Windsor Casino Rejects 2nd Tentative Agreement

[401don]

Employees must be feeling pretty confident about Windsor's economy. It was only a few years ago the unemployment rate was double digits. I think it's pretty rare for a union to reject a 2nd deal. Difficult to form an opinion but unskilled workers, housekeepers, etc., should be happy making more than the new $15.00 Ontario minimum wage shouldn't they?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ment/35067071/

[davewindsor]

Employees must be feeling pretty confident about Windsor's economy. It was only a few years ago the unemployment rate was double digits. I think it's pretty rare for a union to reject a 2nd deal. Difficult to form an opinion but unskilled workers, housekeepers, etc., should be happy making more than the new $15.00 Ontario minimum wage shouldn't they?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ment/35067071/

The union greed is absolutely ridiculous. It gives Windsor a bad name. Caesar's should pull out and the OLG should tear down the casino like the Windsor Racetrack. No one I know supports those retards. They're already paid a lot more than minimum wage and they were offered a $2.25 an hour wage increase plus a $1,600 sign on bonus for full timers and $1,200 for part-timers and they get huge tips on top of that.

I spoke to a black jack dealer at Greek Town a year ago and he told me he made $7 an hour plus tips. The tips made it double to triple. How is Caesar's supposed to compete with the comps offered by the Detroit 3? Caesar's has 2,300 employees on their payroll and they have to deal with this union BS?? It never turned a profit before it was run by Caesar's.

Tear the casino down and those union pricks can go collect welfare or get a real job in a factory. It gets me so upset reading about it every couple days and everyone I know says the same thing. The average Windsor resident thinks they've lost their minds.

[401don]

The union greed is absolutely ridiculous. It gives Windsor a bad name. Caesar's should pull out and the OLG should tear down the casino like the Windsor Racetrack. No one I know supports those retards. They're already paid a lot more than minimum wage and they were offered a $2.25 an hour wage increase plus a $1,600 sign on bonus for full timers and $1,200 for part-timers and they get huge tips on top of that.

I spoke to a black jack dealer at Greek Town a year ago and he told me he made $7 an hour plus tips. The tips made it double to triple. How is Caesar's supposed to compete with the comps offered by the Detroit 3? Caesar's has 2,300 employees on their payroll and they have to deal with this union BS?? It never turned a profit before it was run by Caesar's.

Tear the casino down and those union pricks can go collect welfare or get a real job in a factory. It gets me so upset reading about it every couple days and everyone I know says the same thing. The average Windsor resident thinks they've lost their minds.

There were no wage details in the News article but I assumed they making a lot more than minimum. The fact the Ont. Gov't built that 2nd tower, basically bankrupting the other downtown hotels, was ridiculous as well.

[davewindsor]

There were no wage details in the News article but I assumed they making a lot more than minimum. The fact the Ont. Gov't built that 2nd tower, basically bankrupting the other downtown hotels, was ridiculous as well.

$20-$30 an hour. And they want the same increase as minimum wage, so we're talking what, another 35% plus tips?

[Canadian Visitor]

$20-$30 an hour. And they want the same increase as minimum wage, so we're talking what, another 35% plus tips?

Where did you two get the idea this was about a larger raise, in the main?

After seeing this thread, I googled the story to see what I could pick up.

Based on the link below:

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...our-disruption

" Unifor national president Jerry Dias came to Windsor for a rally April 22 and said the dispute was about a lack of respect, disputes over scheduling, too many part-time workers who don’t get benefits and minimum wage workers in an industry that makes millions of dollars a year.

and

One worker on the picket line who didn’t want to be named Monday for fear of retaliation from management said he wishes the various employee groups, from security to hotel workers, had more time to consider the details of the agreement before voting Friday. He said workers acted on emotions and many people were angry about the fourth year added to the contract. He also wanted language to address scheduling and vacation time based on seniority.

With no inside knowledge on my part, it doesn't sound like wages are at the heart of this, it sounds like scheduling above all else. Staff who don't get fixed hours, never mind full-time hours, whose pay cheque bounces up and down week to week due to varied and unpredictable hours, as well as many folks working part-time who get a lower hourly wage than F/T staff w/no benefits.
AS someone who employs people, I would never treat my staff that way. Even seasonal get the same hours week in, week out, so they can plan their lives and rely on the same pay each week. IT rather concerns me that you both instantly go the idea that greed is at the heart of this dispute without ever verifying that to be the case. If you have additional insight feel free to offer it.

But based on what's public domain, it sounds like we have staff who don't like getting @##@% over; and left unable to count on their job to pay the bills.

Doesn't read as overly greedy at first blush.

[Meddle]

When I wasn't sure if my job would pay my bills, I either changed jobs or cut my bills. I didn't try to extort my employer.

But I still say, close all casinos and ban gambling in all forms, including government run lotteries.

[Zacha341]

Ah, shucks another day of NOT gambling. Cry me a river.

Our crapsino's have to be happy!!

[davewindsor]

Where did you two get the idea this was about a larger raise, in the main?

Since you are unfamiliar with union lingo, let's go through this again.

" Unifor national president Jerry Dias came to Windsor for a rally April 22 and said the dispute was about a lack of respect, disputes over scheduling, too many part-time workers who donÂ’t get benefits and minimum wage workers in an industry that makes millions of dollars a year.

Three main issues mentioned:
Lack of respect = Union talk for not enough money.
Scheduling is in a separate coma.
Newbies = part-time workers and temps [[minimum wage workers). Most companies in the service sector that are not union usually start people part-time and they eventually become full-timers depending on how they are evaluated by their supervisors. It's just normal business practice.

Respect and scheduling are two separate issues in seperate comas. Not the same thing. They want respect = they want a much larger paycheque. That's all it means.

Slot attendants and servers make around $20 an hour plus tips. It's in the earlier article. A wage increase plus an increased $1,600 sign on bonus is not enough money? That's just greed.

These aren't skilled jobs. What does the union expect? To put the casino out of business?? The casino stated repeatedly they don't have the money for higher wage increases than offered, which is why they stopped talking for large periods of time. Scheduling is workable. But, higher hourly increases? You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

With no inside knowledge on my part, it doesn't sound like wages are at the heart of this, it sounds like scheduling above all else.

Cry me a river. With 2,300 employees, it's not about scheduling because there isn't a lack of employees. If someone doesn't want a shift, they could easily pass it off to someone else. You can't expect to get the best, highest tip paying Saturday evening shifts every week if you refuse to take the slow, low tip paying shifts. It's a 24/7 casino. You have to take them both to show the supervisor you're reliable and then you get more shifts.

Comparatively speaking, they are all doing way better than the non-union competing Detroit 3 casinos, which makes it about greed. They would not make this kind of money in any other service job in Windsor. Do you think hotels and restaurants pay this kind of money, sign on bonuses and benefits that union casino workers get?

More importantly, how is the casino supposed to make money when their labour expenses are a lot higher than the Detroit 3 casinos? If there wasn't a greedy union there, I bet you most of the workers would be there full time.

If workers don't like it, quit and find work elsewhere instead of being whiney, bi-ches. Otherwise, tear it down. Windsor has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the province now, so don't give me that nonsense that they have no choice.

BTW--casino workers live off the misery of others, so don't expect me to feel sympathetic because someone didn't get their shift. Somebody who does that is not on the same level as, say, a restaurant server as Swiss Chalet. I don't know how someone can work there and sleep well at night. If it wasn't about greed, they wouldn't continue working there. They should just tear the place down instead of giving them huge increases that come from the misery of others.

[Shai_Hulud]

BTW--casino workers live off the misery of others, so don't expect me to feel sympathetic because someone didn't get their shift. Somebody who does that is not on the same level as, say, a restaurant server as Swiss Chalet. I don't know how someone can work there and sleep well at night. If it wasn't about greed, they wouldn't continue working there. They should just tear the place down instead of giving them huge increases that come from the misery of others.

So the floor workers at the casino are terrible people for making a living, but we have no such animus for Caesars Entertainment or the Provincial government which are feeding at the same trough?

[Wesley Mouch]

Since you are unfamiliar with union lingo, let's go through this again.

Three main issues mentioned:
Lack of respect = Union talk for not enough money.
Scheduling is in a separate coma.
Newbies = part-time workers and temps [[minimum wage workers). Most companies in the service sector that are not union usually start people part-time and they eventually become full-timers depending on how they are evaluated by their supervisors. It's just normal business practice.

Ha! Thanks for that.

...snip...
These aren't skilled jobs. What does the union expect? To put the casino out of business?? The casino stated repeatedly they don't have the money for higher wage increases than offered, which is why they stopped talking for large periods of time. Scheduling is workable. But, higher hourly increases? You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

The casino little doubt has the money. But they also has an obligation to their owners [[and government) to deliver a return to them in exchange for their investment.

Wages disputes have to be solved somehow. One option is to eliminate unions and go full company-discretion. I like this, as it immediately holds the company responsible for paying too little or too much. But we've decided to settle wage disputes with mandatory collective bargaining. Strikes are the tool that is used when there's a disagreement that can't be settled at the table. Let the workers and company sit it out until somebody cries uncle. This just isn't really that important. If a hospital closes, somebody may die. If a casino closes, somebody just loses an opportunity to become poor. Society can continue just fine until somebody gives in.

[davewindsor]

So the floor workers at the casino are terrible people for making a living, but we have no such animus for Caesars Entertainment or the Provincial government which are feeding at the same trough?

Yes, they are terrible people for making a living off the misery of others and then wanting to exploit it even more with their outrageous demands. They have a choice to work there or somewhere else--there's tonnes of jobs out there in today's market. Just because the government makes something legal doesn't make it right.

[Bham1982]

Yes, they are terrible people for making a living off the misery of others and then wanting to exploit it even more with their outrageous demands. They have a choice to work there or somewhere else--there's tonnes of jobs out there in today's market. Just because the government makes something legal doesn't make it right.

They have a right to strike and are doing so. Totally irrelevant whether you think their employment is fundamentally immoral [[weird, though).

[davewindsor]

Ha! Thanks for that.

The casino little doubt has the money. But they also has an obligation to their owners [[and government) to deliver a return to them in exchange for their investment.

Wages disputes have to be solved somehow. One option is to eliminate unions and go full company-discretion. I like this, as it immediately holds the company responsible for paying too little or too much. But we've decided to settle wage disputes with mandatory collective bargaining. Strikes are the tool that is used when there's a disagreement that can't be settled at the table. Let the workers and company sit it out until somebody cries uncle. This just isn't really that important. If a hospital closes, somebody may die. If a casino closes, somebody just loses an opportunity to become poor. Society can continue just fine until somebody gives in.

X2

Better if the whole thing shut down permanently as it's not an essential public good. It's not like there's a lack of jobs in this city these days anyway.

[davewindsor]

They have a right to strike and are doing so. Totally irrelevant whether you think their employment is fundamentally immoral [[weird, though).

You must work in a casino. Do you sleep well at night?

[Bham1982]

You must work in a casino. Do you sleep well at night?

If I did work at a casino, yes, I would sleep very well at night. Not many casinos go out of business.

Not sure why you keep harping on "moral" objections to legal, heavily regulated business, unless you think all forms of leisure/entertainment are fundamentally immoral, and believe that employees of bars, restaurants, movie theaters, sporting venues, etc. have no right to ask for better wages or benefits.

[Richard]

Interesting the mindset of Because the company makes millions it should base the pay on that,if they have a loseing year can they also deduct from the salaries to offset the loss?

There was a casino that the currant president owned and sold,after the sale the union stepped in and demand more compensation,they ended up bankrupting it and 1800 lost their jobs.

[davewindsor]

If I did work at a casino, yes, I would sleep very well at night. Not many casinos go out of business.

Not sure why you keep harping on "moral" objections to legal, heavily regulated business, unless you think all forms of leisure/entertainment are fundamentally immoral, and believe that employees of bars, restaurants, movie theaters, sporting venues, etc. have no right to ask for better wages or benefits.

You are not making any sense. You are comparing apples to oranges. What do movie theaters have to do with casino gambling? My moral objection is to gambling, the peope who profit from it, and it's consequences, not free enterprise. I also have a moral objection to stealing. Are you going to suggest that's morally right too?

[Shai_Hulud]

Yes, they are terrible people for making a living off the misery of others and then wanting to exploit it even more with their outrageous demands. They have a choice to work there or somewhere else--there's tonnes of jobs out there in today's market. Just because the government makes something legal doesn't make it right.

If there's a dispute over wages that means at the very least Caesars and the gaming commission aren't willing to accept less. Likewise, the province could find other revenue and Caesars other business opportunities.

So no one involved is a paragon of generosity or virtue, but it's only the working stiffs you have a problem with.

Now is this a moral objection or simply an attack on big, bad unions?

[Bham1982]

You are not making any sense. You are comparing apples to oranges. What do movie theaters have to do with casino gambling?

They're both highly lucrative sources of govt. regulated leisure entertainment. How are they morally distinct?

My moral objection is to gambling, the peope who profit from it, and it's consequences, not free enterprise. I also have a moral objection to stealing. Are you going to suggest that's morally right too?

Stealing is obviously illegal, and has nothing to do with anything.

[davewindsor]

They're both highly lucrative sources of govt. regulated leisure entertainment. How are they morally distinct?

It's morally objectionable because people who work in a casino profit off the misery of others.

What misery do movie theatres create??

That's the difference. The profiting from the "misery of others" factor is what makes them morally distinct. What are you not getting?

Stealing is obviously illegal, and has nothing to do with anything.

A thief profits by creating misery for other people. That's what it has to do with anything. If somebody steals your wallet, does that not cause you some misery? Think about it.

[davewindsor]

If there's a dispute over wages that means at the very least Caesars and the gaming commission aren't willing to accept less. Likewise, the province could find other revenue and Caesars other business opportunities.

So no one involved is a paragon of generosity or virtue, but it's only the working stiffs you have a problem with.

Now is this a moral objection or simply an attack on big, bad unions?

I take issue with people who profit off the misery of others. Casino workers are not there for survival. It's not the great depression. Casino workers can find jobs elsewhere now as there's plenty of jobs available in today's market with the unemployment rate the lowest in decades, so there's no reason for them to be there except greed.

Casino workers profit off the misery of others. Now they want to profit off this misery even more?? At least the profits from the gaming commission goes towards paying for health care and mental health workers to help people whose lives have been ruined by casinos, while the profits from greedy casino workers goes straight to their pockets.

[Bham1982]

It's morally objectionable because people who work in a casino profit off the misery of others.

That's no different from any other leisure activity. Plenty of people go bankrupt with shopping addictions, drinking or overeating problems, video game crazes, whatever. You wanna shut down department stores because lives have been destroyed due to shopping addictions?

What misery do movie theatres create??

Hollywood produces the same alleged "misery" created by casino gambling, restaurants/bars, sporting events or any other elective leisure activity. There's no difference, morally or otherwise.

[davewindsor]

That's no different from any other leisure activity. Plenty of people go bankrupt with shopping addictions, drinking or overeating problems, video game crazes, whatever. You wanna shut down department stores because lives have been destroyed due to shopping addictions?

You don't even know what you are talking about. If you buy something at a department store on impulse, you can take it back and get a full refund in 30 days. If you blow all your savings at the tables or a slot machine, the casino is not gonna give you a refund.

Hollywood produces the same alleged "misery" created by casino gambling, restaurants/bars, sporting events or any other elective leisure activity. There's no difference, morally or otherwise.

You're so full of sh-t. Show me the study that shows movie theatres create the same misery as casino gambling.

[Richard]

^ you ever been to see a chick flick,that can be boat loads of misery.

People at casinos that win do not seem miserable.

Anyrate,June 1st is a scheduled walkout deadline in Las Vegas with up to 50,000 employees.I wonder who is going through be booking rooms at that time.

[Canadian Visitor]

^ you ever been to see a chick flick,that can be boat loads of misery.

People at casinos that win do not seem miserable.

Anyrate,June 1st is a scheduled walkout deadline in Las Vegas with up to 50,000 employees.I wonder who is going through be booking rooms at that time.

Just to prove I'm a good sport.

Richard made the above post and I endorse it. LOL