Van Strikes Pedestrians - Many Killed - Toronto, Canada

[Zacha341]

Not looking like an accident.....

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...o-van-incident

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...-van-1.4631564

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ees-scene.html

[Richard]

Ban killer vans,and leave Shania Twain alone.

NYT originally listed it as a van jumped the curb without mentioning how the guy jumped out and pointed a gun at the police,gotta stay PC correct.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Uh, yeah -- which is why you have scope out multiple sources and read the comment sections sometimes.

[Richard]

lol I do not trust any of them anymore.

Wikipedia was just busted for saying that a position elect served in the gulf war when he served in the Korean War,but people argued that because it was on Wikipedia it was true.

[Canadian Visitor]

Incident was purposeful; reason TBD

Suspect name: Alek Minassian

More info w/time, no premature conclusions drawn.

***

Exceedingly proud of the Toronto police officer who took the suspect into custody, alive, despite the suspect saying he had a gun.

[Richard]

Incident was purposeful; reason TBD

Suspect name: Alek Minassian

More info w/time, no premature conclusions drawn.

***

Exceedingly proud of the Toronto police officer who took the suspect into custody, alive, despite the suspect saying he had a gun.

Agreed,on video he was trying to get the policeman to shoot him in the head,I gotta admit it would have been tempting.

[Canadian Visitor]

CBC report linked below.

Its a bit early to be drawing any definitive conclusions, but to use common parlance it appears this jackass was angry because he couldn't get any.

Holy @#$#

10 people dead because the guy couldn't get a girl to unzip it.

I just don't know what to say.

I rather hope this doesn't turn out to be true; we can't have guys w/no moves thinking this is the answer......

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435

[aj3647]

CBC report linked below.

Its a bit early to be drawing any definitive conclusions, but to use common parlance it appears this jackass was angry because he couldn't get any.

Holy @#$#

10 people dead because the guy couldn't get a girl to unzip it.

I just don't know what to say.

I rather hope this doesn't turn out to be true; we can't have guys w/no moves thinking this is the answer......

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435

It seems he idolized mass killer Elliott Rodger and researched the 2014 Isla Vista killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

He was also a self-described "Incel" [[involuntary celibate) who was full of rage because women would not have sex with him.

Reports from people who knew him in high school and college definitely makes it sound like he was on the autism spectrum too.

But just like with Elliott Rodger, toxic masculinity and misogyny strikes again. Too many men out there under the impression that they are "owed" sex or that women are objects to have sex with instead of people who are entitled to not have to put up with unwanted advances.

[Canadian Visitor]

Additional facts:

Suspect has been charged with 10 counts first degree murder and 13 counts attempted murder.

Suspect appeared in court this morning, does not yet have his own lawyer, he was represented by duty counsel.

Bail hearing [[the outcome of which is a forgone conclusion) deferred to May 10, his next appearance.

People who knew him, have suggested that he was in fact on autistic spectrum.

Apparently had Aspergers.

But was sufficiently high-functioning to have attended or be attending a community college.

Previously wrote a downloadable app for finding parking in Toronto.

[Canadian Visitor]

Link to story on the exceptional, professional officer who did the takedown.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...eful-1.4632661

[Jimaz]

... Apparently had Aspergers....

In memory of, and respect for, Gannon, he would have interjected here that although some violent people may have Aspergers Syndrome, not all people with Aspergers Syndrome are violent.

But I think we all know that.

[Canadian Visitor]

In memory of, and respect for, Gannon, he would have interjected here that although some violent people may have Aspergers Syndrome, not all people with Aspergers Syndrome are violent.

But I think we all know that.

No question.

Well put.

[Jimaz]

Hartmann has some more background on these "incels":
Angry White Virgins Known As "Incels" Are Plotting Against America?.

It sounds like they're trying to set up a justification for rape — at least in their own minds.

[aj3647]

Hartmann has some more background on these "incels":
Angry White Virgins Known As "Incels" Are Plotting Against America?.

It sounds like they're trying to set up a justification for rape — at least in their own minds.

It's the typical terrorism MO: angry young men who feel disconnected/alienated from society and become increasingly radicalized on the Internet. Only in this case, instead of it being radical Islam or some extremist political ideology, it's basically just extreme misogyny.

https://uproxx.com/news/what-is-ince...lture-toronto/

Reddit shut down the largest "Incel" subreddit [[40,000 followers) because the discussion became increasingly violent, with people justifying rape and some even sharing advice on how to rape women and get away with it.

It's worth noting that according to the authorities, the victims of the van attack were "predominantly female."

[Canadian Visitor]

It's the typical terrorism MO: angry young men who feel disconnected/alienated from society and become increasingly radicalized on the Internet.

I think this is an extremely important statement.

Its one that's often overlooked in a certain sense.
When examining any given terroristic or mass public violent incident there is a tendency to discuss the particulars of someone's anger. Expelled from school, parents died young, abusive parents, awful breakup, lost child custody etc. etc.

Its important to recognize the commonality.

In most cases, before these people became criminals, terrorists committers of grotesque public acts, they were people. People having difficulty coping w/what life throws at you.

In some cases, difficulty w/what most of us have to bare, in others, difficulty w/circumstances anyone would find challenging.

That is no excuse for violence or criminality. It is, however, a cause.

That people grow frustrated, desperate and angry in many circumstances is understandable.

Most of us, are either capable of self-help, or have friends or family, or access to mental health supports or some self-medicate w/alcohol or drugs without causing greater social harm.

But some people have no one to turn to, or don't realize they have a place or person to turn to.

There is no advocacy here for 'hug a thug'; but there is for 'hug BEFORE someone becomes a thug'.

We, as a society are not capable of solving every personal problem, or making everyone happy.

But we are capable of choosing to befriend those might be socially awkward. We are capable of making mental health supports more broadly available, without money as a barrier to access, and ensuring people know that that support is out there.

We are capable of showing empathy and even putting in place programs that address certain social needs the majority may not share.

Taking this example, this young man apparently had 'tics' resulting from his aspergers. Being on the autism spectrum he may have had difficulty reading social cues [[dont' know this yet, have to wait for the facts, but its a common problem).

Those types of issues could certainly inhibit making friends or finding lovers.

One can empathize [[without excusing his conduct in any way) and wonder whether he might benefited from a class of some kind or therapy focusing on how to make friends, or how he might best find his match.

Were that not possible, then how he might cope w/the attendant loneliness or frustration.

***

More broadly though, its no different that our now wide recognition of the need to tackle school bullying or provide academic support to struggling students.

Its in everyone's best interest to reach the disaffected or those who may become such before things spiral out of control.

Its too easy to merely demonize once that person has become someone hateable. There was, in all likelihood a time when they were not, they were just someone's kid, a student, a human being, and the need to reach them was then.

The added reminder then, associated w/'radicalization' is that the if we as a society don't reach out to those folks, others will.

They will in one way or another take advantage of that anger or merely foment it.

They will exemplify what we would all call the wrong solutions.

We can't allow that void to exist, that vacuum that extremists fill.

[Richard]

You will beat yourself to death trying to figure out how the human mind operates.

For instance,an acquaintance who's son was recently arrested for randomly shooting people at night.He allegedly killed 4 before being caught.

His parents were known successfull business owners in the community.
He was raised with respect.
He was a college graduate.
Never really bullied in school and when you talked to him you he would be respectful,did not get in trouble.

But yet .....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/howell-...serial-killer/

[Richard]

So what are the odds that he will actually see a prison,the case was already made here that he was a poor misguided soul that needs to be in a safe place so he can be studied in order to prevent something that nobody has been able to prevent in the last 1000 years.

[Canadian Visitor]

We will see,right? Has this thread already not laid out a temporary insanity defense and compassion shown.

Yes or no.

For clarity's sake.

Canada doesn't have 'temporary insanity'.

There is a plea/finding of 'not criminally responsible due to mental disease or defect'.

As there is no evidence at this time of delusion, or of extreme intoxication, its exceedingly unlikely this defense would be open to him.

His actions during his take down also imply guilt, making it even less likely since that would seem to establish mens rea [[guilty mind) and the action or [[actus reus) is clear enough.

Further, in this circumstance, any incarceration would almost certainly be in our maximum security prison system, just in a mental health unit, IF that were the finding.

But again, I see that as rather unlikely.

[admin]

Okay folks, a bunch of posts in this thread went off the rails with personal insults and have been deleted.

You all have been around long enough to know that name-calling and personal attacks are the boxing equivalent of punches behind the head and below the belt. Not allowed. It also makes a lot of unpleasant work for us.

Now kindly touch gloves and please go back to civil discourse where the best-reasoned ideas win.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Amen to that!

[Maof]

Whew......

[coracle]

Okay folks, a bunch of posts in this thread went off the rails with personal insults and have been deleted.

You all have been around long enough to know that name-calling and personal attacks are the boxing equivalent of punches behind the head and below the belt. Not allowed. It also makes a lot of unpleasant work for us.

Now kindly touch gloves and please go back to civil discourse where the best-reasoned ideas win.

That's really put a "damper" on my weekend! I was enjoying it.

[coracle]

Let's hope "this young man" with "tics", who's life was spared after killing 10 people and maiming 15, can provide insight into the questions raised in Post #15 that will ensure it can never happen again.

[Richard]

I guess that would be another drawback from smoking,one cannot hold their breath that long.

[Canadian Visitor]

The story is, and remains tragic; still, its nice to dwell for a moment on the positive way the community responded, both in real time, and in the days since.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...n-rampage.html