Business As Usual [[Shooting and Mayhem) in Greektown.

**SyGolden48236** · May-29-18, 06:12 AM

For the third time in as many days multiple people have been shot in the Greektown area. And it is not even summer yet.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/good-day/...it-s-greektown

**southen** · May-29-18, 06:55 AM

Alcohol and guns should never go together. I think it is time that these clubs start to do a better job of keeping people with guns out of their establishments. It is always Greektown that is in the news regarding this and I have to believe it is due to the concentration of clubs in the area.

**Maof** · May-29-18, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by southen

Alcohol and guns should never go together. I think it is time that these clubs start to do a better job of keeping people with guns out of their establishments. It is always Greektown that is in the news regarding this and I have to believe it is due to the concentration of clubs in the area.

Agree! I tell my kids to avoid Greektown if they're heading downtown.

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-18, 07:06 AM

3 shootings in 4 days — in the same vicinity no less — is completely and totally unacceptable. Greektown business owners, DPD, the Mayor’s office, Dan Gilbert...they need to come in with a strong crackdown on this NOW.

The cameras have been effective at nabbing perpetrators, but they need 4-5x the law enforcement on foot to preempt this nonsense. Even if it’s just between 11 pm and 3 am.

**Honky Tonk** · May-29-18, 07:36 AM

Curious, for those of us who aren't "hip" to today's night scene, which are the problem clubs causing this?

**Meddle** · May-29-18, 07:37 AM

^^ I remember a time when it was hard to get down Monroe because of all the scout cars.

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-18, 08:00 AM

I don’t even think it’s problem clubs [[plural). Historically, the main culprit has been Niki’s Lounge. Some of the patrons coming out of there have been bringing behavior problems to Greektown for years.

http://nikisloungedetroit.com/

But there are a few problems:

1) I don’t think you can hold an establishment responsible for the behavior of your patrons once they’ve left.

2) Just in general, Greektown on hot summer nights sometimes feels like a tinder box where one wrong move and a fight will break out. One wrong fight and then shots are fired. Especially 10 pm and later.

It kind of reminds me of what Rivertown felt like before DPD started enforcing noise violations and stepping up their presence there.

**DetroitSoldier** · May-29-18, 08:07 AM

I dont bother taking out of town guests to Greektown anymore. 15 year or more years ago it was the center of downtown entertainment, but in the last decade other downtown enclaves have become more attractive and provide a better experience. Greektown has lost its identity. I hope long standing businesses there like Astoria are still doing okay.

**Lowell** · May-29-18, 09:07 AM

If all gunfights ended like this Westside shootout from Friday and our gun violence problems would be solved. No revenge necessary.

Timeless story, two guys, two guns, one girl. Toss in the full moon phase [full today] and 90 degree weather and as Mark Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure rhymes."

Gunbattle at gas station in Detroit leaves 2 dead
Aleanna Siacon Detroit Free Press USA TODAY NETWORK

After what Detroit police called a “close quarter gunbattle,” two people were shot and killed outside a Clark gas station about 5:30 a.m. on the city's west side.

According to a preliminary report, the shooting happened on the 15000 block of Schaefer.

A 25-year-old man was fatally shot in the head and a 39-year-old man was fatally shot in the chest. Each was armed with a handgun, the police report said, and a 25-year-old woman witnessed the incident,.

The 39-year-old was the current boyfriend of the witness. According to the report, he agreed to meet the 25-year-old, who was her ex-boyfriend, at the gas station.

Upon meeting, the report said the two men engaged in a heated argument, then both produced handguns and simultaneously shot each other.

Medics were called, the report said, but both men died at the scene.

http://freep.mi.newsmemory.com/publi...reid=1770d684d

**stasu1213** · May-29-18, 11:20 AM

More police presence is needed for the area. Only in Detroit that shootings occur in the most popular entertainment district. Try that in any other major city across the country. The "fighting over a woman" story is being spun by the media and the Chief of Police. Obviously these criminals don't care about where they are for last year there were a shooting on Woodward near Hart Plaza during the fireworks. Police was reportedly close by. Detroit need to find out what are other major cities secrets of quelling violence in their downtown areas especially during large events. Some would say that Las Vegas had a shooting. As sad as that was but it wasn't an ongoing occurrence but it was an act of a terrorist. Detroit problem is that there are people who both White and Black who feel that they have nothing to lost and bring their low mentality with them

**Honky Tonk** · May-29-18, 11:24 AM

Then there's this one too:

https://detne.ws/2sopuLA

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-18, 11:49 AM

Some would say that Las Vegas had a shooting. As sad as that was but it wasn't an ongoing occurrence but it was an act of a terrorist. Detroit problem is that there are people who both White and Black who feel that they have nothing to lost and bring their low mentality with them

Exactly. Las Vegas was singular incident. 3 shootings in 4 days on the same strip isn't an incident. It’s an f-ing warzone.

Could you imagine if the same bank was robbed 3x in four days?! Or the same pizza place held up at gunpoint 3x in four days??

This is completely insane and needs to be shut down now.

**Shai_Hulud** · May-29-18, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

2) Just in general, Greektown on hot summer nights sometimes feels like a tinder box where one wrong move and a fight will break out. One wrong fight and then shots are fired. Especially 10 pm and later.

This is definitely part of it. I avoid greektown nights and weekends for this exact reason. It's way too crowded. I would almost say DPD needs to enforce a maximum occupancy on Monroe, but with the Casino I don't think it's possible.

**Zacha341** · May-29-18, 12:45 PM

I'm sorta done with GT at this point; I can get similar great mediterranean food elsewhere across SE Michigan. I don't like some of the 'styling and profiling' short-fuse clusters and don't choose to be part of a shooting, or the related stampede, melee to avoid such.

It was once safer -- I don't see that returning. What? Are they going to have police walking three abreast the whole perimeter?

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Exactly. Las Vegas was singular incident. 3 shootings in 4 days on the same strip isn't an incident. It’s an f-ing warzone.

Could you imagine if the same bank was robbed 3x in four days?! Or the same pizza place held up at gunpoint 3x in four days??

This is completely insane and needs to be shut down now.

**401don** · May-29-18, 01:32 PM

Obviously you want to discourage the wrong element from congregating in a tourist area. One partial solution might be to address the size and type of venue allowed in Greektown. I live in a Toronto suburb. Here the "clubs" are required to be in industrial areas, away from other residential and retail, just as strip clubs are. It can get politically sensitive but I believe there are ways of addressing it through bylaws that would at least improve things.

**SyGolden48236** · May-29-18, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Maof

Agree! I tell my kids to avoid Greektown if they're heading downtown.

Our children were forbidden to go into Detroit when they were teenagers [[they are now in their early twenties) as were most of their friends.

Our 23 year old son understands that there is almost nothing down there that he can't get elsewhere without all of the hassle and danger. Between the rampant disregard for stop signs, red lights and other assorted traffic ordinances, the open hostility of many of the inhabitants of that city and the general lawlessness it is quite unsafe. Even Danny's Disneyland Downtown isn't quite so safe in spite of all of his cameras and private police. This past weekend's atrocities in Greektown bare testimony to this fact. And the areas between Gilbert's bubble and the city borders are even worse.

The kids will go to the occasional ball game but they know to park in the stadium parking structures and jump right on the freeway when the game is over. They do not linger down there after the event.

**Warrenite84** · May-29-18, 06:10 PM

Greektown has been a little crazy for a long time. I've been going there since the early 1980's and has always had gun crime issues. I was at The Golden Fleece when there was a shootout at that top floor club in Trapper's Alley in the 1990's. At least a dozen cops swarmed the street when that went down.

Sadly, too many bad apples try to pull crap when they think they can get away with it; talking trash and too quick to take offense. If extra cops are brought in, maybe with a little more autonomy, perhaps the bad apples would behave or move on. I have a lot of respect for the Police who try to keep the peace. Its just sad to see society less civil and kind to their neighbor.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-29-18, 08:09 PM

It’s between a rock and a hard place on the homicides in Detroit.

What other alternative is there besides smarter neighborhood policing, more spending on police/prosecution and stricter sentencing for illegal gun crimes?

Every tool in the box has to be put in play. It isn’t just a Greek Town issue, it is a city wide cancer that has to been destroying Detroit for a long time.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...end/650625002/

**swingline** · May-30-18, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

Our children were forbidden to go into Detroit when they were teenagers [[they are now in their early twenties) as were most of their friends.

Our 23 year old son understands that there is almost nothing down there that he can't get elsewhere without all of the hassle and danger. Between the rampant disregard for stop signs, red lights and other assorted traffic ordinances, the open hostility of many of the inhabitants of that city and the general lawlessness it is quite unsafe. Even Danny's Disneyland Downtown isn't quite so safe in spite of all of his cameras and private police. This past weekend's atrocities in Greektown bare testimony to this fact. And the areas between Gilbert's bubble and the city borders are even worse.

The kids will go to the occasional ball game but they know to park in the stadium parking structures and jump right on the freeway when the game is over. They do not linger down there after the event.

Oy vey SyGolden! Myth-making from the not so distant suburbs.

**Jason** · May-30-18, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

Our children were forbidden to go into Detroit when they were teenagers [[they are now in their early twenties) as were most of their friends.

Our 23 year old son understands that there is almost nothing down there that he can't get elsewhere without all of the hassle and danger. Between the rampant disregard for stop signs, red lights and other assorted traffic ordinances, the open hostility of many of the inhabitants of that city and the general lawlessness it is quite unsafe. Even Danny's Disneyland Downtown isn't quite so safe in spite of all of his cameras and private police. This past weekend's atrocities in Greektown bare testimony to this fact. And the areas between Gilbert's bubble and the city borders are even worse.

The kids will go to the occasional ball game but they know to park in the stadium parking structures and jump right on the freeway when the game is over. They do not linger down there after the event.

Soon you'll be packing up their childhood bedrooms and hidden under their mattresses you'll find hard copies of Detroit Economic Club meeting transcripts with photos of successful republican businessman Dan Gilbert used as bookmarks.

You'll confront them with this. They'll tell you they like Detroit. They'll be afraid of how you'll respond. But soon you'll adjust to this new reality and you'll love them just the same.

**iheartthed** · May-30-18, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by southen

Alcohol and guns should never go together. I think it is time that these clubs start to do a better job of keeping people with guns out of their establishments. It is always Greektown that is in the news regarding this and I have to believe it is due to the concentration of clubs in the area.

Problematic nightclubs always pat people down when entering. That's why the shootings happen outside, when the perps have had time to go back to their car and get their guns.

Also it's illegal to bring guns into a bar...

**iheartthed** · May-30-18, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Some would say that Las Vegas had a shooting. As sad as that was but it wasn't an ongoing occurrence but it was an act of a terrorist. Detroit problem is that there are people who both White and Black who feel that they have nothing to lost and bring their low mentality with them

Even removing the massacre, Las Vegas still has a gun violence problem.
It doesn't get more attention because the homicide rates are reported to the FBI at the county level, which obscures it.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...las-vegas.html

The takeaway point is that something has to be done about the guns. That is the common thread to all of these stories.

**Honky Tonk** · May-30-18, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Even removing the massacre, Las Vegas still has a gun violence problem.
It doesn't get more attention because the homicide rates are reported to the FBI at the county level, which obscures it.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...las-vegas.html

The takeaway point is that something has to be done about the guns. That is the common thread to all of these stories.

From the article itself:

"What accounts for the proliferation of violence in Las Vegas and other cities is not clear, and the question has been hotly debated. But Clark County sheriff Joseph Lombardo pinned at least some of the blame on gangs that have migrated from California. Domestic violence and young men who are quick to resort to violence appear to be common threads in the killings."

**bust** · May-30-18, 01:44 PM

And smoking doesn't cause cancer.
People who smoke cause cancer.

Tobacco industry casts doubt on scientific research. Part 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kgQQKE3F9M

**Atticus** · May-30-18, 01:51 PM

This is a side effect of a revitalized downtown. Unfortunate, yes... but still a side effect.

The redevelopment downtown over the last few years has brought a lot more people to the city center, especially over the weekends. Downtown has become the place to be, and Greektown is one of the central gathering points in the city center.

Unlike the restaurant and bars in Gilbert’s area which mostly cater to higher income groups and hipsters, there are still many establishments in Greektown that still cater to moderate and lower income groups that are more likely to being involved in these types of scuffles.

Add alcohol, summer heat, and/or guns to the equation, and these events tend to happen. It should be noted that this is not a problem unique to Detroit. Chicago, Atlanta, DC, or any other major city has these same issues.