Your leaders north of 8 mile are idiots

[Detroit Stylin]

• L. Brooks Patterson and Mark Hackel begin push for SMART property tax renewal
• Hackel warns millage renewal in Macomb County at risk because of ongoing debate over RTA
• Suburban leaders are at odds with Detroit, Wayne County plans

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20180522/news/661416/oakland-macomb-leaders-abandon-regional-transit-authority-in-favor-of

[O3H]

I haven't seen the designation of Genius and Mark Hackel in the media, regardless of what format the info is presented in.

[mtburb]

I lived in Warren for five years [[2004-2009). To me that was enough to me to convince that I just had to move back to Wayne County, since I still had relatives and friends there.

[Meddle]

...

Your post is nothing but a link. No information to go on.

[Scottathew]

I lived in Warren for five years [[2004-2009). To me that was enough to me to convince that I just had to move back to Wayne County, since I still had relatives and friends there.

I lived in Warren from 2006-2013 and ran to Rochester Hills for the better schools, reduced crime, stable city government, and more recreational opportunities. Center Line Public Schools are very poor.

[Scottathew]

I'm disappointed that Patterson and Hackel aren't onboard with more regional thinking.

However, that said, I really wish that an RTA proposal would mean this:

- Disbanding of SMART, DDOT, People Mover, M1 Rail, etc...
- The regional authority operates all buses in the region, M1 Rail, and the People Mover
- Short-term, BRT is put into place to move people into and out of Downtown Detroit, as well as any other key corridors
- Long-term, grade separated rail [[subway or elevated) is put on certain high-volume key routes

I'm for more public transit, but hate the idea of getting it via yet another overlapping, competing service

[dtowncitylover]

I'm for more public transit, but hate the idea of getting it via yet another overlapping, competing service

It is neither an overlapping or competing service. It is a governing body which will coordinate and enhance existing transit providers. The only thing that the RTA will have a direct hand in operating is the Detroit-Ann Arbor commuter rail.

The RTA needs to exist in order to provide ONE voice for the region. But it also needs to be properly funded and given actual authority in order to be taken seriously by the federal government.

The SMART millage will go to existing service while the RTA millage will go to staffing the agency, executing the plan, and thus becoming a formal agency with the power we so desperately need.

[Scottathew]

It is neither an overlapping or competing service. It is a governing body which will coordinate and enhance existing transit providers. The only thing that the RTA will have a direct hand in operating is the Detroit-Ann Arbor commuter rail.

Will it result in more buses or BRT being paid for by the RTA millage? My understanding was the RTA meant BRT in key corridors.

The way I'm interpreting you is that it's just a layer of management providing little benefit, but I assume\hope that I'm not understanding you correctly.

[iheartthed]

Will it result in more buses or BRT being paid for by the RTA millage? My understanding was the RTA meant BRT in key corridors.

The way I'm interpreting you is that it's just a layer of management providing little benefit, but I assume\hope that I'm not understanding you correctly.

The RTA was the first step in doing exactly what you wanted: merging the disjointed systems.

[Scottathew]

The RTA was the first step in doing exactly what you wanted: merging the disjointed systems.

Cool, if that's the case, then I'm on-board.

[iheartthed]

Cool, if that's the case, then I'm on-board.

Additionally, Detroit isn't competitive for federal funding of mass transit projects due to not having an RTA established.

[dtowncitylover]

Will it result in more buses or BRT being paid for by the RTA millage? My understanding was the RTA meant BRT in key corridors.

The way I'm interpreting you is that it's just a layer of management providing little benefit, but I assume\hope that I'm not understanding you correctly.

Connect SE Michigan does not include BRT. It includes funding more buses that will be used go headways can be 15 minutes all day every day for major routes, 15 minute headways for secondary routes during rush hour, airport express routes, and commuter park and ride routes, along with AA-Detroit commuter rail.

So yes, the new millage will include initially 5.4 billion over 20 years [[NOT including federal dollars we need to capture which could provide billions more) for the transit agencies to have more service and resources to operate better.

I take back some of what I said about commuter rail. Commuter rail will most likely be governed by the RTA but outsourced to a company that knows how to operate such systems.

Agency consolidation is near impossible due to union contracts, customer relations, and operational systems. Most, if not all, of North America's regional authorities are not a single unit. There could a suburban department, city department, bus departments, rail departments, etc. But they're all under one regional authority. When/if this plan is passed, the next step is implementation when we start to see coordination happening between the agencies and the RTA will actually have AUTHORITY to get shit done.

[O3H]

Senior citizens who can't or shouldn't drive due to blood thinners, oxygen tanks, etc. really, truly, have NO great way to get to doctor appointments. I tried the SMART system for my my mom a few times, arranging appointments, etc. - a complete disaster, fiasco, nightmare. Simply not reliable, I gave up on it completely.

[Bham1982]

Senior citizens who can't or shouldn't drive due to blood thinners, oxygen tanks, etc. really, truly, have NO great way to get to doctor appointments.

What's wrong with Uber?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I'm disappointed that Patterson and Hackel aren't onboard with more regional thinking.

However, that said, I really wish that an RTA proposal would mean this:

- Disbanding of SMART, DDOT, People Mover, M1 Rail, etc...
- The regional authority operates all buses in the region, M1 Rail, and the People Mover
- Short-term, BRT is put into place to move people into and out of Downtown Detroit, as well as any other key corridors
- Long-term, grade separated rail [[subway or elevated) is put on certain high-volume key routes

I'm for more public transit, but hate the idea of getting it via yet another overlapping, competing service

They never have been on board. Detroit is the worst major city in the US when it comes to mass transit. Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, etc.. have all past us by. They always seem to think if they have anything to do with Detroit, they're going to get screwed, especially L Brooks. He's always been divisive towards Detroit for 40 years running. He's greedy and only wants to see things his way. That's why until we get new leadership that is willing to work for the good of ALL SE Michigan, we will continue to run in quicksand.

[dtowncitylover]

What's wrong with Uber?

FFS. For senior citizens? Let's count the ways. Costs. SMART ADA service is $3 each way. Can Uber/Lyft provide the same low-cost service? No. Convenience for seniors who might be disabled or otherwise need help. Scheduling and pick ups in areas Uber/Lyft aren't readily available. The fact senior citizens have no idea what Uber and Lyft are and are less likely to have a smart phone.

They can definitely use Uber/Lyft if they care to, but to get rid of paratransit thinking the "market" will service them is outrageous.

[O3H]

Thank you Dtowncitylover - you beat me to it, regarding Uber/Seniors
Senior citizens on fixed incomes, don't have much money for that stuff.

[Don K]

FFS. For senior citizens? Let's count the ways. Costs. SMART ADA service is $3 each way. Can Uber/Lyft provide the same low-cost service? No. Convenience for seniors who might be disabled or otherwise need help. Scheduling and pick ups in areas Uber/Lyft aren't readily available. The fact senior citizens have no idea what Uber and Lyft are and are less likely to have a smart phone.

They can definitely use Uber/Lyft if they care to, but to get rid of paratransit thinking the "market" will service them is outrageous.

Exactly. If you're in a wheelchair and can't transfer into a sedan, Uber in some dude's Fusion/Accord ain't gonna cut it. Having said that, the SMART ADA service is suboptimal. When you say you have to be in this place at this time for an appointment they give you a pickup time, but they can be up to 15 minutes early or late, and if they're late you're going to be late for the appointment. Oh, and if they're early you still have two minutes to bundle up against winter weather and get out to the bus or they'll leave you behind. And god help you if you have two appointments scheduled on the same day.

By good fortune my husband and I are prosperous enough to be able to afford a wheelchair van, so we have left the vagaries of SMART behind.

[archfan]

What's wrong with Uber?

I dare you to try to teach my 80 y/o dad how to get an Uber.

[Bigdd]

, especially L Brooks. He's always been divisive towards Detroit for 40 years running. He's greedy and only wants to see things his way. .

Exactly how many tens or hundreds of millions more should the other counties throw at Detroit?

I think people here are mistaken about the job of a county exec. Their job is not to engage in expensive social experiments,.. or to see how much of their constituents money they can send to other counties. It's to frugally run the county they represent.

L. Brooks has done a great job of that. Even in the tough times of 2009-2013,.. his foresight and fiscal policies held it together. Still, money is tight there. OC is supposed to maintain and repave the streets. But they don't have the money,.. so sub-divisions are having to pay the bill themselves. That means after paying their taxes,.. home owners have to cut a check for $35,000 when it comes time to re-do the street.

[softailrider]

Exactly how many tens or hundreds of millions more should the other counties throw at Detroit?

I think people here are mistaken about the job of a county exec. Their job is not to engage in expensive social experiments,.. or to see how much of their constituents money they can send to other counties. It's to frugally run the county they represent.

L. Brooks has done a great job of that. Even in the tough times of 2009-2013,.. his foresight and fiscal policies held it together. Still, money is tight there. OC is supposed to maintain and repave the streets. But they don't have the money,.. so sub-divisions are having to pay the bill themselves. That means after paying their taxes,.. home owners have to cut a check for $35,000 when it comes time to re-do the street.

Not too sure your last few sentences are correct. I have a friend in Troy, his entire subdivision streets were redone and they weren’t even that bad. I don’t think there was an assessment at all or I would have heard about it.
I live in Bloomfield Township and the streets are appalling. The absolute worst of ANY municipality I’ve driven through. The street right in front of my house looks like it’s been bombed. Calls to the Road commission lead to bewildering answers from them and some woefully inadequate patchwork in response to complaints.

[Scottathew]

OC is supposed to maintain and repave the streets. But they don't have the money,.. so sub-divisions are having to pay the bill themselves. That means after paying their taxes,.. home owners have to cut a check for $35,000 when it comes time to re-do the street.

In Rochester Hills the subdivision streets are maintained by the city. Subdivisions are initially paved by the developer and in most cases are handed over to the city when at least 85% of the houses have been sold. If your subdivision chose to have gravel roads, then Rochester Hills will maintain the gravel road. There is also an SAD process that a subdivision can go through to get the street paved. The city will do the engineering and pay the contractors up front, and then the residents partially reimburse the city via a SAD over the next 10-15 years.

Your statement is not true for my Oakland County city.

[Bham1982]

I live in Bloomfield Township and the streets are appalling. The absolute worst of ANY municipality I’ve driven through. The street right in front of my house looks like it’s been bombed. Calls to the Road commission lead to bewildering answers from them and some woefully inadequate patchwork in response to complaints.

That's the township's job. The county has no jurisdiction over your local roads.

And, yeah, Bloomfield Twp. has abysmal roads. Franklin Rd. was like driving through Kandahar or Kabul until they recently repaved.

The twp. is weird. Some of its public services are outstanding. The library is probably best in the state and there are all kinds of amenities like the nature center and sidewalks everywhere. But it took 20 years to finally combine the high schools, the roads are crap, and taxes are very high for a twp.

[dtowncitylover]

Exactly how many tens or hundreds of millions more should the other counties throw at Detroit?

I think people here are mistaken about the job of a county exec. Their job is not to engage in expensive social experiments,.. or to see how much of their constituents money they can send to other counties. It's to frugally run the county they represent.

L. Brooks has done a great job of that. Even in the tough times of 2009-2013,.. his foresight and fiscal policies held it together. Still, money is tight there. OC is supposed to maintain and repave the streets. But they don't have the money,.. so sub-divisions are having to pay the bill themselves. That means after paying their taxes,.. home owners have to cut a check for $35,000 when it comes time to re-do the street.

You're not wrong about the job of the county executive, however it's also not the job of the county executive to isolate their county, or try to, against the "dangers" of regionalism. He's supposed to be a leader, instead he built a wall around Oakland County [[which has slowly yet surely been crumbling and now he's lashing out) and has refused to understand the complexities of regional transit and the need for a strong urban core.

This isn't about sending money off to other counties. Considering we've been giving money to the feds for 2 generations so that they can dole it out to other metro areas to build their transit systems, I'd say I am happy with sending my money across Dequindre or 8 Mile so that the region can have effective transit.

I've now heard that money is tight here in the OC and that our county keeps growing and getting wealthier. Which is it?

[Bigdd]

Not too sure your last few sentences are correct. ........
I live in Bloomfield Township and the streets are appalling. The absolute worst of ANY municipality I’ve driven through. The street right in front of my house looks like it’s been bombed. Calls to the Road commission lead to bewildering answers from them and some woefully inadequate patchwork in response to complaints.

Yes, exactly. I have a property there too. And IF you want something actually done about the roads,.. you and your HOA or whatever will have to pay for it.

Initially,.. years ago,.. a new road was engineered and built at the sub's expense,... then they gifted it to the Oak County Road Commission,.. then the Road Com is supposed to maintain it. They will do small patches,.. sometimes, but you will hit a dead end trying to get them to rebuild it these days.

51% of your HOA will have to vote to get an estimate,.. then have a meeting,.. then if you go ahead, OC will do the engineering and give you an estimate,.. then you will need to vote to actually do it. Then an SAD is set up,... and wither you either stroke a check for $35k,.. or a lean goes against your house and you can finance it through the SAD over 15 years [[the longest they are allowed to finance it for, as that's the expected life of the road etc). And good luck selling the house if the SAD isn't paid off.

Financing that equates to an extra $3,200+ a year at 4.75% interest.

28 or 32 subdivisions have already had to do that in the last few years,.. and a dozen more are in process.

Sending even more hundreds of millions to Detroit would only make the problem worse.