Lack Of Starter Homes In Michigan

[emu steve]

Very nice article which describes a real problem in S.E. MI, MI, and the nation.

Interesting data on number of new building permits issued for 2000 and 2017.

I think most everyone feels that lack of affordable housing is one, if not the most important, factor in diminished standard of living, poverty, homelessness, etc.

I've sometimes addressed it from a different angle: Do empty nesters need a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...gan/485313002/

[Maof]

Very nice article which describes a real problem in S.E. MI, MI, and the nation.

Interesting data on number of new building permits issued for 2000 and 2017.

I think most everyone feels that lack of affordable housing is one, if not the most important, factor in diminished standard of living, poverty, homelessness, etc.

I've sometimes addressed it from a different angle: Do empty nesters need a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...gan/485313002/

We were just talking about this last week. Driving to visit relatives out in Waterford, an area where a school once stood, they were building ranch-style homes, maybe 1200-1800 sq. ft. Told my husband, with so many baby boomers, it would be nice to see more of these type homes being built.

I'm always looking online for ranch homes for sale and they're scooped up in no time. We all know it's more profitable for builders to build up rather than out and not everyone wants to downsize to a condo, me included. Too many rules, too close to neighbors and HOA fees. Not for me.

[Bham1982]

Silly article title. There are tons of starter homes available. There aren't many new construction starter homes, obviously, as it should be.

There's something seriously wrong with a housing market if land is so dirt-cheap that new construction single family starter homes pencil out.

Also, the concept of starter home is kinda outdated. People are marrying later and buying much later. There isn't really a starter phase for most.

[emu steve]

I believe that the housing definitions have changed over decades [[generations).

When families were large, there was a need for big houses with many bedrooms and baths.

Now the definition between a 'new family' and 'established family' isn't much.

It could be husband and wife OR husband and wife and say one child.

The days where families started at two and then became three, four, five or more seem to be 'rear view mirror.'

I'd like to see more homes, say town homes, with say 3 bedrooms [[max) and 2 baths.

One could argue that a two bedroom, two bath town home would be enough for most couples, those with 0 or 1 children OR empty nesters.

[hybridy]

the inner ring burbs are chock full of starter homes [[renovated or not). are they desirable areas with top schools? not necessarily. And wtf is with this whole diatribe that first-time buyers need stainless steel appliance and granite countertops...its such BS. I have bought and sold 2 "starter homes" [[150-250k) then updated them myself. plowed the profits into a better home in a better community. also most everyone desires a move-in ready home and many people can see beyond paint and carpet.

[swingline]

The Free Press article didn't attempt to tackle larger issues which are the true cause of a "lack of starter homes." There are plenty of starter homes in SE Michigan. They just aren't located in "good" school districts. And I'm not suggesting that families should be looking at $5,000 Detroit houses with caved-in porches either. Even if you exclude Detroit, the inner ring suburbs contain tens of thousands of sub-$150k homes in intact neighborhoods. Many families will not consider these communities because their school districts are producing well-below average ACT scores. And of course, even in the 21st Century, there is, let's say, a diversity to these communities that also precludes many families from considering the starter homes located there. So apparently the only solution is further expansion into exurbia despite the zero population growth of the region.

[3WC]

There are some thoughtful comments in this thread.

Obviously, as in all things, the market decides. Where there is a need, developers will fill it.

There should be far more focus on manufactured home communities. There's a historic stigma involved - trailer parks, trailer trash - but if zoning laws were made more realistic in many areas very profitable, attractive, safe, desirable and economic developments would be built.

[emu steve]

I like the discussion but I assume only builders know for sure if they could they could make a financial go of selling town homes instead of detached single family homes.

I do really like town homes because they offer single family functionality yet has density and cheaper prices.

[Bham1982]

I do really like town homes because they offer single family functionality yet has density and cheaper prices.

And that's exactly why many suburbs don't like townhouses.

I don't really agree with the mindset, but suburban jurisdictions generally don't want density or cheaper prices.

They, ideally, want the most expensive housing they can get, with the lowest land impact. That's why they tend to have minimum lot and home size preferences.

[Jason]

And then there's the desirable areas where all of the original ranch starter homes are getting demolished for newer bigger houses...

The overwhelming majority of houses in metro Detroit are priced or sized to be good starter homes.

[Bham1982]

And then there's the desirable areas where all of the original ranch starter homes are getting demolished for newer bigger houses...

Yeah, but that's pretty rare in Metro Detroit. Most of the inner ring suburbs don't have an explosion of bigfoot homes. It's overwhelmingly a few areas near Woodward in Oakland.

Birmingham's older neighborhoods have largely been decimated and the older bungalows are the rarities at this point. Then there's Royal Oak and Berkley with some more recent, fast accelerating activity.

But that's about it for inner suburbs. You don't see an explosion of infill in, say, Livonia, or Warren.

[Bham1982]

Also, re. the new homes, there is a HUGE premium for new construction among higher income households, which drives the developer buying frenzy in older areas.

There are a few neighborhoods where small, awkwardly laid-out new construction homes with tiny yards, cheap materials, and detached garages now fetch nearly $1 million, which is insane in Michigan. Developers are making a killing, with 250k profits on each home sold.

[EGrant]

Oak Park is about to hit a tipping point, going from a sleepy suburb of ranches and bad schools, to the new hot area to buy a home, as RO and Ferndale have gotten way too expensive for the average first-time homebuyer.

[Johnnny5]

There should be far more focus on manufactured home communities. There's a historic stigma involved - trailer parks, trailer trash - but if zoning laws were made more realistic in many areas very profitable, attractive, safe, desirable and economic developments would be built.

I have to strongly disagree on this one. Buying a manufactured home on a rented lot combines the absolute worst aspects of renting and buying and offers none of the benefits. Saddled with debt on a depreciating asset [[Often with higher interest rates than a mortgage), lacking the ability to easily move, still at the mercy of rising lot rent and for most little to no equity even after years of making payments. Unless you can find a steal of a deal on a unit that is already in place and offers reasonable lot rent, buying a manufactured home is a horrible choice for housing.

[3WC]

Johnny5: you make several unwarranted assumptions. First, I didn't say anything about buying an expensive home and putting it on a rented lot, which I acknowledge has historically the most common arrangement and is still a desirable alternative for thousands of people.

I own an interest in a manufactured community where we developed the land into lots with all the utilities, landscaping etc. We then sold the lots and manage the development for a fee [[reasonable.) I sold my interest in a manufactured home dealer which sold homes to many of the buyers of our lots.

It was a first rate community, with a pool and recreational facilities for the owners. We have a HOA and we established severe restrictions on rentals.

We did not impose age restrictions with respect to ownership.

These kinds of developments are being built in several states where manufactured home communities constitute a fairly significant percentage of the housing stock, although still not in the same league as single and multi family housing.

Your objections above demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the business and/or a lack of respect for the thousands of people who prefer manufactured home living and recognize their "buying power. The homeowner may always move the home if the rent is escalated significantly and the owner failed to negotiate reasonable lease terms. Most developers of such communities seek economic stability over all else and anyway rarely do market conditions permit unbridled lot rent increases.

Institutional lenders to such developers impose significant covenants in their loan documents which generally insure financial stability, minimum living unit standards, landscaping and infrastructure standards etc.

There are communities in FL and AZ where the lots and double wides go for a million dollars or more.

You seem to think modern "mobile home parks" are still like the one in 8 Mile.

[Király]

Hahahahahahaha! My biggest laugh of the day. If anyone thinks there is a lack of starter homes and/or affordable housing in Michigan, have a look at what < 2000 sq ft houses are available in my city at an affordable price.

https://www.rew.ca/properties/search...r_built_to%5D=

[hybridy]

There are some thoughtful comments in this thread.

Obviously, as in all things, the market decides. Where there is a need, developers will fill it.

There should be far more focus on manufactured home communities. There's a historic stigma involved - trailer parks, trailer trash - but if zoning laws were made more realistic in many areas very profitable, attractive, safe, desirable and economic developments would be built.

There is and it’s at a fever pitch. They’re called ‘tiny homes’ now. We also have ‘micro units’ and ‘workforce housing’. Also ‘manufactured’ became ‘modular’ at some point.

[Gistok]

A couple of things.... interestingly enough there are quite a few manufactured homes on the north side of M-59 in Macomb Township and Chesterfield Township, which is kind of ironic... having them as neigbors to posh Partridge Creek.

As for builders... a good friend is doing some fixup on my house, and he has lamented the fact that he's been trying for years to grow his business, but to no avail. When the great recession hit metro Detroit so hard... we lost many tradesman, that will likely never return due to our cyclical economy, and the fact that that last recession hit the tradesmen especially hard. There's not enough skilled workers to keep up with demand.

[emu steve]

A couple of things.... interestingly enough there are quite a few manufactured homes on the north side of M-59 in Macomb Township and Chesterfield Township, which is kind of ironic... having them as neigbors to posh Partridge Creek.

As for builders... a good friend is doing some fixup on my house, and he has lamented the fact that he's been trying for years to grow his business, but to no avail. When the great recession hit metro Detroit so hard... we lost many tradesman, that will likely never return due to our cyclical economy, and the fact that that last recession hit the tradesmen especially hard. There's not enough skilled workers to keep up with demand.

That's a common theme [[not enough skilled workers).

One poster described it as a problem with LC world headquarters and the Hudson site.

This is from WaPo on rising costs for an 'infill' subway station construction in Northern Virginia:

The cost of labor is up as a result of a shortage of qualified subcontractors because of high demand for major projects in the region and nationwide, officials said.

“A lot of construction projects are competing for the same specialized subcontractors,” Fifer said. “The price of concrete has gone up, the price of steel has gone up. And so basically the projections made in 2015 are not exactly the same as the bids that have come back.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/04/06/potomac-yard-metro-station-is-over-budget-and-behind-schedule/?utm_term=.e65a0a47a858

[Bham1982]

Oak Park is about to hit a tipping point, going from a sleepy suburb of ranches and bad schools, to the new hot area to buy a home, as RO and Ferndale have gotten way too expensive for the average first-time homebuyer.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Oak Park has awful schools and higher than average crime. Also, it has no downtown, nor any charming older neighborhoods like RO or Ferndale.

Also, RO and especially Ferndale, are reasonably priced by "normal" U.S. standards. They're only considered "expensive" in the context of Metro Detroit, where housing practically has to be free or it's considered outrageously priced.

[Bham1982]

That's a common theme [[not enough skilled workers).

The U.S. has a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen, which is yet another reason why the current anti-immigrant idiocy led by a certain lying orange Russian puppet clown is so harmful to the economy.

[Richard]

The U.S. has a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen, which is yet another reason why the current anti-immigrant idiocy led by a certain lying orange Russian puppet clown is so harmful to the economy.

Nice try,that road was paved way before the currant president even thought of running for office,and it is consumers with your mindset that did the paving,now you reap what you sow.

Is the price of construction cheaper because of cheap illegal labor ? No,all you did was transfer the profit from the smaller companies to the large corporations and with the tradesmen that are left,they have learn to only deal with the ones that are willing to pay fairly,there is not a shortage of skilled tradesmen,they just figured what was the point of spending years to hone a skill and then have a consumer offer them $10 per hour.

It is no different then going to college for years then coming out and working for mc Donald's.

Let me know what you do for a living,I bet you I can can find your employer an illegal to replace you at 50% of your current wage,are you ready?

[Bham1982]

Nice try,that road was paved way before the currant president even thought of running for office,and it is consumers with your mindset that did the paving,now you reap what you sow.

Yes, I'm well aware we had a labor shortage before Trump, and too little immigration relative to our rivals for at least a decade, largely due to a right-wing Congress stonewalling immigration reform since Bush II, all to appease the nativist wing of the party.

Just because we were stupid for 10 years doesn't mean that going stupid x1000 under Trump is a remotely sane response.

[Richard]

Yes, I'm aware we had a labor shortage well before Trump, and too little immigration relative to our rivals for at least a decade, largely due to a right-wing Congress stonewalling immigration reform since Bush II. Thanks for the irrelevant anecdotes.

So what happened in the last eight years of hope and change?He could have implemented a trades training program and when the currant president tried setting it up it was a left winger that crashed it because he was offended.

Your whole post was irrelevant,instead of agreeing with the shortage you had to take a plug instead of looking at causes and solutions,so what exactly did you contribute other then pushing a silly agenda?

Have you asked your politions if they are taking advantage of the trades training programs that are currently being funded by the Feds and pushing for the Detroit schools system to implement them?

I am going to go out on a limb and say no.

[oladub]

The U.S. has a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen, which is yet another reason why the current anti-immigrant idiocy led by a certain lying orange Russian puppet clown is so harmful to the economy.

As many posters have already pointed out, there is not a general shortage of affordable starter homes in Michigan. There are instead spot shortages based on zoning restrictions and preferences for 'safe' neighborhoods. The economy is working as it should. A temporary shortage of labor incentivizes more job training, boosts wages because of supply and demand, and helps prevent the economy from overheating. Some working Americans are finally gaining a larger share of the economic pie. What's wrong with that? Democrats used to support higher wages. Pouring cheaper foreign workers into the labor market would dampen or depress wages of American workers and create unemployment problems when the economy cools or goes into recession. Whose side are you on?

Do you mean the "Orange Russian puppet clown" under whom unemployment is low? I criticize the "Orange Russian puppet clown" for threatening Russia and Syria but not for low unemployment.