Four restuarants in Royal Oak will be closing

[Danny]

Due to the new building complex next to the Royal Oak Public Library and City Hall and lack of parking spaces, four restaurants will be closing this year. Andiamo's and Diablo's Restaurant are two of the four. Since Downtown Royal Oak is turning into a mini-metropolis, will it's lack of parking spaces cause more stores to close or just tough it out.

[Bham1982]

While a healthy city overall, Royal Oak seems to be making very dumb decisions lately.

First, the parking situation is awful. You aren't Paris, London or NYC. You're a freakin older, anonymous suburb in the Rust Belt. 100% of your potential consumers have cars. You need cheap/convenient parking, especially in the winter.

Second, the leadership seems about as mature as Beavis and Butt Head [[or Dotard). When downtown restaurants close, the mayor goes on moronic tweetstorms ripping the food quality and the patrons.

Third, there is basically nothing left downtown but d-bag oriented restaurants and bars. There is nothing for anyone over 35, and nothing for anyone who's a foodie. It's junk like Taco Bell and Bar Louie. And there's almost no retail anymore.

Ferndale and Detroit have taken a good deal of RO's potential market share. They need to adapt.

[Lowell]

From today's Free Press. I find it rather inappropriate for a mayor to say anything in a situation like this. Andiamo has a great product although this particular site did not impress me the couple of times I went there in the past. My guess is that it may have been going down anyway and blaming parking was giving the cover.

A verbal food fight of sorts has developed after Royal Oak Mayor Michael Fournier suggested Andiamo's food could be to blame for the Italian restaurant chain closing its Royal Oak location over the weekend.


Andiamo Group CEO and President Joe Vicari accused Fournier of "throwing sour grapes" and said that a statement he made about the restaurant is "baloney." He said he is considering legal action over the mayor's disparaging remarks.


Vicari said Fournier's suggestion the restaurant's product was not good enough for people to walk a block is "bull----."


Vicari said there is "one reason and one reason only" its Royal Oak location was closed after 19 years, and that's parking, although the business had been hurt by the rising popularity of restaurants in Ferndale and Detroit. He also previously cited rent increases.

[dtowncitylover]

And there's almost no retail anymore.

Scout
Lost and Found
Paper Trail Books
Sole Sisters
Rail and Anchor
UHF Records
Write Impressions
Deco Doug's
Chrome
Noir Leather
Metals in Time
Dirt Label
Sally's on Fourth
GameStop
Funky7
Toylogy
Bright Ideas Furniture
HiHi
Lift Designer Toys
Saffron
Blu Jean Blues
Joshua Gold Clothier
LaRoche
Joy Abendmode Bridal
Pitaya

Anyway, the whole restaurant vs. retail argument is old hat. Valid, but it's just gone on so long. And now look, Andiamo's moves out Bar Louie moves in. I prefer Bar Louie over Blackfinn and Andiamo's.

I thank the mayor for that response. It's exactly what I was thinking. Andiamo can suck it with their lame excuse. Peking House made it through "their" parking lot being built on.

If you want Italian, Pop's in Ferndale sounds better anyway.

If you an able bodied anyone, walk. If you have a few extra bucks, valet. Not so hard. I don't give a fuck about complaints of parking and cars anymore. There's something like 8 parking spots for every 1 car in America.

While RO has an unfortunate "bro" perception, there's plenty of options for over 35. I've never walked down Main or Washington and not noticed white hairs every few feet. Lily's, Royal Oak Brewing, D'Amato's, Oak City Grille all seem to attract an older crowd. What a terrible argument.

[EGrant]

Looks like the “Take Back Royal Oak Coalition" is spewing lies, based on this statement from city hall:

https://detroit.eater.com/2018/7/9/1...fox-dixie-moon

[EGrant]

Also, if you can't find parking in Royal Oak, I don't know what to tell you. I used to live in Grand Rapids and unless there was a Walmart-sized, free parking lot with the directions automatically programmed into everyone's cars, people would complain.

As for Andiamo's, their dated model of cheesy, expensive Italian "fine" dining went out of style in 2005. If you're going to spend that much on a night out, why would you go to a chain restaurant? I think a few weeks without a parking lot within spitting distance was only part of the story here.

[Bham1982]

Also, if you can't find parking in Royal Oak, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not that you "can't find parking", it's that it's expensive and inconvenient. 99% of the region has free parking. If you don't have free parking, you better offer something far beyond anywhere else, and downtown RO doesn't do that. It's a generic Midwest main street, with bad food.

Birmingham has 2 hours free parking and five municipal garages. That's convenient. Northville and Rochester have free parking in all lots. Ferndale has metered parking, like RO, but not as ubiquitous, cheaper and less enforcement. Downtown obviously has paid parking but it's the regional center.

So RO is pretty much unique in the region in that it doesn't have a special lure, but it does have a difficult parking situation. This is why it's at a competitive disadvantage, and it probably contributes to businesses closing.

And you can say "too bad, walk everywhere", but not an option for parents with small children, elderly, handicapped, or just people who don't like arctic weather half the year when they can go elsewhere and not deal with that crap.

As for Andiamo's, their dated model of cheesy, expensive Italian "fine" dining went out of style in 2005.

Andiamos sucks, but that's not the point. The point is the mayor ripped on their food and patrons after they announced closing, which is obviously absurdly juvenile and makes him sound like a scorned partner.

[Bham1982]

Looks like the “Take Back Royal Oak Coalition" is spewing lies, based on this statement from city hall:

The mayor is a putz and there's no evidence of lies. It's basically a he said/she said situation and it's pretty obvious these businesses are at risk of closing, or the downtown business group wouldn't have cited them.

[dtowncitylover]

The mayor is a putz and there's no evidence of lies. It's basically a he said/she said situation and it's pretty obvious these businesses are at risk of closing, or the downtown business group wouldn't have cited them.

If you paid attention to the 2017 RO election, that same group was all about spreading misinformation.

If you say a place in closing and then said place comes out and says we're not closing, how is that not a lie?

IT DOESN'T HAVE A LURE? It has numerous attractions! It has the Zoo, Royal Oak Music Theatre, an art theatre, a mainstream theatre, a traditional theatre, and a drag queen bingo spot PLUS all the different festivals the city hosts; Rib Fest was just this weekend. People come to Royal Oak for those things.

Royal Oak has free 2 hr parking in structures before 5 pm and a flat rate of $5 after. Why? Because they know they are a destination. Birmingham and Rochester are not as much destination spots.

Downtown Royal Oak is not that big even if you are a family. Sorry. There are strollers and holding your kid or what my parents did, tell me to walk and run around. See plenty of RO families walking into downtown. Elderly and handicap have their spots. Sorry but the vast majority of complainers are able bodied and can make the extra block.

[pocketchange]

Rochester have free parking in all lots.

Not quite, there are a few lots furthest away from downtown that are free but everything else is $1 per hour M-Sat 9am-9pm. I think you get a free hour in the parking structures.

[softailrider]

The last time I went to that Andiamos location [[ about a month ago ) I was shocked how far downhill the food had come. The bread was really good, the salad was pretty good but the entrees were really mediocre. Plus the place seemed like it was kind of FU’ed - they ran out of clean glasses and served us iced tea in large brandy snifters. The guy who seated us [[same guy who’s been there for a while ) was wearing pants with crocks, I know that place is casual, but what kind of an example is that for his staff and patrons? Kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

[Bham1982]

If you say a place in closing and then said place comes out and says we're not closing, how is that not a lie?

Except the business group never said this. Read their release.

The business group said they aren't renewing their leases, a very different situation. The lawyers never responded to the business group claims, they just said "we aren't closing".

Also, smart businesses don't admit they're closing until they're actually closing. It kills patronage.

IT DOESN'T HAVE A LURE? It has numerous attractions! It has the Zoo, Royal Oak Music Theatre, an art theatre, a mainstream theatre, a traditional theatre, and a drag queen bingo spot PLUS all the different festivals the city hosts; Rib Fest was just this weekend. People come to Royal Oak for those things.

The zoo has nothing to do with downtown RO. The Emagine is a suburban format, with big parking lot. All communities have rib fests and random summer stuff.

Royal Oak has free 2 hr parking in structures before 5 pm and a flat rate of $5 after. Why? Because they know they are a destination. Birmingham and Rochester are not as much destination spots.

This is obviously silly. Bham is a much bigger/more desirable core, and Rochester, while not bigger, is generally more desirable. Both communities have much better restaurants, and you don't have to pay for parking and look ugly for dinner.

Sorry but the vast majority of complainers are able bodied and can make the extra block.

But that isn't the issue. The issue is they don't want to, and don't have to.

You can scream "You must put on 17 layers of clothes and look like an eskimo if you want a plate of pasta" but the region has enough alternatives that no one needs to do this. Women can wear heels and look nice, babies can be easily transported, etc.

[O3H]

People are lazy and don't want to walk any distance.
Wear sensible shoes, and suck it up. Walking is part of life.

[Bigdd]

Mayor is an azz.

True,.. the restaurants COULD offer even better food at the same price as their competitors,.. but better food and better chefs cost money. So they would be at a competitive disadvantage.

The reality is more like,... Guy takes his best girl / wife out for fancy dinner. She's in her best heels, and spent 30 min doing her makeup.

He tries to find a close spot because it's 35 F outside ,.. or perhaps it's 85 F outside.

He can't find one nearby. Tries the lot a block away. That's full too. Finds a spot 1.5 blocks away. They walk to restaurant. They're 7 min late for their reservation.

She's now cold, and her nice shoes are messed up from the snow,.. or perhaps she's hot because it's 85F,.. and her makeup is starting to run, and she's beginning to swe___...er, I mean.. "glow".

She's a bit unhappy and sneaks off to the bathroom to check her makeup. She's NOT feeling pampered. The evening still costs him $120. But instead of her being "treated" to a nice evening,.. it feels like work somehow.


The next time they feel like nice Italian,.. he makes sure to go to the Andiamo's on Telegraph and Maple,.. where you pull right to the front door under a roof and have the valet park the car.

[dtowncitylover]

Except the business group never said this. Read their release.

The business group said they aren't renewing their leases, a very different situation. The lawyers never responded to the business group claims, they just said "we aren't closing".

Also, smart businesses don't admit they're closing until they're actually closing. It kills patronage.

The zoo has nothing to do with downtown RO. The Emagine is a suburban format, with big parking lot. All communities have rib fests and random summer stuff.

This is obviously silly. Bham is a much bigger/more desirable core, and Rochester, while not bigger, is generally more desirable. Both communities have much better restaurants, and you don't have to pay for parking and look ugly for dinner.

But that isn't the issue. The issue is they don't want to, and don't have to.

You can scream "You must put on 17 layers of clothes and look like an eskimo if you want a plate of pasta" but the region has enough alternatives that no one needs to do this. Women can wear heels and look nice, babies can be easily transported, etc.

None of this correct. Cantina and Red Fox don't have leases because they own their building. They may not announce their intentions but their release was pretty positive that they're not closing or have any troubles. In fact "their" parking lot was already too small and shared to actually say its closure would affect them.

Bham and Rochester, whatever their size, are "desirable" in only a classist sense because of their demography. Royal Oak is desirable because it's truly at the crossroads of metro area and therefore has a pretty diverse showing of people when you're down there Friday and Saturday evenings.

Downtown still compliments the Zoo and visa versa. Emagine's parking lot has nothing to do with this. Again, Royal Oak does have lures and plenty of attractions that bring in crowds for meals. You're just plain wrong.

And to your last point, sure. Go to a suburban strip waste land and have your Andiamo's. Bye bye, Royal Oak won't miss you.

[swingline]

$5 to park all night in a ramp is a bargain compared to the cost of the rest of an evening dining out in Royal Oak. https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Fre.../dp/193236496X

[Paris_of_the_Midwest]

Birmingham has 2 hours free parking and five municipal garages. That's convenient. Northville and Rochester have free parking in all lots. Ferndale has metered parking, like RO, but not as ubiquitous, cheaper and less enforcement. Downtown obviously has paid parking but it's the regional center.

The Royal Oak decks offer 2 hours of free parking before 5 p.m. and flat rates thereafter.

With respect to raising parking rates, they are time dependent but generally went up from $1 an hour to $1.25 an hour. And they hadn't been raised in quite some time. What effect will an extra 25c have on the businesses and the desire of visitors to park? The city should listen carefully and respond appropriately.

Regarding Andiamo - there is a newly built deck ~ .1 miles or about 1 block, from Andiamo with over 500 parking spots. Interesting that so many of the "new urbanist" types on this forum, who laud walkabilty in Detroit and opine on what surface lots do to a walkable area, claim that people don't want to walk 1 block to get to a restaurant in a downtown setting. The reality is, downtown Royal Oak is a destination center, just like downtown Birmingham or other downtown areas, you may have to walk to get where you want to go, it's not a suburban strip mall.

Downtown Royal Oak has undergone significant change over time but especially since the introduction of 696. It's at another major change moment; there are construction cranes all over the downtown, mid rise projects are everywhere and over 1,200 office jobs will be coming into the city in the next handful of years. Royal Oak is transforming from a more quaint main street style downtown to a more urban downtown with significant amounts of mixed-use office, stores/restaurants and residential.

Especially for those who've lived in RO for longer periods of time, the city center and neighborhoods are undergoing dramatic change. Downtown is becoming a bona fide employment center and the 1 story buildings of the past are making way to mid-rise structures with all of the density that comes with. The neighborhoods are experiencing significant amounts of new construction homes. The changes are creating some friction points. It's an odd comparison but it's similar to a lot the friction between old and new that occurs in the gentrification debates. There are new types of people moving into the city and old and new ways of thinking and living are clashing.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

People are lazy and don't want to walk any distance.
Wear sensible shoes, and suck it up. Walking is part of life.

Plus, I'm sure more than a few of them could lose a few lbs. The walking would do a lot of them good.

[gnome]

I want to know why Italian food qualifies as Fine Dining. Family fare, sure, but fine dining?

A countless variation of pasta and sauce just never seemed to me as worthy of such a designation as Fine Dining.

If Fine Dining is the peak, the top, the supreme, and if pasta and sauce qualifies, what goes above it?

[Bham1982]

I want to know why Italian food qualifies as Fine Dining. Family fare, sure, but fine dining?

A countless variation of pasta and sauce just never seemed to me as worthy of such a designation as Fine Dining.

If Fine Dining is the peak, the top, the supreme, and if pasta and sauce qualifies, what goes above it?

Italian food is far more than "pasta and sauce". It's one of the most diverse cuisines on the planet. The cuisine is pretty radically different depending on location.

And the highest rated restaurant on the planet, Osteria Francescana, is Italian. Fine dining can be Italian, just as for any other cuisine.

https://www.theworlds50best.com/list/1-50-winners

Most of the "Italian" in the U.S. is not really Italian food. If you go to Italy, you won't find spaghetti and meatballs, garlic bread, veal parmesan, cheesecake, etc. You will find highly localized specialties, most of which aren't well known here.

If you're in, say, Venice, and see a restaurant advertising pizza or pasta, it's guaranteed to be a tourist joint. They don't eat that stuff. Venetians eat fried seafood, risotto, bean soup, etc.

[Bham1982]

The reality is more like,... Guy takes his best girl / wife out for fancy dinner. She's in her best heels, and spent 30 min doing her makeup.

He tries to find a close spot because it's 35 F outside ,.. or perhaps it's 85 F outside.

He can't find one nearby. Tries the lot a block away. That's full too. Finds a spot 1.5 blocks away. They walk to restaurant. They're 7 min late for their reservation.

She's now cold, and her nice shoes are messed up from the snow,.. or perhaps she's hot because it's 85F,.. and her makeup is starting to run, and she's beginning to swe___...er, I mean.. "glow".

She's a bit unhappy and sneaks off to the bathroom to check her makeup. She's NOT feeling pampered. The evening still costs him $120. But instead of her being "treated" to a nice evening,.. it feels like work somehow.

Thank you. This would be a common real world scenario. Even in places where car isn't king, "date night" involves Uber/Lyft door-to-door, or valet. It has nothing to do with lazy, or out of shape. The same couple might be doing crossfit or spin in the AM.

And if you're a downtown with a bad lineup of restaurants, and worse parking situation than all your competitors, you're at a disadvantage.

[iheartthed]

I think Andiamo's is closing because of crime and schools.

[Honky Tonk]

Plus, I'm sure more than a few of them could lose a few lbs. The walking would do a lot of them good.

Thank you Richard Simmons.

[gnome]

Italian food is far more than "pasta and sauce". It's one of the most diverse cuisines on the planet. The cuisine is pretty radically different depending on location.

And the highest rated restaurant on the planet, Osteria Francescana, is Italian. Fine dining can be Italian, just as for any other cuisine.

https://www.theworlds50best.com/list/1-50-winners

Most of the "Italian" in the U.S. is not really Italian food. If you go to Italy, you won't find spaghetti and meatballs, garlic bread, veal parmesan, cheesecake, etc. You will find highly localized specialties, most of which aren't well known here.

If you're in, say, Venice, and see a restaurant advertising pizza or pasta, it's guaranteed to be a tourist joint. They don't eat that stuff. Venetians eat fried seafood, risotto, bean soup, etc.

Thank you. I was always confusing Royal Oak Michigan with Venice, Italy.

The lack of gondolas kinda threw me off, as did the lack of Italians, but your keen observation is spot on.

Before your post I never would have guessed that the food in X country was different from the stuff you can get here.

Heavens-to-Betsy, the world is such a big place...now back to my spaghettioes.

[SammyS]

I think Andiamo's is closing because of crime and schools.

Maybe they’ll open in Detroit