640 Temple Renovation Plans Change Per Crains

[emu steve]

Sounds like a combination hotel/apartment building. Construction to be begin this spring/summer. $65M.

Building has good bones.

P.S. Couldn't find the original thread for 640 Temple.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...elopment-plans

[bust]

Gretchen Valade: bless her soul.

See also:

Thread: $7.5-million Donation to Launch jazz hub at Wayne State
https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?20959-7-5-million-Donation-to-Launch-jazz-hub-at-Wayne-State

Upbeats With John Osler: Spotlight on Detroit Jazz
http://dirtydogjazz.com/Blog/index.p...-detroit-jazz/

[Hypestyles]

well, good luck. hopefully they'll start allowing applications soon.

[emu steve]

Here is the full Crain's article which was posted on Twitter.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article..._medium=social

Will 2018 be the year that nice things happen on Temple?

As one can see from Google maps, the building takes up the corner of a decent sized block. What will happen with the rest? [[doubt all of it is needed for parking for 640 Temple).

What will happen with the adjacent block or blocks? There are empty blocks on either side of Temple between 3rd and 4th.

[mikeg19]

With the influx of people and the addition of several hotels in the area, why would the developer decide to use valuable floor space for yet another hotel? Wouldn't it be more profitable to use this entire building for apartments?

[emu steve]

With the influx of people and the addition of several hotels in the area, why would the developer decide to use valuable floor space for yet another hotel? Wouldn't it be more profitable to use this entire building for apartments?

Fair question.

Apparently the developer probably feels one of two things:

1). Hotel rooms are more profitable than apartments.

OR

2). There will be increase demand for hotel rooms in the arena area. The only proposed hotel in the ARENA area is, of course, Henry/Woodward. My guess is that the developer feels there is more demand in the area.

I assume the hotel rooms would be for sports and entertainment travelers and some associated with the WSU school of business. The location is close to both but 'off the beaten path' to downtown [[a few block walk to QLine).

[stingbeelee]

My mother worked at 640 Temple when it was either County Social Services or Michigan Social Services. She used to talk about "640 Temple" all the time. I can remember dropping her off to work there.

[jackie5275]

As someone who worked there for 10 yrs, I wish them well in completing this development. However, I have some concerns about the use of the sub-basement. That area will take a whole lot of work to transform it into a night club/lounge area, especially based on how it was when I saw last in November of last year.

[jackie5275]

As one can see from Google maps, the building takes up the corner of a decent sized block. What will happen with the rest? [[doubt all of it is needed for parking for 640 Temple).

Part of the parking you see on the map belongs to Olympia Entertainment. It has been used primarily when shows were at Masonic Temple. The rest of the parking lot will be needed & used for apt residents, hotel guests, and staff. It's not as big as it looks on the map.

[emu steve]

The parking lot looks to need a lot of work.

[Zads07]

The parking lot looks to need a lot of work.

How about no. How about replace the parking lots with at the very least, a parking structure with ground floor retail.

[emu steve]

How about no. How about replace the parking lots with at the very least, a parking structure with ground floor retail.

Never happen. This kind of renovation far off the beaten path. No way they spend that kind of money at this location.

[bust]

Never happen. This kind of renovation far off the beaten path. No way they spend that kind of money at this location.

But Steve, this is smack dab in "Cass Park Village". According to the Ilitches they're planning a neighborhood like this:

"Part entrepreneurial, part artistic, this neighborhood has been conceived with individuality and expression in mind. Cass Park Village will build on the creative energy of nearby Wayne State University, Cass Technical High School and the 90-year-old Masonic Temple to become a hotbed for artists who will launch new ideas. This neighborhood will appeal to those who want to live and work in a tight-knit community within the boundaries of an urban city.

Cass Park Village will be home to independent shops, local markets and galleries, and residents will sense a relaxed atmosphere with a free-spirited attitude that is not pretentious or flashy. Like a small town, this close-knit community will encourage people to get to know each other. The daytime atmosphere will be friendly as shop owners and cafe start-ups welcome visitors, offering conversations about neighborhood happenings and current events in comfortable and casual surroundings. Nighttime will be equally laid-back as neighbors meet in the backyard for informal get-togethers or at the park for pickup softball. For those seeking something a bit livelier, local bars and galleries will come alive, offering events from poetry slams to local garage bands to full-out launch parties."

Sounds wonderful. But where do they expect all that will happen, in parking lots?

Or do you admit Olympia went all out on a BS PR campaign of empty promises designed to dazzle and distract the public while they solicited and received over $320,000,000 in tax money for the construction of their arena?

I'm surprised they haven't taken this down yet:

District Detroit: Cass Park Village
http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...s-park-village

[emu steve]

All I know what you guys are describing, parking garages with retail sounds more downtownish to me, not Cass Park Village.

And this area should not be compared with say City Modern which is upscale, glitzy, expensive, etc.

I'm actually familiar with this area from my younger year [[after I finished as an undergrad at WSU*), I lived/worked near downtown for a year, traveled down Cass Ave., etc. I never thought this area had any kind of future.

I do remember the Cass Corridor of decades ago. The fact that we are talking 640 Temple, Hotel Americana, Alhambra, etc. is amazing. Not to mention when they built the new Cass Tech H.S.

Never thought any of it would happen in my lifetime...

* BTW, when I was at WSU my last year, I lived in an old apt. building which was torn down and now part of a block of WSU buildings. It was a sh*thole building. No A/C, murphy bed, etc. When I got to EMU had a nice furnished studio with A/C, etc. Kind of like 'heaven'... I liked EMU.

For WSU's sake I'm glad they now have a campus which is greatly improved than when I was there and and actually quite livable for students living on campus.

[Zads07]

All I know what you guys are describing, parking garages with retail sounds more downtownish to me, not Cass Park Village.

You can have your opinion on whether or not it should be Cass Park Village or downtown, but it's right from the Ilitch website on what Cass Park Village will be. The facts from the website contradict your opinion. It's insane to me you think parking lots are good for a community. I'm totally against parking lots, I'll take parking structures but yet, you somehow disagree with that. You sir are quite difficult.

[emu steve]

You can have your opinion on whether or not it should be Cass Park Village or downtown, but it's right from the Ilitch website on what Cass Park Village will be. The facts from the website contradict your opinion. It's insane to me you think parking lots are good for a community. I'm totally against parking lots, I'll take parking structures but yet, you somehow disagree with that. You sir are quite difficult.

Parking garages are upscale. Cass Corridor is not upscale.

No one likes parking lots but there are a fact of life. I am very familiar with D.C. and multi-family buildings with scores of housing units which have no parking. Period.

I think some folks on boards like this are dreamers and describe something which will never work financially.

I do my assessment based on what I know about urban affordability.

It is my opinion, based on what I know of the area, and I actually know it and other urban areas, that would you describe for 640 Temple will not work financially, if it is a high amenity building. The developer can dress up the Temple frontage.

What can I say. I think what your describe is pie-in-the-sky.

Folks post whatever they want on forums and then commercial lenders bring them back to earth...

[Zads07]

What can I say. I think what your describe is pie-in-the-sky.

Folks post whatever they want on forums and then commercial lenders bring them back to earth...

So what you are saying is......and hear me out......is that the Ilitch plan is pie-in-the-sky. Amazing.

[emu steve]

So what you are saying is......and hear me out......is that the Ilitch plan is pie-in-the-sky. Amazing.

Lest you conflate, confuse, etc. there are five distinct neighborhoods which are part of 'District Detroit.'

What will go up by Comerica [[residences) has no relevance to what will happen in Cass Park Village.

BTW, the building we are talking about [[640 Temple) isn't even an Ilitch building. Correct?

So in a sense, Ilitches don't even belong in the conversation and they are NOT the property owner or developer.

[emu steve]

So what you are saying is......and hear me out......is that the Ilitch plan is pie-in-the-sky. Amazing.

Cass Park Village will not be the 'high rent district' in the area.

If someone wants to plunk down big bucks for a rental it will be closer to Woodward on one of the many developments [[e.g., The Scott, City Modern, future residences near Comerica, as well as by LCA itself, etc.).

[Zads07]

Lest you conflate, confuse, etc. there are five distinct neighborhoods which are part of 'District Detroit.'

What will go up by Comerica [[residences) has no relevance to what will happen in Cass Park Village.

BTW, the building we are talking about [[640 Temple) isn't even an Ilitch building. Correct?

So in a sense, Ilitches don't even belong in the conversation and they are NOT the property owner or developer.

Alright Steve, you're going on some different tangents here, I'm going to attempt to keep this on course, because I'm genuinely curious as to how you got to where you're at in your opinion.

The owners are not the Ilitches [[thank goodness). The area they bought the building in is Cass Park Village, pitched by the Ilitches as part of District Detroit.

So the paragraph above describing Cass Park Village is described the Ilitches and you think what is described by the Ilitches is not meant for that area. That's totally ok, but all I said was they should build a parking garage and you are against that, because that area is not upscale.

The reason it's not upscale is because in part, Ilitch bought land and buildings and sat on them. Now, it's not all his fault because that are was in decline LONG before he bought buildings, but he helped contribute to the decline or at least stagnation because he did nothing with the land and buildings he bought.

What I'm getting at is you think a parking garage of all things is not necessary because it's not 'upscale' enough for that area? I really don't understand your logic here and I'm really trying.

[emu steve]

Once again I think you are misrepresenting what I said.

First of all, I need to go off topic. I'm a baby boomer. I lived at WSU my senior year. After college I lved a year at the Leland House [[which was very nice). Worked in the downtown area. I actually had been in 640 Temple ages ago on behalf of family. I traveled Cass to work.

I know the Cass Corridor and Temple area from decades ago and when I'm in town for sporting events I take Cass or 2nd or 3rd out of the area to get to WB 94 at Trumbull.

I still have a lot of memories of the Cass Corridor in my head from my younger days. It was awful. It is almost heaven today compared to back then.

Based on my life experience with the 'southern Cass Corridor' I do not compare it to Brush Park, downtown [[the Leland House project), etc.

It still has a long ways to go before it becomes a solid residential neighborhood. Sammy's Brush Park is showing great life.

So... Where is this going?

The Leland House probably can support expensive things like a parking garage [[BTW I parked my car there, used their swimming pool, etc.).

I don't know how old the Cass Corridor is. Maybe even 75 years??? It predates the first Ilitch pizza. I do remember the stories from my mother tha the 'skid row' moved from Michigan Ave. to the Cass Corridor many decades ago [[as discussed on this forum).

I totally reject [[100%) the notion that the Ilitches have anything to do with Cass Corridor being the Cass Corridor. Total stretch. Cass Corridor predates Comerica, Fox, Ford Field, etc. by maybe 50 years.

As far as what kind of parking at 640 Temple: The developers should do what they want and think works financially.

If they can make it work financially, more power to them. Just hope they are smart business people. It is their money, not yours or mine.

[masterblaster]

Mr. Steve, your objections to a parking garage and your insistence that this area cannot be upscale and off the beateneighborhood path is questionable. See below:

1. This building is located within the District Detroit boundaries. The entire type of District Detroit is envisioned to be upscale, not just the section along Woodward and Brush Park.

2. This building sits on a block that is across the street from the Masonic Temple. Is the Masonic Temple off the beaten path?

3. This building sits on a block that is only 3 blocks from Woodward [[You have Woodward, Park Avenue, Cass Ave, and then 2nd Avenue). That is not that far from Woodward at all.

4. It is awesome that a developer besides the Ilyich family is doing probjects in the District. This demonstrates that developers outside of the Ilyich family sees investing in the District is a profitable endeavor.

4. The Platform is building a 6 story mixed use project called Third and Grand in the New Center, which will include a parking garage. That project is far more off the beaten path than 640 Temple.

5. This building is across the street from Cass Park. If a major investment is made to restore/re-invigorate this park [[ including my dream of bringing back the fountain in the middle of the park), the area around the park could become one of the desirable urban spaces in the state. [[Thinkle a smaller version of Philly's Rittenhouse Square)

6. The article I read about 640 Temple said a 1-story westward extension of the building to 3Rd Avenue would be built that would contain this development's retail and restaurant space. So the streetwall would be extended to the end of the block and probably surface parking in back, which is a good compromise.

[emu steve]

MasterBlaster:

I HOPE I'm being too pessimistic. Maybe I'be proven WRONG. I hope I am.

I have posted many times that it would be great if Temple from Woodward to the Lodge made a big comeback. Lot of residential buildings there to be restored.

The next several years should be interesting.

[Zads07]

Thank you for clarifying your comments EMU Steve.

This is hypothetical if they build a garage or not. Let's just be happy another old building is being restored in the city.