Ontario Turns Hard Left??

[Canadian Visitor]

What complete nonsense! Who the hell are you? Where's your proof? I don't know your real name or your phone number. Why should anyone accept a financial assessment from an anonymous forumer?? For all I know, you could be a high school dropout who got a D in math. How do I evaluate your credibility? At least with Doug Ford, I know it's a real person and I can contact his office with questions I have about his platform. You always say such nonsense claiming to be someone you are not. Get a life.

The fact you type w/such hatred and you name-call and insult someone you've never met, you said nothing bad about you in the preceding post speaks volumes about who you are as a person.

Most of us, including yourself are essentially anonymous on this forum. It allows in many cases for more frank conversation and sometimes a leak or two of information to which the public might not otherwise be privy.

I feel no need to justify my academic or professional credentials to you.

Though there are people on this forum who know what I do for a living, and where I graduated, you will not be one of them.

Prove what you say, phony, or STFU.

Again w/the language. It doesn't make you look any smarter to be an @##$@ all the time. Try speaking like an adult and not a 12-year old.

Just so we're clear on the rules of debate, you have made many affirmative claims about Doug Ford and others, YOU are obligated to prove those. I am not here full-time to debunk everything you say.

But if you would like proof of somethings......how's this:

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...cil_votes.html

Doug Ford missed 53% of Council votes! Sparkling! Try showing up that often at your job. You know exactly what will happen.

Here's another link on Doug's so-called effiencies at City Hall.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star...-nonsense.html

That will have to do for now.

[Wesley Mouch]

I feel no need to justify my academic or professional credentials to you.

Your posts speak well of you. Non need for justification. Carry on.

Doug Ford missed 53% of Council votes! Sparkling! Try showing up that often at your job. You know exactly what will happen.

Factlets like that aren't very helpful. Makes me want to know what the average attendance percentage is. Did he make important votes? Does the Toronto council hold lots of pointless meetings? Is the agenda's important clear in advance. Are the meetings ever political theatre that is avoided? You get the idea.

All we have is a factlet from the factlet production factory owned and operated in this case with someone who thought this factlet tells a story they like.

[Canadian Visitor]

Factlets like that aren't very helpful. Makes me want to know what the average attendance percentage is. Did he make important votes? Does the Toronto council hold lots of pointless meetings? Is the agenda's important clear in advance. Are the meetings ever political theatre that is .

Toronto Council meets around 11-12 times per year with most meetings lasting 2 full days, sometimes 3.

The Agendas are very large as they are the sum of multiple committees work, as well as the four community councils.

They are structured, generally, so that any item not held for questions or discussion passes by default. [[a confirming by-law is passed at the end of the meeting) .

Usually only a few items garner serious debate, but with 44 councillors and a mayor the discussions can be interminable at times.

There is usually a fair bit of substance, but to be sure the meetings inevitably feature some grandstanding by people on w/e side of an issue as they ask questions of staff simply to make a point, when they already know the answer.

For a sample of a Toronto City Council Agenda, see this link:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decision...ting-2018.CC41

The most recent meeting, May 22-24 should come up.

***

In respect of Mr. Ford's attendance record, in terms of comparing it the norm.

From the article I linked:

The council average this term was 17 per cent votes missed over all four years; the median councillor, 23rd-place John Parker, missed 15 per cent.

This compares w/Mr. Ford at 53%

[davewindsor]

The fact you type w/such hatred and you name-call and insult someone you've never met, you said nothing bad about you in the preceding post speaks volumes about who you are as a person.

Most of us, including yourself are essentially anonymous on this forum. It allows in many cases for more frank conversation and sometimes a leak or two of information to which the public might not otherwise be privy.

I feel no need to justify my academic or professional credentials to you.

You told me what I said was nonsense twice without proving it in a credible way.

If you do not feel the need to justify your academic or professional credentials, you need to prove it another way like citing data, which you did not.

Again w/the language. It doesn't make you look any smarter to be an @##$@ all the time. Try speaking like an adult and not a 12-year old.

If you talk like an uneducated 12-year old by not citing facts, I will respond in kind because that's the only way to talk to a, how did you say it, "@##$@".

Just so we're clear on the rules of debate, you have made many affirmative claims about Doug Ford and others, YOU are obligated to prove those. I am not here full-time to debunk everything you say.

The statements were statements made by Doug Ford. Phone Doug Ford up and ask him to explain it. At least, he's a real person with an office you can call.

But if you would like proof of somethings......how's this:

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...cil_votes.html

Doug Ford missed 53% of Council votes! Sparkling! Try showing up that often at your job. You know exactly what will happen.

Since when is showing up to every single council meeting part of the job description? I don't know what those meeting he missed where or what value they had from being there or what the general attendance was for all the councilors or if there were other factors at play. I'm guessing he showed up to the meetings that were important to pass through the agenda his constituents voted him in office for.

Also, it's not a full-time job like an administrator who's there 9-5pm doing paperwork, etc. Think of a corporation with a board of directors. You really only need a board meeting once a year. The directors only need to show up once up a year. Often there's more meetings held than once a year, but there isn't a meeting every day from 9-5pm. They appoint a CEO and President to run the day to day operations. Think of a councilor like a director, not a full-time administrator. So, if getting he's getting the job people voted him for done, who cares about 100% attendance?

Here's another link on Doug's so-called effiencies at City Hall.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star...-nonsense.html

That will have to do for now.

The article doesn't prove the accounting you made in your earlier post. The article makes a lot of hypotheticals like suppose the meaning of words in the Doug Ford universe such as efficiency as just meaning termination while he was on council. Ok, so how many people were fired under Doug Ford and who were they and where they transferred somewhere else in the city? It doesn't answer that.

When the City of Windsor outsourced garbage, the city employees were not fired, but transferred to other departments like the Central Transfer Station, Parks and Rec., etc. CUPW Union agreements prevent the city from firing employees. I suspect the City of Toronto has the same policy. So quit making stuff up without proof that Doug Ford had a bunch of city employees fired under his watch because he repeatedly says he didn't.

Your article concludes: "The city spent more. People paid more in taxes and fees. “Savings”? Well, it’s a matter of vocabulary, I guess."

No, it's not a matter of vocabulary. Doug Ford states he and his brother found a billion in savings so they did not have to raise property taxes under their watch.

[detroitbob]

The Anglican Church of Canada is part of the Anglican Communion but each member of the Communion is independent of the other with their own governing bodies...i.e. in the United States the ECUSA [[Episcopal church) is governed by General Convention and elects a Presiding bishop or Primate for a term of [[I believe 10 years). The Convention consists of the House of Bishops and House of Deputies [[with members elected by each diocese). A similar set up occurs in Canada.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
In respect of Mr. Ford's attendance record, in terms of comparing it the norm.

...
From the article I linked:
The council average this term was 17 per cent votes missed over all four years; the median councillor, 23rd-place John Parker, missed 15 per cent.

This compares w/Mr. Ford at 53%

Still feels like a stat designed to shame.

Of course it seems, and maybe is, a bad thing to miss votes. But simple arguments like this are often misleading.

The irrelevant, green member of council may attend every meeting, driving average attendance up. The more seasoned politician with less to prove might be strategic in their efforts. They might have other things to do if the agenda doesn't hold any surprises -- or the votes are all clear wins or losses even if he doesn't attend.

Still seems like a designer stat from the closest of a professional mud-slinging consultant to me.

Consider Trump's hilarious 'two nights in Canada is too much' comment. Sometimes when you're playing in the big leagues you pick your battles. Gay Pride parade and Council Meetings? Nah, I got real work to do.

[Canadian Visitor]

Still feels like a stat designed to shame.

Of course it seems, and maybe is, a bad thing to miss votes. But simple arguments like this are often misleading.

The irrelevant, green member of council may attend every meeting, driving average attendance up. The more seasoned politician with less to prove might be strategic in their efforts. They might have other things to do if the agenda doesn't hold any surprises -- or the votes are all clear wins or losses even if he doesn't attend.

Still seems like a designer stat from the closest of a professional mud-slinging consultant to me.
.

I honestly can't fathom your position on this.

No matter the person's political stripe, I elected them to vote on my behalf.

If they don't show up for the vote they are still taking my money 100% of the time.

Not ok.

Grossly unprofessional.

No mudslinging involved.

[MicrosoftFan]

How does Elections Ontario count votes? They were able to call for a PC Government 15 minutes after poll closing. We hardly even have results 15 minutes after poll closing. What is their model and how can we emulate it?

[Canadian Visitor]

Most Ontario polling stations have automatic vote tabulators.

The way I voted today was to mark an 'x' on a paper ballot beside my preferred candidate.

I then put the ballot in a paper folder that covers the names and where the x was marked.

The elections official, in front of me, takes the folder and turns it upside down and then the machine sucks the ballot in and reads it.

Once the polls close, those results are transmitted in real time.

The paper ballots remain available to scrutinize the accuracy of the machines.

Not all polls report at the same speed, because of slight variations in closing times [[a poll that opened late would stay open late); and because some polls which have less people did not get the automatic machines and so still have to have physical ballots counted by hand.

Also, anyone in line at the time polls close gets to vote.