Warning or opportunity for Detroit?

[Stravo]

So many have used Detroit as the example of disaster. I see it entirely differently. Detroit is a precious opportunity for a new, people-based arcology that supplies all the needs & expressions of our gregarious species. We-the-peeps must grasp that opportunity before the window closes-- again.

Please, if you're here to pitch failed, old paradigms or just to criticize w/o any suggestions, go elsewhere. I'm looking for out of the box thinkers. Like old Henry himself.

[SammyS]

I think about that all the time. Either;

1. Detroit is the prototype for impending disaster for just about every large city globally, or

2. it is out of line and long overdue for realignment.

My bets are on 2.

Think NYC of 70/80’s, Southbeach of late 80’s or even Turin of late 90’s

[Zacha341]

Welcome to Detroityes Stravo!

[Johnnny5]

Detroit is both. Unfortunately, just like the Great Recession it's the masses that had to bear the brunt of the long downturn and the fortunate few reaping the benefits in its recovery.

[Stravo]

I wrote to the Ford family asking them to help. I also asked what they had in mind for Detroit. True to elitist form, they ignored me. It's going to take the peons to raise the same Detroit the big dogs razed.

[ASilvaman]

Is there a question being asked? I'm confused by this post.

[SammyS]

I wrote to the Ford family asking them to help. I also asked what they had in mind for Detroit. True to elitist form, they ignored me. It's going to take the peons to raise the same Detroit the big dogs razed.

Elitists, peons? I would not have answered you either if your sentiment remotely reflected anything close to your word selections. Additionally, Ford has no obligation to provide play by play progress reports.

[K-slice]

Detroit is both. Unfortunately, just like the Great Recession it's the masses that had to bear the brunt of the long downturn and the fortunate few reaping the benefits in its recovery.

Fortunate few? My company recently picked up multiple properties in the city that are undergoing extensive renovation. This has provided me a new position wherein I can live and work in the city. We are hiring for more people to work in the city full time with great benefits, not to mention all the contractors that are being put to work in these projects.

There is unlimited opportunity right now for those who want to work and make something for themselves. I feel that this gets too often overshadowed though by Gilbert's newest acquisition, or Ilitch bulldozing more historic buildings.

[SammyS]

Detroit is both. Unfortunately, just like the Great Recession it's the masses that had to bear the brunt of the long downturn and the fortunate few reaping the benefits in its recovery.

By long downturn you mean 70 years? There is no excuse for blaming any one group for events that occured over such a long period of time.

The “fortunate few” are actually many. I hope I’m one. Sure there are many more on this forum who stuck thier neck out and put skin in the game at the right time. Collectively, I would not doubt there are by multiples more money poured into Detroit than all the institution and city money combined. Works that way in the stock and bond markets.

PS. Have you ever thought that maybe every prior attempt at revitalizing Detroit was hindered by someone’s failing Social Justice agenda?

https://youtu.be/cnwxUhB9w_M

The problem is not the free market but instead when individuals vote for governments that steal from the productive class to pay for the non productive class. Socialism is and always has been a failure. If there’s a middle ground, then the market needs to find it, not have it forced upon it.

[SammyS]

Fortunate few? My company recently picked up multiple properties in the city that are undergoing extensive renovation. This has provided me a new position wherein I can live and work in the city. We are hiring for more people to work in the city full time with great benefits, not to mention all the contractors that are being put to work in these projects.

There is unlimited opportunity right now for those who want to work and make something for themselves. I feel that this gets too often overshadowed though by Gilbert's newest acquisition, or Ilitch bulldozing more historic buildings.

You beat me to it

[Johnnny5]

Fortunate few? My company recently picked up multiple properties in the city that are undergoing extensive renovation. This has provided me a new position wherein I can live and work in the city. We are hiring for more people to work in the city full time with great benefits, not to mention all the contractors that are being put to work in these projects.

There is unlimited opportunity right now for those who want to work and make something for themselves. I feel that this gets too often overshadowed though by Gilbert's newest acquisition, or Ilitch bulldozing more historic buildings.

You and the company you own/work for are among fortunate few. The million plus former residents some of which lost everything as the city basically crumbled around them is the warning.

That's why I stated Detroit is both.

[Johnnny5]

By long downturn you mean 70 years? There is no excuse for blaming any one group for events that occured over such a long period of time.

The “fortunate few” are actually many. I hope I’m one.

That's exactly what I mean and I didn't blame anyone. While it may seem like they are many, when you compare it to the number that lost [[And are still in the red) it's far closer to "few" than many.

[SammyS]

That's exactly what I mean and I didn't blame anyone. While it may seem like they are many, when you compare it to the number that lost [[And are still in the red) it's far closer to "few" than many.

Like everyone else, I lost 50% of my homes value in the suburbs only to see it back 6 years later. Detroit actually recovered quicker. For those left behind, you must ask:

1. Are they victims of targeted discrimination?
2. Are they prone to making bad financial decisions?
3. Are they kept perpetually poor by a welfare system that buys their vote?

The answer lies between 2 and 3 since discrimination has been outlawed for >40 years. If you don’t believe me, sue the bank. You’ll WIN!

Many studies have been conducted to address this issue. Here are the footnotes.

98% of individuals get out of poverty if they do the following:

1. Get a high school education
2. Get a job
3. Don’t have kids out of wedlock [[this is how welfare works against society)

[Johnnny5]

Like everyone else, I lost 50% of my homes value in the suburbs only to see it back 6 years later.

Detroit actually recovered quicker.

It most certainly did not. Again, you're confusing the gains of the few with those of the many. Yes, downtown, Corktown, Midtown and a few other areas are thriving and values have hit record highs. The rest of the city? Not so much.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/average-ho...me-in-17-years

[SammyS]

It most certainly did not. Again, you're confusing the gains of the few with those of the many. Yes, downtown, Corktown, Midtown and a few other areas are thriving and values have hit record highs. The rest of the city? Not so much.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/average-ho...me-in-17-years

More than just those prime areas and that was from 3 years ago. Since then, prices have gone up at least another 50%

https://www.freep.com/story/money/re...sing/29169949/

[Johnnny5]

My apologies for the old link. Even using current Zillow estimates you can see we're still far below the values from 2008 and before. In other words, for most unless one has purchased a home Detroit in the last 10 years, or has owned for a very long time. The price paid is still likely to be well above the current value.

https://www.zillow.com/detroit-mi/home-values/

[ndavies]

Zillow estimates are completely useless in Detroit. During the recession they way overvalued things. Now they dramatically trail the reality of Detroit. The thing that counts are actual sales records. The Freep data used actual sales records.

[Johnnny5]

Looking again at the link I originally posted it appears to be current numbers from February of 2018, not 3 years old. Either way, my apologies for taking this thread off the tracks.

[Jason]

By long downturn you mean 70 years? There is no excuse for blaming any one group for events that occured over such a long period of time.

The “fortunate few” are actually many. I hope I’m one. Sure there are many more on this forum who stuck thier neck out and put skin in the game at the right time. Collectively, I would not doubt there are by multiples more money poured into Detroit than all the institution and city money combined. Works that way in the stock and bond markets.

PS. Have you ever thought that maybe every prior attempt at revitalizing Detroit was hindered by someone’s failing Social Justice agenda?

https://youtu.be/cnwxUhB9w_M

The problem is not the free market but instead when individuals vote for governments that steal from the productive class to pay for the non productive class. Socialism is and always has been a failure. If there’s a middle ground, then the market needs to find it, not have it forced upon it.

Amazing, all you have to do to escape poverty is pay more for your food, housing, and medical care, and once you do that you'll have hundreds of thousands of dollars to invest in real estate.

[Jason]

By long downturn you mean 70 years? There is no excuse for blaming any one group for events that occured over such a long period of time.

The “fortunate few” are actually many. I hope I’m one. Sure there are many more on this forum who stuck thier neck out and put skin in the game at the right time. Collectively, I would not doubt there are by multiples more money poured into Detroit than all the institution and city money combined. Works that way in the stock and bond markets.

PS. Have you ever thought that maybe every prior attempt at revitalizing Detroit was hindered by someone’s failing Social Justice agenda?

https://youtu.be/cnwxUhB9w_M

The problem is not the free market but instead when individuals vote for governments that steal from the productive class to pay for the non productive class. Socialism is and always has been a failure. If there’s a middle ground, then the market needs to find it, not have it forced upon it.

Amazing, all you have to do to escape poverty is pay more for your food, housing, and medical care, and once you do that you'll have hundreds of thousands of dollars to invest in real estate.


As far as the original question goes, Detroit's problems are very real and are at a massive scale. It's hard for me to understand how someone could view these problems as building blocks of a utopian society while still taking the problems seriously. As it is, most of Detroit is essentially a dystopia. Detroit also has strengths and potential, and I'm personally optimistic about the future, but I think it's an unavoidable fact that different people will benefit to different degrees depending on their individual circumstances.

[Lombaowski]

More than just those prime areas and that was from 3 years ago. Since then, prices have gone up at least another 50%

https://www.freep.com/story/money/re...sing/29169949/

I'm from 48228. I'm really glad you think the housing market is booming there because median prices have quadrupled from their lows of $7k, to $30k now. That's not even what a good shed costs where I live now.

OOOOOOOOOOOF

[SammyS]

I'm from 48228. I'm really glad you think the housing market is booming there because median prices have quadrupled from their lows of $7k, to $30k now. That's not even what a good shed costs where I live now.

OOOOOOOOOOOF

So. A single car garage in NYC goes for $150k. A profit is a profit and those reaping the reward should be encouraged, not embarrassed.

[Jason]

Even still, most of the people who have lived in Detroit for decades, and own their homes, because homeownership is supposed to help you build wealth, have lost money on their investments.

Most of the rental homes in the city can't charge high enough rents in order to pay for basic maintenance of the houses. They're riding out their rental properties with the absolute bare minimum and hoping that by the time the property completely falls apart they'll have made some money off it.

Real estate investments in Detroit are only benefiting people who: have access to capital, have knowledge of the real estate market, have the right skills and connections to wade through city bureaucracy, were buying in the last 10-15 years [[not before), and have enough money that if their risky investments don't pan out they can still live. And this is on top of their day jobs, which is where they're getting the money to invest in the first place, raising their families, and doing everything else that normal people do. Even your typical middle class suburbanite isn't in the position to be a successful real estate investor.

So it's good that it's happening, and it's good for the city overall, and it's good for almost everyone, even if indirectly. But it's really a stretch to say that your average person in either Detroit or metro Detroit can get into the real estate game.

[stasu1213]

Unlike other major cities Detroit has so much empty land, sparsely used avenues and boulevards, and empty retail strips to play with. The Dequindre Cut is one of the creative things that were done in the city by making a former railroad passage into a bike/walking greenway. Tony Goldman, the developer of Soho and South Beach had said during his visit to Detroit that Detroit should not try to become a metropolis such as Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago. Detroit should stay at it's own style as a town but more functional with a mixture of the Arts, retail and work spaces[[something in that manner). I think that his vision of downtown was a little different than Gilbert's vision of what downtown and the rest of Detroit should be like. Not that I'm crapping on Gilbert. I think that Detroit is in a better position than it was 60 years ago when it was hemorging but everyone just though it was a paper cut

[Lombaowski]

So. A single car garage in NYC goes for $150k. A profit is a profit and those reaping the reward should be encouraged, not embarrassed.

I hope you're not a financial planner.