you consistently decry the lack of involvement and care given by us Detroiters to our surroundings. But as soon as the ones that do engage don't agree with whatever you think the outcomes should be, we are NIMBYs and "too good." You don't get to have it both ways, either people take possession of their community or they don't.

You nailed the hypocrisy. “Our communities are good because the people are involved”. As soon as it’s someone else’s community that they have never ever been to then it’s “fuck what they think there, they need to apply this ideology in every situation because it’s perfect and never wrong!”

For some odd reason that ideology often involves someone getting screwed in the far away community. In this case, it would be the homeowners 100 feet away from a zoning change that would allow a bar and restaurant to operate on their street. Bars and restaurants change branding, hours and food specials quickly to adjust to the market. What’s ‘upscale’ today can be gone tomorrow. That is why zoning laws exist in the first place.

[Richard]

In this thread about AirBNB it would seem as though the neighbors have no problem with bending the zoning laws.


https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...ghlight=Airbnb

Read the opening post carefully.


In Florida there is a big building boom with subdivisions going in by the thousands across the state,cute little subdivisions filled with people driving around on golf carts with tape measure in hand to make sure everybody cuts their grass at the proper height,you cannot park your truck in the drive way,if you do not immediately put up your trash can after they dump it,you get a nasty note on the door.

The HOA is more powerful then the local law,do not pay your fees and they can take your house with little recourse,if the bank wants the house they have to pay the fees.

Even the regular non HOA subdivisions are like living in little dictatorships,where did all of those people come from?

This case is about a little fire house and adaptive reuse that benefits the community as a whole and not just a connected few.

Corktown may be a special place now,because in the past it might have been an island in a sea of decay,but look around at what is happening in the big picture its days are numbered,it will soon have to compete with new projects,with new layouts that will be already planned so these things do not happen.

You know what they say,adapt or be left behind.

In the past history was there not neighborhood bars,restaurants,bakeries and more in Detroit?

How did the residents ever survive the turmoil that these cause,and how do they survive in pretty much every other city in the country?

It is not like it is reinventing the wheel.

[Honky Tonk]

Corktown may be a special place now,because in the past it might have been an island in a sea of decay,but look around at what is happening in the big picture its days are numbered,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a very informed post. You can see all that from 2200 miles away. You must be one of Dionne Warwick's psychotic friends. Why don't you take some time time morning and check your pool for alligators, Richard?

[Richard]

That would be 1071 miles and with no pool nothing to check for,if by chance a gator meandered in the property it would become dinner and a few belts and purses at best,odds of that even happing are pretty slim.

Do not have a problem looking the other way with zoning when it come to AirBnB which brings strangers and extra parking consumption but have a problem with another business that uses valet akin to a ubur drop off.

There was a thread where it was already determined that people do not like to walk a block,so in order to have valet,odds are it was not intended to be a $5 hamburger joint.

[Honky Tonk]

That would be 1071 miles and with no pool nothing to check for,if by chance a gator meandered in the property it would become dinner and a few belts and purses at best,odds of that even happing are pretty slim.

Do not have a problem looking the other way with zoning when it come to AirBnB which brings strangers and extra parking consumption but have a problem with another business that uses valet akin to a ubur drop off.

There was a thread where it was already determined that people do not like to walk a block,so in order to have valet,odds are it was not intended to be a $5 hamburger joint.

Does AirBnB stay open until 2:30 a.m.? Does AirBnB require "21 to 31" parking spaces, with valet guys running around the neighborhood, slamming car doors, taking up parking spaces, congesting traffic 5-6 nights a week? Does AirBnB have delivery trucks dropping off food stuff, varieties of alcohol, linnen service, all day, Richard? If the answer is "no" to the questions, then why throw in AirBnB into the discussion? You're talking apples and oranges here.

[Richard]

You are making this about me and AirBnB.

The AirBnB example was in reference to the neighborhoods view on the application of zoning laws,How and when they apply.

The proposed restaurant was going to use valet,so no parking spots used in the neighborhood.Non issue.

AirBnB requires parking spots in the neighborhood and unless there is a curfew imposed of the guests then yes they can come back at 2 am.

Most small independent restrauants do not get deliveries like franchises,at most it would be no different traffic then a UPS delivery.

Deliveries all day everyday is dramatic and creating situations that do not exist,valet guys running around the neighborhood?

Look at the orientation of the valet lots,there are 6 properties that are on that block that may or may not be directly impacted.

The three things that the neighborhood addressed were also addressed by the potential use,so there is no reasonable argument against it.

That is like opposing a strip club useing the argument that the women will be running around the neighborhood topless.

The city has bills to pay and they do not get paid by a couple of people coming up with non legitimate reasons in order to stop revenue generation.

They recieved the apartments that they were looking for and the potential new business offered solutions in order to lessen the impact of the neighborhood.

How exactly does it impact the neighborhood when the offending aspects are removed?

[Honky Tonk]

You are making this about me and AirBnB.

The AirBnB example was in reference to the neighborhoods view on the application of zoning laws,How and when they apply.

The proposed restaurant was going to use valet,so no parking spots used in the neighborhood.Non issue.

AirBnB requires parking spots in the neighborhood and unless there is a curfew imposed of the guests then yes they can come back at 2 am.

Most small independent restrauants do not get deliveries like franchises,at most it would be no different traffic then a UPS delivery.

Deliveries all day everyday is dramatic and creating situations that do not exist,valet guys running around the neighborhood?

Look at the orientation of the valet lots,there are 6 properties that are on that block that may or may not be directly impacted.

The three things that the neighborhood addressed were also addressed by the potential use,so there is no reasonable argument against it.

That is like opposing a strip club useing the argument that the women will be running around the neighborhood topless.

The city has bills to pay and they do not get paid by a couple of people coming up with non legitimate reasons in order to stop revenue generation.

They recieved the apartments that they were looking for and the potential new business offered solutions in order to lessen the impact of the neighborhood.

How exactly does it impact the neighborhood when the offending aspects are removed?

I can always tell when someone's arguement falters, they start pulling out things from the bottom of the barrel. Seriously, Richard, you don't live in that neighborhood, or that City, or that Stste for that matter. You don't know, and this doesn't concern you.

[Towne Cluber]

What a complete joke it is to see someone who has advocated for street drag racing, after-hours joints, and other illegal/dangerous things in other Detroit neighborhoods now against a restaurant in their own neighborhood. Add to that the gall to call others hypocrites about the matter.

NIMBY is absolutely behind the motivation for some detractors.

[canuck]

I can always tell when someone's arguement falters, they start pulling out things from the bottom of the barrel. Seriously, Richard, you don't live in that neighborhood, or that City, or that Stste for that matter. You don't know, and this doesn't concern you.

Congrats. You just won the "hey, meathead, get off of my chair" award for hospitality.

Maybe the reductive process is a good one for Corktown; allow one cop on the beat, one fire hydrant, one restaurant to serve the nabe.
Keep it like a one horsepower town.

[Richard]

O but it does Honky,because I believed in the city enough to buy bonds during the bankruptcy,bonds that were backed by first dibs on collected tax revenue,what do you think happens when that note comes due and the general fund does not have the ability to cover it?

Personaly,I think that the pension funds and retirees and residents have already seen enough pain for the past mistakes,a little fire house in the corner,the gran prix on belle island all of those things contribute to the tax base that effect 700,000 of your fellow citizens.

They may not be the most ideal situations at the moment but they all add up in order to better the city as a whole,once the bleeding is stopped,you can always revisit.

A lot of positive things are happening in the city but there are still a lot of neighborhoods that are feeling the pain and complacency is the killer.

You can be smart about what you are doing and how you are doing it and understand there is a much bigger picture out there.

But hey, no problem,I can mind my own business and not be bothered with it,next time the city has a bond sale just have them tell future investors the same thing,let me know then how that works out.

That water main break in Midtown,that is not just Midtowns problem,every single resident in the city now has to open up thier wallet,no different then if it happened in Corktown,is it better to be able to not only replace the pipe but still have enough to enjoy an evening out or as it is now some will have to forego that evening in lue of a water main replacement,which also degrades quality of life.

[Honky Tonk]

O but it does Honky,because I believed in the city enough to buy bonds during the bankruptcy,bonds that were backed by first dibs on collected tax revenue,what do you think happens when that note comes due and the general fund does not have the ability to cover it?

Personaly,I think that the pension funds and retirees and residents have already seen enough pain for the past mistakes,a little fire house in the corner,the gran prix on belle island all of those things contribute to the tax base that effect 700,000 of your fellow citizens.

They may not be the most ideal situations at the moment but they all add up in order to better the city as a whole,once the bleeding is stopped,you can always revisit.

A lot of positive things are happening in the city but there are still a lot of neighborhoods that are feeling the pain and complacency is the killer.

You can be smart about what you are doing and how you are doing it and understand there is a much bigger picture out there.

But hey, no problem,I can mind my own business and not be bothered with it,next time the city has a bond sale just have them tell future investors the same thing,let me know then how that works out.

That water main break in Midtown,that is not just Midtowns problem,every single resident in the city now has to open up thier wallet,no different then if it happened in Corktown,is it better to be able to not only replace the pipe but still have enough to enjoy an evening out or as it is now some will have to forego that evening in lue of a water main replacement,which also degrades quality of life.

Please, Dick, don't tell me what the residents of my neighborhoods are feeling, because you decided to take a chance on doubling your dollars. This isin't a free for all, mow it down and put in whatever, because you might loose a grand, or you want to make 5. People live here, and people have the right to pick what they want and don't want where they live.

[Honky Tonk]

Congrats. You just won the "hey, meathead, get off of my chair" award for hospitality.

Maybe the reductive process is a good one for Corktown; allow one cop on the beat, one fire hydrant, one restaurant to serve the nabe.
Keep it like a one horsepower town.

Why don't you go try to find out why those 14 people were gunned down in Toronto, eh?

[canuck]

You should have a little drink and settle down.

[Richard]

Please, Dick, don't tell me what the residents of my neighborhoods are feeling, because you decided to take a chance on doubling your dollars. This isin't a free for all, mow it down and put in whatever, because you might loose a grand, or you want to make 5. People live here, and people have the right to pick what they want and don't want where they live.

I wish it was double investment,at the time it was referred to high risk and in common language,a downright stupid investment.

But the one thing I learned on this site,is that the Detroit spirit was still there and I based it on faith,maybe you could have a little more faith in your fellow citizens.

I agree with your assessment of it is not a free for all people live there and people have the right to pick what they want and don't want where they live.

Your words.

But apparently that only applies to those with connections,what about the ones that wanted to spend the money and investment,they are exempt from those same rights?

Why the drama? An already established company wants to make an investment in the community in a limited use historical building that actually would have little impact on the community.

Doing so by useing the desired residential on the top and business on the bottom,which worked well for centuries and most cities would love to have and your best argument that you can come up with are non existent detrimentals while at the same time permitting zoning violations within the neighborhood while opposing others who ere actually following the rules.

Did the neighborhood actually go in front of the zoning board and petition to allow AirBnB in a non designated zone?

At least at the bare minimum try and have a little consistency in the argument,otherwise it just looks like a case of,I can do it but you cannot.

I agree with the other poster on the whole,this needs to be looked at closer aspect,I thought the whole connected aspect was supposed to be out of the city services arena.

If it is not,then you are just repeating history under another name.

[Towne Cluber]

Please, Dick, don't tell me what the residents of my neighborhoods are feeling, because you decided to take a chance on doubling your dollars. This isin't a free for all, mow it down and put in whatever, because you might loose a grand, or you want to make 5. People live here, and people have the right to pick what they want and don't want where they live.

Says the guy who has not only been off-base about the Detroit Grand Prix — but far worse, outright dishonest.

[Honky Tonk]

Says the guy who has not only been off-base about the Detroit Grand Prix — but far worse, outright dishonest.

Are you living in Detroit?

[detroitsgwenivere]

What a complete joke it is to see someone who has advocated for street drag racing, after-hours joints, and other illegal/dangerous things in other Detroit neighborhoods now against a restaurant in their own neighborhood. Add to that the gall to call others hypocrites about the matter.

NIMBY is absolutely behind the motivation for some detractors.

Couldn't help yourself, could you? No, I've advocated for a race track in the city to get the illegal street racing out of the neighborhoods, but as usual, your reading comprehension is on full fail mode.

[Towne Cluber]

Couldn't help yourself, could you? No, I've advocated for a race track in the city to get the illegal street racing out of the neighborhoods, but as usual, your reading comprehension is on full fail mode.

Nice try. You described your advocating for illegal activities as do-gooders needing to stay out of "grown folks business". On the contrary, between that issue and this one, you showed what you're really about...

[Towne Cluber]

Are you living in Detroit?

Just keep repeating it to yourself...

[Honky Tonk]

Just keep repeating it to yourself...

I'm repeating it to you, Cluber, do you or do you not live in Detroit? Someone posted you didn't, I'm curious. What's the problem here?