Old Hand Me Down Plane Crashed...

[Zacha341]

It's one thing to drive 30+ year old cars. 39+ year old air craft! Umm, no. Truly tragic crash.

Hand-Me-Down Plane That Crashed Reflects a Cuban Air Industry in Crisis

[Meddle]

"The B-52 has been in active service with the USAF since 1955. As of December 2015, 58 were in active service with 18 in reserve."

"The B-52 completed sixty years of continuous service with its original operator in 2015. After being upgraded between 2013 and 2015, it is expected to serve into the 2050s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing...Stratofortress


The age of a plane doesn't mean much if properly maintained.

[Zacha341]

Yes, we now that. The B-52s for example are very well maintained. I am sure this old Boeing 747 was not. Age, conditions and lack of proper, timely maintenance is a recipe for all kinds of malfunctions and failures.

[Johnnny5]

I've never been to Cuba, but while visiting relatives last week I caught the tail end of a show detailing a cross Cuba trip by rail. If their planes are anything like their trains it would take a fifth of Rum and a hand cart to get me on one. And I'd probably still refuse without a parachute!

It's sad to see that Cubans are still being put in danger by the embargo. Communism is on its last leg, and the USSR has been gone for decades. The only thing keeping the embargo alive is the grudge being held by the now elderly Americans and Cuban refugees that are still sore over losing some money [[Much of which was mob related or unearned/undeserved in the first place).

[Richard]

US sugar holds more sway then next generation mob guys that transitioned into legit business.

Cubas allies are China, Iran, Bolivia, Russia, Vietnam, Laos, Brazil, Venezuela, and the most of countries in South America...

Our embargo only covers US friendly countries,the rest all pretty much resembles
the system in common where the ones at the top eat in palaces while the minions eat in huts.They still can trade with any of their allies.

Cubans were poor before we had anything to do with the embargo,during the civil war 80% of their beef was bought out of the port of Tampa,they could not raise cows there,up until the embargo 90% of the sugar consumed in the US came from Cuba but was subsidized by the US government,so we were propping them up back then.

They do not have the safety systems in place like our FAA and they can buy airplane parts from any number of countries,it goes back to the money has to come from somewhere and it does not work when the government takes care of your every need.

They had a special on tv where a female lawyer was being interviewed,she was hooking on the side so she could pay to remodel her apartment.

Here the PRs cannot stand the Cubans and the Cubans cannot stand the PRs so there is that drama going on,but you should really check it out if you can,the people are cool and friendly,generations growing up that way do not know the difference.

I feel safer riding on one of their 70 year old steam engine trains then on their airplanes,at least the trains are serviced by old school craftsmen that take pride in keeping those things going.

People are boycotting the travel there because every business is connected as a partner with the government by law so they view supporting them is also supporting the government.

Really beautiful architecture,most of it in disrepair.

People are funny about Cuba though for some reason,they want to boycott every other country on the planet for human rights issues but turn a blind eye when it comes to Cuba for doing the exact same thing.

No matter where you go in the world everybody is the same,they want to raise their families and live life it's the politics that gets in the way,you can say that the people can make political changes to better their situations,like Detroit did but the difference there is the constant oppression and the elimination of the opposition,people that stand up against the currant regimes just disappear.

Embargo or not it is their choice,but even in this country there seem to be many that desire that way of life without knowing what the consequences are.

But at the end of the day it is a communist centric country and the majority of the people like it like that but still want the benefits that the US dollar provides,it becomes two different systems clashing with wanting to have your cake and eating it to,it does not work.

[canuck]

Richard, at the time Castroland got to revolverate, the U.S. wasn't all the picture of democracy and civic rights it made itself out to be. Nobody put an embargo on your country in spite of that. It's more a matter of the pilot fish cruising about the Great White Shark.

[Richard]

We are a republic,to me the embargo is really meaningless,it is just like all of the rest of the Latin American countries in the past,brutal dictatorship after brutal dictatorship with a pause inbetween with a democratic brutal dictatorship.

Trade with them is pointless because they do not have any money,they need or would like everything nice but that takes funds.

China can supply them with fake reproduction aircraft parts so there is really nothing they need that they cannot get anyways.

Used to be Americans flew to Canada then to Cuba but outside of the coolness of being stuck in the 50s look there is nothing really there that the other Latin America countries offer in better order.

The Miami crowd wants it to be democratic there,the citizens want it to be socialist,the embargo is just words.

If we said tomorrow,okay no embargo unless we dump billions in or another loans them billions, they have no money to even trade and even if we dumped billions in it is government controlled and the money would go to the government and not the people anyways.

90 miles to Cuba by boat,50 miles to the Bahamas by boat,I can buy a house in the Bahamas but with the Cuban government as it is,it would be insane to invest in Cuba and never really leagly own your investment.

Chavaz taking outsiders property and factory's proves Latin America investment is subject to who the currant dictator is and subject to change,high risk.

I guess the point is,saying that the embargo hurts the little guy is not really the case,because they choose to live under the type of government that they do,it will remain as it always has been,no matter what we do.

They want that way of life so who are we to try and force them otherwise.

We as a country can be self sufficient so for somebody to put an embargo on us is kinda pointless,US sugar took over the sugar industry,Brazil supplies us with bananas and orange juice,Cuba really has nothing anymore to trade with.

Useless bits of information,but years ago I bought an 1968 Mercedes from a retired lady in Miami,it had been smuggled into the country from Cuba in a shipping container filled with bananas,she showed me the pictures when I bought it from her.So we were still doing trade with them at that time embargo or not.

[bust]

Richard, I said I'd try to stop correcting your misrepresentations of fact, but these last ones are too easy...

The US is highly reliant on imports, and in fact imports 100% of 20 different minerals:

Risk and Reliance: The U.S. Economy and Mineral Resources
https://www.usgs.gov/news/risk-and-r...eral-resources

Not all of that is a bad thing, though, as long as we steer clear of trade wars. I descend partially from upper peninsula copper miners but I definitely do not think it would be good idea for copper production to return to the state. We're better off importing it as we do from Chile, Canada, and Mexico. Let's hope some knuckleheads don't mess that up by straining our trading relationships with them.

Besides that there is an abundance of research that shows that international trade reduces war. And the lack of it often leads to the opposite. That research comes from the right, the left, and from non-partisan sources. I've been criticized for sharing too many links so this time instead of spoon-feeding the evidence I'll encourage you to look for it yourself. It's easy to find.

Few of our bananas come from Brazil. Which is too bad because there are a lot of great varieties of bananas in Brazil you can't find in the US. In fact, the value of US imports of aircraft from Brazil equals the value of all agricultural products we import from Brazil combined. And orange juice? We import 10 times as much aircraft from Brazil as all fruit and vegetable juices combined. Billions of dollars more minerals, steel, iron, and machinery too.

Office of the US Trade Representative: Brazil
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/brazil

And that 1968 Mercedes snuck in from Cuba? How much did you pay for it? How many other old cars do you think are snuck in per year? Add it all up and it doesn't even amount to a drop in the bucket compared to the volume of international trade.

Meanwhile you suggest that ending the embargo would put money in the hands of the bad guys. That retired lady did business with an international smuggling ring. What quality of characters do you think she supported when she participated in organized crime? Opening up trade would be worse for Cubans than organized crime?

You say the money would go to the government, not the people. There are plenty of valid criticisms of the Cuban government, but robbing the people is not one of them. For example, Cuba provides surprisingly excellent education and medical care to all Cubans, especially considering how strapped they are for resources. Look how much they accomplish with so little, then take a hard look at ours.

And democratic dictatorship? Tell us what you meant by that one. No, feel free to keep that to yourself, please.

[Richard]

how about you take a deep breath and reread and comprehend what I posted before you start throwing out misrepresenting facts.

To keep it simple and for starters reread what I posted about the 68 Mercedes then read what your reply was to it,wtf.

[bust]

Valid point. I corrected it. You didn't directly participate in organized crime. You were a beneficiary, one step removed. There was no need to correct anything else in my post.

[Richard]

^ point is,you wrote it without comprehending or even reading what I wrote,so why would you feel the need to correct it.

You should really try getting out of that link filled academic bubble and learn a little about how the real world works,expirence it even.

You are so worried about organized crime,how is that unorganized crime working out for you?

Have you been to Cuba ? Or are you just baseing your input on fluff media links.

Shure they have free healthcare,such as it is,free roof over their head,and excellent education,but that is not for their benefit.

A majority of those living in government provided housing do so with no maintenance provided and a simple water line repair can take months to get repaired,or how about living in an apartment block with two bedrooms provided for 3 families where the raw sewage has been backing up into the courtyard for over 3 months,imagine 300 people flushing toilets everyday,send your kids out to play.

You want water and power,okay maybe,you will get it when we give it to you ,you want to complain about it on the Internet? Well you cannot because you cannot have Internet and if you do complain you get your ass kicked and your family can now find a nice little ditch to live in.

You keep your mouth shut and comply.

Plane crashes,200 die, what are you going to do about it? Demand answers or accountability? You want to sue? Who,the owners which is the government? Good luck with that.

But hey they have free healthcare and education,that and two wooden nickels may get you an extra ration of rice for the month for what it is worth,the healthcare is based on your life value,you better hope your sickness is cheaper to resolve then your burial costs.

But really, before you start calling people out you should really go to Canada,jump on a flight to Cuba and find out how it is in the real world,and not what you are told by the propaganda machine.

Visiting the tourist parts do not count,explore the country where the real people live,I would recommend taking the trains internally and not the airlines for what it is worth.The trains have their own brand of excitement and push comes to shove you can always jump off.

But always remember you will be in a communist country so watch your back and trust nobody,most are pretty cool in spite of it all but all it takes is one and poof,your gone.

[bust]

I'm not here to defend Cuba. And no, I haven't been there. But I do know some Cubans very well. Twice, roommate well. And not Cuban-Americans whose parents or grandparents fled when Castro took over 60 years ago [[I know some of those too). Cubans who lived most of their lives there. I learned a lot from them about what's going on their country. I expect you won't believe it: they describe it very differently than you do.

I'm familiar with Latin America. Not all of it, but I know parts of it very well. From experience. Certainly better than most anyone who isn't from there. And real parts, not just tourist areas. I'm the only one between the two of us who is writing from there now, and not from a hotel.

From some of your other posts I gather you think Florida practically counts as the same thing. It sure doesn't. I know that because after Michigan and Latin America it's the third place I have the most family. I've spent lots of time there too.

I'm here to remind you to try to get your facts straight. And to temper how overconfidently you assert your opinions, especially when you're standing on shaky factual ground. You must not realize how often that happens. I've suggested it before: try limiting your posts to what you truly know about. There's way too much noise already. You'd still have a lot to say.

[Zacha341]

Well we're no longer on the list of safest airlines [[Delta and United were included last year) per AirlineRatings.com:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...airlines-2018/

The 20 safest airlines [[in alphabetical order)

1. Air New Zealand
2. Alaska Airlines
3. All Nippon Airways
4. British Airways
5. Cathay Pacific Airways
6. Emirates
7. Etihad Airways
8. EVA Air
9. Finnair
10. Hawaiian Airlines
11. Japan Airlines
12. KLM
13. Lufthansa
14. Qantas
15. Royal Jordanian Airlines
16. Scandinavian Airline System
17. Singapore Airlines
18. Swiss
19. Virgin Atlantic
20. Virgin Australia

Airlines banned from the EU

1. Afghanistan
2. Angola [[with the exception of TAAG Angola, which operates under restrictions and conditions)
3. Republic of the Congo
4. Democratic Republic of the Congo
5. Djibouti
6. Equatorial Guinea
7. Eritrea
8. Gabon [[with the exception of Nouvelle Air Affaires Gabon and Afrijet Business Service, which operate under restrictions and conditions)
9. Indonesia [[with the exception of Airfast Indonesia, Premiair, Garuda Indonesia, Citilink, Batik Air, Lion Air and Indonesia AirAsia)
10. Kazakhstan [[with the exception of Air Astana, cleared today)
11. Kyrgyzstan
12. Libya
13. Nepal
14. São Tomé and Príncipe
15. Sierra Leone
16. Sudan
17. Syria

As well as the following individual airlines

1. Blue Wing Airlines, Suriname
2. Iraqi Airways
3. Iran Aseman Airlines
4. Med-View Airline, Nigeria
5. Mustique Airways, St Vincent and the Grenadines
6. Air Urga, Ukraine
7. Air Zimbabwe

Which airlines have operational restrictions?

1. TAAG Angola Airlines
2. Comores Air Services, Comoros
3. Afrijet Business Service, Gabon
4. Nouvelle Air Affaires, Gabon
5. Iran Air
6. Air Koryo, North Korea

[Meddle]

Well we're no longer on the list of safest airlines [[Delta and United were included last year) per AirlineRatings.com:

The 20 safest airlines [[in alphabetical order)

1. .
2. Alaska Airlines
3. .
4. .
5. .
6. .
7. .
8. .
9. .
10. Hawaiian Airlines
11. .
12. .
13. .
14. .
15. .
16. .
17. .
18. .
19. .
20. .

Which 'we' are 'we're'?

[Zacha341]

Good catch, thanks...... there's hope yet.

But Delta is a large US carrier with a major hub [[ATL) compared to Alaska Airlines. Surprise they're off the list.

[Richard]

I'm not here to defend Cuba. And no, I haven't been there. But I do know some Cubans very well. Twice, roommate well. And not Cuban-Americans whose parents or grandparents fled when Castro took over 60 years ago [[I know some of those too). Cubans who lived most of their lives there. I learned a lot from them about what's going on their country. I expect you won't believe it: they describe it very differently than you do.

I'm familiar with Latin America. Not all of it, but I know parts of it very well. From experience. Certainly better than most anyone who isn't from there. And real parts, not just tourist areas. I'm the only one between the two of us who is writing from there now, and not from a hotel.

From some of your other posts I gather you think Florida practically counts as the same thing. It sure doesn't. I know that because after Michigan and Latin America it's the third place I have the most family. I've spent lots of time there too.

I'm here to remind you to try to get your facts straight. And to temper how overconfidently you assert your opinions, especially when you're standing on shaky factual ground. You must not realize how often that happens. I've suggested it before: try limiting your posts to what you truly know about. There's way too much noise already. You'd still have a lot to say.

Your kinda like the visitor who feels the need to make it your job.

If everything was hunky dory over there would you be speaking to Cubans here? Why did they come here when everything is free over there? Until you actually go there and expirence it,your really not in a position to be questioning others.

Why do immigrants come to this country,is it maybe for a chance at a better life?

They do have some highly educated doctors there that they rent out to other Latin American countries,the doctors salary is $65 per month in Cuba,when other countries need doctors and if for instance the doctors salary in that country is $500 a month the Cuban government collects the $500 but still pays the doctor $65.They make good profit on indentured servitude.

I do find it interesting that Hawaii and Alaska are listed,they fall under FAA guidelines,the recent one here where the turbine blades broke apart and the woman was sucked out the window is a repeat of another incident where the same thing happened but the plane crashed in a cornfield,they found a defect in one of the blades and had ordered a review,the investigation is on YouTube under FAA crash investigations.

It is like meddle posted,the maintenance is the key no matter what the age,there is a vintage Ford tri engine plane that is still seeing service as a tourist shuttle,its 1930 ish.

[MikeM]

How do you feel about them flying over your head?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Joyful! That's a point!

[Richard]

It looks like it is mostly going through rual or lightly populated path,maybe there is a reason?

I am about where the white dot is in Tampa,so as long as they stick to that path it should be okay,I wonder why they do not send them out over the water,unless Miami and Atlanta are stops.

Oddly enough on early Sunday mornings and with a clear sky you can count at least 30 chemtrails criss crossing up there from the international traffic,it looks pretty cool.

Mike how many of these would you fly?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV7nFXhL8QY

[Zacha341]

There's no amount of money that would have be aboard those.......

[Richard]

^ some of them are like motorized kites,notice on the early 1900s ones where the gas tank is located right above their heads.

You have to figure the gasoline engine was in its early stages back then and prone to failure,it would be like in the old cartoons when somebody got burned by fire,poof, you see the skeleton then dust.