Social Mobility: Does the U.S. have a problem?

[Canadian Visitor]

Social Mobility, for those who don't know the term, refers to the ability of one's children to exceed the educational and class [[economic) attainment of their parents.

ie. Born to a HS graduate w/low-income, the child is able to climb, based on his or her merits to obtain some post-secondary and a job that pays materially better. [[middle class)

Historically, the United States associated itself with a high degree of social mobility [[the rags to riches story).

One aspect of this was that the US lacks a formal class structure that is easily reinforced by things like accent.

Another was that entry level, lower skill jobs used to pay relatively better than what was seen elsewhere; while post-secondary education had more spots and easier access relative to older nations.

All that said, the U.S. has slipped in social mobility, such that it is now more difficult for someone born to a low-income parent to climb out of poverty than in previous generations. It is also more difficult in the US than many other countries.

Is this a serious problem for the U.S.?

If so, what can/should be done about it?

Report here: [[from Brookings)

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...awhill_ch3.pdf

[Richard]

I agree it is worse and yes parents usually wanted thier children to do better then them and made the sacrifices to make that possible.

There are measures being taken and should be passed in the upcoming months that will hopefully go a long way to change things as we know it today,so everybody has that chance.

But the whole job thing has changed from when I was younger when you did not need a degree to make a decent living,but a lot of those jobs have dried up,offshored,or people are looking for already expirenced.

A lot of it is also perception,for instance some may view a plumber as a lower skilled job,without knowing the skill set needed,but yet it can pay just as much a degree.

Some spend 4 years in the classroom learning while others spend 4 years in the actual field learning.

[Canadian Visitor]

There are measures being taken and should be passed in the upcoming months that will hopefully go a long way to change things as we know it today,so everybody has that chance.

What measures do you foresee being taken?

[Richard]

The current administration has been for the last year putting together a plan that combines the department of education with the department of labor.

It is kinda what I have been talking about for awhile now and replaces the manufacturing council that was dropped.

Low performing high schoolers are identified by the schools and placed into a skills training program,its kinda a mixture of completion of a GED while receiving training in a skill set mixed in with apprenticeship program.

But not just limited to low performers.

Collage students can enroll in apprenticeship programs in thier field of study while in collage so when they get out they have expirence and job placement.No loan forgiveness but a chance on more solid footing.

Most schools districts already have vo tech branches but when combined with the department of labor the training becomes applied.

The goal was to give everybody an equal chance,some are collage material and some are not,to say ones way of life should be determined by the books is leaving a lot of people behind,some are book smart while others may excel in other ereas,We do not know until we try.

But it is still going to be based on the individual though,the opportunity will be there but unless one takes advantage of it they cannot benefit from it.

I am sure given the current votile situation there is going to be pushback,but it does not remove funding from the schools but streamlines the mission of preparing students for thier future in the workforce and providing a level playing field for everybody no matter what thier background or income.

We have the smartest and brightest,we do not need to import them,we just need to allow them to become thier best.

When it comes to social mobility,we are roller skating missing 3 wheels.

I just hope that once it is presented it can be reviewed and implemented and tweaked with everybody putting the politics aside,the ones that could benefit from this are our future and they deserve a chance.

[Canadian Visitor]

The current administration has been for the last year putting together a plan that combines the department of education with the department of labor.

It is kinda what I have been talking about for awhile now and replaces the manufacturing council that was dropped.

Low performing high schoolers are identified by the schools and placed into a skills training program,its kinda a mixture of completion of a GED while receiving training in a skill set mixed in with apprenticeship program.

But not just limited to low performers.

Collage students can enroll in apprenticeship programs in thier field of study while in collage so when they get out they have expirence and job placement.No loan forgiveness but a chance on more solid footing.

Most schools districts already have vo tech branches but when combined with the department of labor the training becomes applied.

The goal was to give everybody an equal chance,some are collage material and some are not,to say ones way of life should be determined by the books is leaving a lot of people behind,some are book smart while others may excel in other ereas,We do not know until we try.

But it is still going to be based on the individual though,the opportunity will be there but unless one takes advantage of it they cannot benefit from it.

I am sure given the current votile situation there is going to be pushback,but it does not remove funding from the schools but streamlines the mission of preparing students for thier future in the workforce and providing a level playing field for everybody no matter what thier background or income.

We have the smartest and brightest,we do not need to import them,we just need to allow them to become thier best.

When it comes to social mobility,we are roller skating missing 3 wheels.

I just hope that once it is presented it can be reviewed and implemented and tweaked with everybody putting the politics aside,the ones that could benefit from this are our future and they deserve a chance.

I can't speak to the virtue of merging the two departments, though I'd be leary of another government colossus.

But in so far as there were additional or more accessible apprenticeship opportunities, I think that would be very laudable.

I'm not, however, at all certain that would address income inequality in a large way.

As you have pointed out there are fewer blue collar jobs, especially low skill, but some higher skill as well.

Automation is leading to fewer numbers with each passing year.

There will still be plumbers etc. But how many more does the U.S. need vs what is the case now?

I have no idea, but off-hand I'm thinking 5,000 more plumbers, 500 of those in any given year is unlikely to move the needed on income inequality all that much.

I would suggest that there needs to be both more access to higher skill/wage employment, which means better primary/secondary education, and no undue barriers to tertiary [[post-secondary) education.

As you also note, some people are not academically inclined, and its likely their future rests of what are seen as lower skill jobs, which aren't at immediate danger of automation.

Those would be customer-service jobs in retail to some degree [[cashiers will be automated out to a large degree, but 'help' isn't that likely to be.

Similar jobs in call centres and the like will be around a bit longer too. Those jobs need to pay better.

[Richard]

We are not looking for income equality,we are looking for opportunity equality.

The plumbers example,as of 2018 it is listed as the best skilled trade,
with a current demand of 75,000.

Adverage wage is $54,000 and topping out at $90,000,income equality would say you are stuck at the $54,000 like all of the others,the rewards in life is the ability to further your career and increase your income while providing a better lifestyle for your family.

If you took 1000 Detroiters that currently have no opportunity and provided them with the necessary tools to succeed what would the direct impact be on the community.

That is just plumbers,now add carpenters,electricians,masons,tool and die,metal workers,sheet metal workers etc.

Anybody that employs knows what this country is up against,we have a work force,the need to import one is based on greed and millions are left behind.

20,30,50 years down the road people are still going to have to use the toilet and they are still going to plug up.

Shure everything is evolving rapidly but if we cannot meet the labor demand then it is pointless,but the basic structure of the trades will always be there because you always need somebody to build,fix,and in the end demolish it. No app for that.

[Canadian Visitor]

We are not looking for income equality,we are looking for opportunity equality.

The plumbers example,as of 2018 it is listed as the best skilled trade,
with a current demand of 75,000.

Adverage wage is $54,000 and topping out at $90,000,income equality would say you are stuck at the $54,000 like all of the others,the rewards in life is the ability to further your career and increase your income while providing a better lifestyle for your family.

If you took 1000 Detroiters that currently have no opportunity and provided them with the necessary tools to succeed what would the direct impact be on the community.

That is just plumbers,now add carpenters,electricians,masons,tool and die,metal workers,sheet metal workers etc.

Anybody that employs knows what this country is up against,we have a work force,the need to import one is based on greed and millions are left behind.

20,30,50 years down the road people are still going to have to use the toilet and they are still going to plug up.

Shure everything is evolving rapidly but if we cannot meet the labor demand then it is pointless,but the basic structure of the trades will always be there because you always need somebody to build,fix,and in the end demolish it. No app for that.

We're not disagreeing about the need for plumbers, though they too are vulnerable to automation [[think compression fittings or pex piping).

What I'm saying is that particular opportunity set isn't sufficient in and of itself.

We're looking at the need for better education/wages for at least 50,000,000 Americans, I don't think the trades are 50,000,000 shy

***

The second notion you raise is opportunity vs outcome.

I would suggest to you that while no, there is no aim for equality of outcome per se; the opportunity has to be for an income sufficient both for survival and ideally for social mobility.

What is the path to that 'opportunity' beyond more kids or for that matter under-employed adults going into the trades?

[Pam]

It's not just a social mobility problem, it's a full on poverty problem.

https://www.alternet.org/economy/hal...living-poverty

According to the Social Security Administration, over half of Americans make less than $30,000 per year.

A study by Go Banking Rates reveals that nearly 50 percent of Americans have no savings. Over 70 percent of us have less than $1,000

We need wage increases and a national health care plan for starters.

[Canadian Visitor]

It's not just a social mobility problem, it's a full on poverty problem.

https://www.alternet.org/economy/hal...living-poverty



We need wage increases and a national health care plan for starters.

Hear Hear!

Your speaking my language.

I would add mandates around minimum vacation time, because that, and crackdowns on endless overtime, redistribute some work.

[Richard]

I think the number was 54% would be hard pressed to come up with $500 in an emergency.

Income inequality has been around sense mankind but we in America seem to like the credit trap.

I personally find it hard to have a discussion out in the street about being broke all of the time while they are driving a new car wearing the latest fashions.

I live in a blue collar and low income neighborhood,I drive a 1997 model year car and shop at goodwill while everybody around me is also driving a new car and dressed to the 9s while out in public and they have all of the newest trend cool furniture in thier house that needs to be replaced yearly weather it needs to be or not.

Is It income disparity or difficulty in determining the difference between wants and needs.

No country has been able to socialize thier way out of income disparity,the images coming out of Venezuela of emancipated children that resemble concentration camp survivors are appalling,that was the pledge of income equality,where everybody is has no money or food equally.

In this country,thanks in a large part to Mrs Roosevelt at the very minimum one can have a roof over thier head and a meal on thier plate,where we choose to go from there is our personal decision.

Having a skill is another tool that allows one to achieve a better lifestyle at a better wage,you cannot force people to want that,they have to want that.

This country is loaded with personal success stories of those who started out in poverty and dire circumstances and became successful despite the odds,I am sure every single one of them will say it was hell the entire way,but they wanted it bad enough and persisted and achieved thier goals.

There is not enough money in the world for us to buy our country out of poverty so everybody is equal pay and every country that has tried has proved that it cannot be done without disastrous results long term.

CV mentioned the possibility of this program becoming another bloated agency but the attempt is to streamline two government agencies that should have been working hand in hand in the first place.

The education system is there to prepare our children and young adults by giving them the tools to merge into society.

The department of labor should have the same mission,or target the labor force needs and work with the education system and private enterprise to educate and train the population in order to fill those needs.

Those are our choices either invest in giving the tools needed and the opportunity short term or provide a lifetime of generational assistance,which one is the most cost effective to the tax payer?

We cannot tell kids to not join a gang without providing an alternative,we cannot load up college students with debt and expect them to enter the workforce with the deck stacked against them and then punish them because they are stuck flipping burgers and cannot afford to pay the debt.

There are already accredited free collages scattered across the country where the comparisons can be made but it always comes down to a circle,no matter how much free or educated one becomes,without a complete circle all we are doing is loading everybody up at the bus stop waiting for a bus that never comes.

Canadian visitor and Pam,thinking that the answer is the socialization of America is the answer then this will go nowhere because people in this country have made it clear that it is not a path that they will not go down,

The American socialist party came over on the first boats 200 plus years ago and are still where they started,but feel free and tell those who need opportunity now to hang in there help may or may not arrive in another 200 years.

How is that income equality working out in Canada anyways,on the surface it seems to be working as everybody can afford the million dollar homes in the city while making $15 per hour.

[Richard]

Hear Hear!

Your speaking my language.

I would add mandates around minimum vacation time, because that, and crackdowns on endless overtime, redistribute some work.

lol is this a serious thread on income disparity or hello from Canada how can we help you to become a socialist society,because we have done so well here.

When you are finished supplying everybody an equal sized igloo in every yard then maybe you can try and gain support in this country,my thinking is that before that happens there will be a civil war Because to many have eyes and there are plenty of real world examples out there of how those systems do not work long term.

It is not like you are reinventing the wheel,only regurgitating the same old thing,not very creative.

[Canadian Visitor]

lol is this a serious thread on income disparity or hello from Canada how can we help you to become a socialist society,because we have done so well here.

When you are finished supplying everybody an equal sized igloo in every yard then maybe you can try and gain support in this country,my thinking is that before that happens there will be a civil war Because to many have eyes and there are plenty of real world examples out there of how those systems do not work long term.

It is not like you are reinventing the wheel,only regurgitating the same old thing,not very creative.

Once again, you resort to insults right off the bat.

I responded to an American poster, by agreeing with her, and adding one additional suggestion.

For this I get nonsense about igloos?

You never come off as very bright, but even you know that's not true; its insulting not funny.

You want respect, clearly, but you give none.

I've said it here again and again, post like an adult and I will treat you like one when I reply.

As I did earlier in this thread. Drop down to a level of rudeness and nonsense and I will excoriate you for being a lower form of life.

****

I won't really answer your latest post beyond that because it simply don't merit it.

[Richard]

^ you solution is the old redistribution of wealth in order to solve income disparity,common sense dictates that it is not an exceptable solution in this country.There are examples all over the world of how that does not work,it is not like it is a newly invented solution.

I understand if you do not understand the whole concept behind overtime and why it is used.

The newly elected girl in New York promised everybody a govenment job,let's see how well that works.

You started the discussion,do you actually have any solutions that can be implemented now without changing the entire structure of a country or beating the drum of wealth distribution?

I am listening.

Why are you offended by the igloo reference,I figured that you would figure it could be a govenment supplied houseing solution for the masses.

They could be stamped out enmass cost effective,thier very design is energy efficient,light enough to be moved,the shape is strong and wind resistance to storms.

They are no different then the tiny house craze other then the physical shape.

So what would you rather see,govenment supplied homeless tent cities or durable and portable government supplied igloos.

You could confiscate one of those million dollar homes in Toronto and put 20 igloos on the same lot and everybody would be safely equal.

You look at it as an insult while the more dedicated may look at it as a solution.

[Johnnny5]

Wage stagnation for low and unskilled Americans is one of largest destroyers of social mobility in this country. Many people today are spending so much time just trying to get by, that improving their lot in life is a near impossibility. It's tough to devote the time to your family or save for your kid's college when both parents are working, yet still barely making enough to live on!

IMO the easiest solution to successfully raise wages long term isn't artificially high minimum wages, but forcing employers to fairly compete for low skilled and unskilled workers. We're temporarily seeing this as the economy prospers, but the upwards of 8 million foreign nationals illegally working here have been depressing wages of working class Americans for more than two decades.

I know I've mentioned this before, but until very recently starting wages for unskilled landscaping positions in Metro Detroit were today paying nearly the same as they did when I temporarily took one the summer after high school in 1997! Then it was rare to see non-American laborers in this area, but now many of the landscape companies have crews that are nearly 100% foreign workers. Some are here legally and working on temporary visas [[Another related issue), but many are straight up illegal aliens being employed by cheating companies! And the same thing has happened to custodial workers, farming/slaughterhouse jobs, restaurant workers and more!

Economists like to argue that allowing large numbers of low skilled foreign workers into this country boosts the GDP and leads to growth. Of course cheap labor increases the size of the economy, but it often does so at the expense of the working class.

There's nearly zero political will to do anything about this [[The rich on the right and left love cheap labor), but we need to punish these cheating employers and the rest will work itself out in time. Heavy fines and possible jail time for employers is a whole lot easier than building and maintaining a massive wall and 1000's of border guards!

[Richard]

That is even more prevalent here in Florida,landscaping,construction,road crews,the multi billion dollar timeshare industry etc.

But the cost of a new house does not reflect the reduced labor costs as in everything else.

We have displaced a large percentage of those jobs even if they were lower pay they no longer exist.

The problem is when we take steps to stop it half of the country jumps up and crys racist and that they are just seeking a better life,so instead of the obvious solution,the only one they can come up with is wealth distribution and pay people to sit home while soap boxing about rich corporations that they are actually creating by supplying them with a cheap labor force.

Some are good at creating situations so thier solutions fit thier agenda.

[Canadian Visitor]

You started the discussion,do you actually have any solutions that can be implemented now without changing the entire structure of a country or beating the drum of wealth distribution?

I am listening.

As I have explained in countless posts, you are wrong about the minimum wage.

Ontario's unemployment rate is in line with numbers in border states and better when accounting for labour force participation, notwithstanding a large minimum wage increase this year.

Higher minimum wages in Australia, New Zealand and in most of Western and Northern Europe all result in reduced poverty and increased opportunity. [[in Northern Europe these are mostly done through unions, but union membership is nearly universal and bargaining is sectoral)

In respect of healthcare, 136 million Americans already receive publicly-funded healthcare [[medicare, medicaid, chirp, military). That doesn't included other public servants with health benefits, putting the number very close to a majority.

Without raising taxes at all, that coverage could be extended to most or all Americans, if the excess costs in US healthcare were driven down [[over prescription, over testing, high drug prices, private insurance mark up, excessive malpractice costs, profit-driven treatment, costs of emergency care for the uninsured) and a modest decrease in military spending was reallocated.

The value in that exercise is that it allows more people to reach adulthood in good health, physically and mentally and therefore to do better at school and have better employment prospects.

A majority of Americans support single-payer.

That said, I don't expect that to pass anytime soon and there are other more limited-scope solutions.

Decrease the age of eligibility for medicare to 60 and you not only cover anyone uninsured in that space, you also reduce the cost of private insurance significantly.

Likewise, covering pregnancy, as-of-right, under medicaid would remove costly care from private insurance, and ensure every pregnancy is treated with proper care.

Some reforms to reduce excess malpractice settlements/suits would be helpful, and specifically moving towards universal care for children under 18. This is by far the cheapest expansion of care as kids don't usually get that sick.

Drug costs could be lowered by banning advertising for drugs and other marketing costs as is done in most developed countries, and the savings would allow lower costs.

Patents for drugs need to be reduced in length back to their historic range of 10-15 years instead of 20 and/or patent pricing needs to be overseen by an independent panel.

There are lots of policy options.

You might like some that you probably think of as more conservative.

I do think illegal labour is a problem, I just think ICE raids and current border nonsense are an expensive and asinine way to address it.

Tackle it very simply, EVERY employer MUST verify a valid social security number for every employee, no exceptions, ever.

If you are caught non submitting paperwork, or falsifying it, you are fined heavily on a first offense, $15,000 per worker or twice the difference between what you paid that worker and the prevailing wage, the greater of the two.

Repeat offense, fines triple and jail becomes an option.

Do this and jobs for those that are not legal will evaporate and they will choose to leave [[or not arrive) on their own.

For those in the 'dreamer' class who may only speak English, who didn't have a choice in their arrival, a path to citizenship is in order.

By all means, also use tax cuts w/the proviso that if you don't want a deficit to the moon, you will have to eliminate some deductions for middle class and rich to pay for cuts targeted at low-income earners.

Raising the basic amount of income on which no tax is paid, as well as the amount and eligibility of the Earned Income Tax Credit would both be helpful.

The only admonishment is that to be effective the tax move would have to be large and the offsets not trivial.

There are lots of other policy tools.

[Richard]

The problem with enforcement is we now have a large part of the country protesting to abolish the very agency that enforces the laws when it comes to employers,that is thier back door into expanding employment of illegals.

How about if we say and do what other countries do,if you are caught in this country illegally it is an automatic 10 years prison,you have no rights because you are not a citizen.

Say what you want,Trumps rhetoric worked,when he took office the Mexican crossing dropped to almost nothing,the ones at the border are from every other country that are playing Americans like puppets in order to cross.

The partial solution that is being presented,takes 2 bloated government agencies and combines them into one.

The savings realized is used to apply tax credits to businesses that take part in the program,that tax credit is used to offset the wages while the employee is in the training or apprenticeship program.

Collage students can enter apprenticeship programs,which because of studies would be in a part time situation,when they graduate they then have expirence and if the company that they apprenticeship under chooses to hire them full time then they have that option.

Everybody then is placed in a employment data base that is recognized across the country,somebody needs a CNC opereator they can then go to the data base and see who is advailable.

It is not a cure all and not everybody will take advantage of it,but it takes money that is already being spent,mixes it with private enterprise essentially doubling it and we are investing in citizens future that shows a productive return verses paying a lifelong stay at home or stuck in a low wage job,which in turn opens up the low wage jobs for high schoolers.

Without raising taxes,if for instance it only helps 1000 people in Detroit that is 1000 more that will have an opportunity that they would not have had before,multiply that X how many cities in the United States it adds up quick.

After the labor force is stable then the whole income equilibrium aspect can be brought up but in the meantime it is hard to tax those already paying even more and put them down into the level of the program that we are taxing them to implement,the object is not to have half of the country go backwards in order to pull the other half forward.

I realize that is the desired effect for some but sooner or later you do run out of everybody else's money.

I will leave it up to Pams group to come up with a feasable healthcare solution,keeping in mind the disarray that everybody's universal healthcare is crashing in some form or another.

[Canadian Visitor]

The problem with enforcement is we now have a large part of the country protesting to abolish the very agency that enforces the laws when it comes to employers,that is thier back door into expanding employment of illegals.

If ICE went after EMPLOYERS, instead of the employees they would achieve the desired outcome without all the bad press, and at much less cost.

How about if we say and do what other countries do,if you are caught in this country illegally it is an automatic 10 years prison,you have no rights because you are not a citizen.

What country in the developed world has this penalty?

Canada will deport you, not jail you indefinitely.

Why would you want to keep someone in jail, never mind compassion, its expensive.

Say what you want,Trumps rhetoric worked,when he took office the Mexican crossing dropped to almost nothing,the ones at the border are from every other country that are playing Americans like puppets in order to cross.

Mexican migration has largely been net to Mexico over the last several years. [[vis a vis the US)

That happened long before Trump.

The current issue is w/folks from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala.

....which in turn opens up the low wage jobs for high schoolers.

Why do we want HS aged teens working during the school year? Studies show they are LESS likely to graduate, and less likely to go to college when you do that.

Summer jobs yes, year-round no.

Capping access to cheap labour, including HS students helps raise the average wage of those who remain.

I would suggest limiting the work hours of anyone under 18 without a HS diploma to a maximum of 12 hours per week, and no work before 4pm on school days, or after 9pm on school nights.

I will leave it up to Pams group to come up with a feasable healthcare solution,keeping in mind the disarray that everybody's universal healthcare is crashing in some form or another.

Whose healthcare is in disarray? Overall care here, and in most other OECD nations is excellent.

Yes, we have wait times for elective procedures, and it would be nice if they were shorter, we've also got some crowding in some hospitals, which is being addressed.

But overall the care is good.

At any rate, not relevant as I don't see the US going the full S-P route anytime soon, the question is what steps in that direction can be passed that will move the needle.

[Canadian Visitor]

This article from the Washington Post today seems on point.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d8281038b840

[Pam]

Bottom line is wages have not kept up with the cost of living. They should be raised for that reason alone.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...d-for-decades/

[TKshreve]

Bottom line is wages have not kept up with the cost of living. They should be raised for that reason alone.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...d-for-decades/

Another wage ratio that seems to be catching steam is the compensation ratio of executive pay to lowest and/or median paid employee. This allows you to compare wage disparity and income inequality to whatever generation or year you would like. It also provides a glowing example of how capitalism has become a rigged, runaway train that most favors the rich and elite.

[Richard]

^ that is no different in any other country no matter what the system is in place,always has been always will be,some posters here have made it clear about our money our rules.How is that any different?

The difference is that in this country,you also have the opportunity to become the rich and elite.

Edited for spelling at 2:59 est.

[Canadian Visitor]

The difference is that in this country,you also have the opportunity to become the rich and elite.
.

Actually, you don't.

That's whole point of this thread.

Social mobility.

You have less opportunity to move up the economic ladder in the United States than in most other developed countries.

It didn't used to be that way. It doesn't have to be that way.

But it IS that way.

The point of this thread being to discuss how to change that.

[TKshreve]

Actually, you don't.

That's whole point of this thread.

Social mobility.

You have less opportunity to move up the economic ladder in the United States than in most other developed countries.

It didn't used to be that way. It doesn't have to be that way.

But it IS that way.

The point of this thread being to discuss how to change that.

Hahaha... you just can't make this stuff up anymore.

[Richard]

Actually, you don't.

That's whole point of this thread.

Social mobility.

You have less opportunity to move up the economic ladder in the United States than in most other developed countries.

It didn't used to be that way. It doesn't have to be that way.

But it IS that way.

The point of this thread being to discuss how to change that.

Actually you do,but it is like anything else if you constantly tell yourself and other that you cannot or they cannot then they will not.

It is called positive thinking and if your negative thinking was mainstream you would never see a start up.

It is no different now then it used to be,either you are born with it or you are not,if you are not then you have to do the same thing that millions of others have done for generations,take the risk,and make the sacrifices necessary to obtain your goals.

The newspaper is full everyday of new start ups,they do not come out of a box of corn flakes,those are real people taking risk.

Of course one can always sit behind a screen and say it is impossible all day long and it will become impossible for them.

This is just simple adult and common sense stuff,so for somebody to act completely oblivious to the way things work,one really needs to question what the agenda really is.

It seems to me anyways everything that you are posting is stating the obvious and providing no solutions other then getting the govenment involved in everybody's life from cradle to grave,some do not need govenment regulations on how to wipe thier rear end.

The solution to everything is not throwing the government at everything.

You posted about kids in school should not be allowed to work or the government should dictate when they can and cannot.

You do realize there are already federal,state and local laws that already address this very thing in our country so why look for a solution to a problem that does not exist?

The United States new start ups is over 45,000 no country in the world even comes close to that,Canada is 4th India smokes you guys,and they cannot even get power to half of thier country.

https://www.startupranking.com/countries

You do have a computer and google correct?