It's HOT and Beach is Closed, again

**O3H** · June-28-18, 03:12 PM

When the sun comes out, after a hard rainfall NO BEACH
- due to contaminated polluted stormdrain runoff

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/beach/Bea...px?BeachID=545

How you like them apples ? 90 F and no beach access

**O3H** · June-28-18, 08:14 PM

But yet Macomb County holds a major fishing tournament
- after hard rains fall upon 760 Square Miles of Clinton River WaterShed
dumping sediment and runoff into Lake St Clair -- woo hooo , yummy bass

Don't eat the fish - don't go to the beach - stay home its hot

**Johnnny5** · June-28-18, 08:52 PM

I'm all for reducing pollution flowing into St. Clair, but the main issue with Metro Beach isn't so much that Lake St. Clair is horribly polluted [[It's actually cleaner than it has been in decades). The problem is that Metro Beach sits right between the two largest sources of contaminated runoff [[The Clinton River and the Spillway). When the winds are right that runoff water stacks up along the shore and can't get back out into the lake. It traps all waterfowl waste, sewer overflow and runoff from the roads, lawns etc. Even if the combined sewers were eliminated and the overflow issues were solved the area would still have water quality issues due to its location.

You can easily see this on any aerial view of the lake. The dark water sits along shore, but just a mile or two out it's greenish blue. Many of the marinas and launches in that area regularly get clogged with wind blown weeds and woody debris that gets trapped there the same way.

**MrMichigan** · June-29-18, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

But yet Macomb County holds a major fishing tournament
- after hard rains fall upon 760 Square Miles of Clinton River WaterShed
dumping sediment and runoff into Lake St Clair -- woo hooo , yummy bass

Don't eat the fish - don't go to the beach - stay home its hot

Because fish are cold-blooded they do not carry E. coli.

https://dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub2401.htm

That being said, we definitely need to separate our sewers and reconsider the layout of our future developments. Case in point- Shelby Township. They are clearcutting acres of forest for new subdivisions and leaving no riparian zone to accomodate runoff.

**O3H** · June-29-18, 09:39 PM

That massive Fishing Tournament with some 40 lbs of fish as the prize grabber for 1 guy [[ meaning 200 people caught 35 lbs each) sure involved a lot Catch/Release --- and absolute zero fish fried as a result.

DNR basically tells everyone NOT to eat the fish they catch weekly.

**Johnnny5** · June-30-18, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

That massive Fishing Tournament with some 40 lbs of fish as the prize grabber for 1 guy [[ meaning 200 people caught 35 lbs each) sure involved a lot Catch/Release --- and absolute zero fish fried as a result.

DNR basically tells everyone NOT to eat the fish they catch weekly.

Probably a bass tournament, they're always catch and release no matter the location. I keep a lot of Walleye from the St. Clair River and occasionally a Smallmouth or two if it get roughed up too bad. There are some warnings about eating too many fish caught around those contaminated canals in St. Clair Shores and occasional warnings after sewage overflows, but the rest of the lake has fairly liberal safety limits for the non-bottom feeding species [[Which is typical for most lakes). Here's a link the DNR's recommendations.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,588...1465--,00.html

**Johnnny5** · June-30-18, 03:21 PM

Article about the runoff issues into St. Clair on Freep.com today.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...res/728342001/

**Honky Tonk** · June-30-18, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Article about the runoff issues into St. Clair on Freep.com today.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...res/728342001/

That's the problem, geese and gull poop!

**O3H** · June-30-18, 05:32 PM

The continuous MILLIONS of Gallons of Sewage come from humans.
Oakland and Macomb County - separate the sewers from stormwaters NOW

SCREW the GLWA - make them go to the FEDS and stop the CSO's
http://www.glwater.org/wp-content/up...e_06.29.18.pdf

**O3H** · June-30-18, 05:36 PM

So you bought a house on the lake - with a seawall.
Almost everyone who does this - also buys a POOL.
Why, because they CAN NOT SWIM off their seawall due to the gunk !!

Property values being affected by Combined Sewer Overflows.
Yeah the house, the property, that mortgage of $300,000 - $900,000
Jacked because we have a sewage system from the 1950's

High Tech SouthEast Michigan, engineers, software gurus, MY ASS !!!!
Settle for some really creative Civil Engineers to build WWTP, locally.
Skip this nonsense of retention basins, they never handle the rainfall.

**Jimaz** · June-30-18, 05:58 PM

That does it. I'm buying stock in a goose diaper company.

**O3H** · July-01-18, 08:06 AM

YEP still closed - Lake St. Clair - St. Clair Shores Memorial Park Beach

-- http://www.deq.state.mi.us/beach/Bea...px?BeachID=579

People need to realize that the HUMAN ecoli sticks to the sand
and it loves a warm wet environment [[bacteria tend to do that )

Is the Clinton River Spillway ""still"" a marvel , if it shuts a beach for DECADES
http://www.macombdaily.com/general-n...neering-marvel

http://bit.ly/TwoBeachesProblem

**Colombian Dan** · July-01-18, 11:44 AM

My grandfather remembered arriving in Detroit in 1915 and seeing kids jumping off the Dix ave bridge into the Rouge River. Lots of fish and ducks in Baby Creek too. All that soon changed... He remembered outhouses were the norm in Southwest Detroit... then came the modern life. Indoor plumbing with hot water. The Ecorse Creek had a large flood plain where I-75 /Outer Drive and Lafayette Blvd are now in Lincoln Park. There was no real civil planning on how to deal with the housing developments and waste water along with storm run off during the period prior to 1940. Development pushed ahead without thinking about the hydrology of the metro area [[mostly a swamp). Existing streams, creeks and rivers were simply widened by manual labor at first, then steam shovels and excavators dug deeper and wider to increase water flow..[[think Rouge River and Red Run). The dilution theory of wastewater management was in full effect...and appears to still be...

"A May 1916 "Preliminary Report on Sewage Disposal for the City of Detroit" by Clarence Hubbell, concluded: "There are times when the current in the Detroit River is reversed and the water flows toward Lake St. Clair…for short periods of time due to strong easterly winds which raise the water level of Lake Erie at the mouth of the river, above the level of Lake St. Clair." This caused a back flow of river water and the pollutants dumped into it."

Until the Livingstone Channel was blasted out of the Detroit riverbed limestone in the 1920s and 30s, the Detroit River didn't flow fast enough to remove all the raw sewage which was dumped into it to prevent a back flow into the Belle Isle intake [[typhoid and cholera outbreaks in the summer).

**Zacha341** · July-01-18, 12:08 PM

^^^ Wow! Interesting. I've never known/ seen the Detroit river run backwards towards St. Clair!

**Jimaz** · July-01-18, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

^^^ Wow! Interesting. I've never known/ seen the Detroit river run backwards towards St. Clair!

Here's a brief academic paper on it: Detroit River Flow Reversals. It seems to be based on simulations.

This study shows that Detroit River flow reversals, although relatively rare, are likely to occur. The simulated reversals appear to be of limited duration, less than 12 hours, with maximum flows in the order of 4,250 m³s^-1 or less. Their relatively low frequency is due to the unique conditions that appear to be prerequisite for a flow reversal. A severe ice jam must first take place on the St. Clair River, substantially reducing the river flow, and must be of sufficient duration to lower the water level of Lake St. Clair to within 55 cm of Lake Erie. A positive storm surge or wind setup at the western end of Lake Erie, of relatively small magnitude, is then all that is required to establish the negative gradient in the river and reverse the flow.

They list 12 "possible" incidents between 1911 and 1948. So that averages out to about one event every three years.

**Honky Tonk** · July-01-18, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Here's a brief academic paper on it: Detroit River Flow Reversals. It seems to be based on simulations.They list 12 "possible" incidents between 1911 and 1948. So that averages out to about one event every three years.

Whenever that happens, and you listen late @ night, when it's quiet, you can faintly hear "I buried Paul..."

**O3H** · July-01-18, 02:01 PM

Sincerely appreciate the history lesson - thanks for sharing.

I'm thoroughly convinced that tearing up roads for re-construction SHOULD include a few $ Billion for sewer separation [[Toilet from Stormwater) in ALL 3 counties to prevent SSO and CSO events in FRESHWATER. We have it - everyone else in the world wants "our" freshwater, let's preserve it, not taint it.

**masterblaster** · July-01-18, 05:44 PM

We [[Metro Detroit) need to pass a massive infrastructural spending bill using sales tax + property tax to address: roads and bridges, rapid transit, and pollution of our waterways. Our lack of investment in our infrastructure is reducing the quality of life here and the viability of this area.

It's gonna hurt and we will have less money in our wallets, but we will be better for it. Maybe the result of such an initiative will raise our property values.