Restoration at Woodward and Baltimore in Detroit
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  1. #76

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    Is it a good investment for the Fed & State to spend millions so that a few storefronts can be placed on this overpass? Shouldn't a lot more of the empty space on both sides of Woodward be filled in first? I get that Ilitch wants a more attractive walk to the LCA but if he leaves surface parking anywhere on Woodward isn't this just an indirect gov't subsidy of it?

  2. #77

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    One big thing is being missed here:

    Notice the west side expansion is a triangle/wedge shape. There is a reason, and it’s not just artistically framing the walk to the arena. Widening the bridge over the southwest corner would mean putting more bridge decking above the NB I-75 onramp from Clifford St, which the further you go west, the higher up in elevation that onramp is.

    Note also at Woodward currently the vertical clearance is only 14’6”, which is actually fairly short for interstate standards. Pushing the bridge further west would result in an even shorter vertical clearance, as more of the elevating onramp would be covered. There is no way the FHWA would approve shortening the vertical clearance more on an already substandard height clearance.

    Hence the Southwest corner of the Woodward bridge is not widened, and we get the triangle shape. This allows the northwest corner of the bridge to be expanded outward, and the clearance issue is not impacted.

    Long story short, that onramp to NB I-75 from Clifford creates all sorts of problems. For those wishing for a full freeway “cap” between Clifford and Woodward, this ramp is what is preventing it. Which is a shame, because it would also be great to connect Park Ave with the new arena too. Getting rid of that onramp would also allow such a connection.

    To end on a happier note, as part of the I-375 boulevard project being proposed, a new onramp from the NB service drive to I-75 NB is proposed near Brush Street. (See the graphic in their latest proposal). What would be great is that if traffic using the Clifford onramp was just sent two blocks further down the service drive to this new onramp at Brush, and then the Clifford onramp was removed all-together.

    With the Clifford onramp gone, the potential to cap the freeway, and allow a pedestrian connection over I-75 at Park Avenue becomes possible to build. (Hint, hint... to anyone official reading this post).

  3. #78

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    the rendering also shows the new highrise + live block complete with triangular skylight roof exactly the same as st louis' ballpark village. not sure how a large food hall up the block from the Hudson large food hall will work. I'm guessing the Comerica food hall will be pretty dead on non-game days...

  4. #79

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    Has anyone been to a Live! venue? I am wondering if they feel as artificial and inauthentic as they look.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    Has anyone been to a Live! venue? I am wondering if they feel as artificial and inauthentic as they look.
    Re: BPV in STL....They’re a generic/corporate/mall safe space for out of towners and tourists to go to get a sanitized experience in the city. Very similar to a chain restaurant (applebees/sports bar) experience u get in the burbs but with hofbrau house scale. they are large and open thus they pull a lot of traffic from many of the local independents on game days. If you like mobs of people, sticky floors, mediocre food, and smelly glass watery draft beer it’s the place.
    Last edited by hybridy; February-07-18 at 04:57 PM.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    Re: BPV in STL....They’re a generic/corporate/mall safe space for out of towners and tourists to go to get a sanitized experience in the city. Very similar to a chain restaurant (applebees/sports bar) experience u get in the burbs but with hofbrau house scale. they are large and open thus they pull a lot of traffic from many of the local independents on game days. If you like mobs of people, sticky floors, mediocre food, and smelly glass watery draft beer it’s the place.
    Thats definitely the vibe I got from the photos I’ve seen. I look forward to avoiding this at all costs. Anyone wanna take bets that the tacky Disney-esque aspect of this plan gets built while the towers never come to fruition?

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    Thats definitely the vibe I got from the photos I’ve seen. I look forward to avoiding this at all costs. Anyone wanna take bets that the tacky Disney-esque aspect of this plan gets built while the towers never come to fruition?
    Sadly, as funny as your comment is, that bet is pretty solid with the silly Disney pavilion getting built and as usual Detroit misses out on some badly-needed highrises (because we obviously build too many of those). Ugh! Detroit is starved for new skyscraper construction SMH. I live near Chicago and it’s nothing for them to build 30, 40 story buildings. No one blinks or foams at the mouth at such developments.

  8. #83

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    I'm thinking that it will not be a Live! venue. Those seem to be a full out commercial space.

    I feel that since you have the Columbia Street 'experience' when walking from the west towards the stadiums between the Fox and new HQ. That this 'experience' will continue until you get to the park entrance. The 3D model shows a park in the space. Maybe they are contemplating adding a covered structure for the year round experience? This could be similar to the Via or Piazza at LCA, where you can have a secured area. Add some portable beer tubs and entertainment.

  9. #84

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    Hi everyone. First post here. I decided to share these renderings I found of a development called "Detroit Live!". Definitely a Cordish development with the Live! name and hotel. The renderings also seem to be companions to the black and white rendering on one of the previous pages. Seems ambitious. Hopefully, Cordish can pull it off without Olympia Development screwing with it. This came from a website called "NelsonWorldwide.com"
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  10. #85

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    Don’t get your hopes up.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriss752 View Post
    Hi everyone. First post here. I decided to share these renderings I found of a development called "Detroit Live!". Definitely a Cordish development with the Live! name and hotel. The renderings also seem to be companions to the black and white rendering on one of the previous pages. Seems ambitious. Hopefully, Cordish can pull it off without Olympia Development screwing with it. This came from a website called "NelsonWorldwide.com"
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    WTF would anyone want to live in the middle of that CF?

  12. #87

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    I'm willing to bet a lefty leaning body part that ain't happening

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    WTF would anyone want to live in the middle of that CF?
    Hey! He's a newbie who is polite!

    Hey criss752... welcome to the forum. The Ilitches now have a major public relations problem... such as they are not building anything but parking lots at the moment in their "District Detroit" area. One of the first things that would likely happen (after Hell freezes over), would be the widening of the Woodward overpass over the Fisher Fwy. for wider sidewalks and small retail on the bridge... likely before any of those towers ever gets built. The only thing going to happen anytime soon is between the Palms Building (Fillmore/State Theatre) and Grand Circus Park, is a 20 story bank HQ for Chemical Bank and its new co-owner bank.

    But as for the Ilitches... go check out Facebook page "Terrible Ilitches" for more info on their very poor track record of building anything except parking.

  14. #89

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    Oh wow actual renderings of the buildings on the Olympia model we saw about a year ago.

    The thing with these flashy renderings (besides being developments that will never happen) is they don't consider that a vast majority of the Red Wings and Pistons games at the arena will take place in the winter. The renderings show tables and patios and people mingling outside, but I see places where they will inevitably put huge piles of snow that won't melt until April, when the Red Wings have long been out of playoff contention.

    LA Live is great because it's beautiful year-round. But in Detroit, you get these public spaces like the Chevy Plaza or this rendering, that sit cold and empty for 8 months a year.

  15. #90

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    Nice renderings but if memory serves me correctly the Ilitch family parted ways with Cordish within the last year. Im guessing it was the same complaint as other developers have had working with them in that they micromanage and want to control every aspect of things.

  16. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    Oh wow actual renderings of the buildings on the Olympia model we saw about a year ago.

    The thing with these flashy renderings (besides being developments that will never happen) is they don't consider that a vast majority of the Red Wings and Pistons games at the arena will take place in the winter. The renderings show tables and patios and people mingling outside, but I see places where they will inevitably put huge piles of snow that won't melt until April, when the Red Wings have long been out of playoff contention.

    LA Live is great because it's beautiful year-round. But in Detroit, you get these public spaces like the Chevy Plaza or this rendering, that sit cold and empty for 8 months a year.
    Good point about the weather in Detroit and how it makes amenities at an installation like this seem kind of wasted and out of place. Works in a town like LA, that’s for sure. Or where I live. Granted Austin doesn’t have any professional sports teams sadly. As a complete aside, as bad as Detroit’s sports teams are and have been, I will never be a band-wagoner and root for some Texas team. Some people may be able to cheer for the local teams of the city to which they move, not me. Detroit sports fan till the day I die....Depression and anger and grief that comes with it, lol.

  17. #92

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    Which means those two complexes will be not built until the year 2025 that will after the Great Recession brought to you by President Trump. Making America Great Again.

  18. #93

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    The Ilitch family has ZERO credibility when it comes to downtown development. The only thing they've managed to do was build taxpayer-funded arenas and they have kind-of built the new Pizza HQ, but that's been taking a really long time to finish up.

    My fears with Gilbert are about whether or not they'll scale down certain projects. My fears with The Ilitch family is whether or not they'll ever actually start on anything that they promised.

  19. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Hey! He's a newbie who is polite!
    Thanx mom, What day were elections for hall monitor held? You might want to check if SCS offers remedial reading classes somewhere.

  20. #95

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    "Ah, yes.............."
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  21. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    The Ilitch family has ZERO credibility when it comes to downtown development. The only thing they've managed to do was build taxpayer-funded arenas and they have kind-of built the new Pizza HQ, but that's been taking a really long time to finish up.

    My fears with Gilbert are about whether or not they'll scale down certain projects. My fears with The Ilitch family is whether or not they'll ever actually start on anything that they promised.
    In all fairness, aside from that one parking garage, Gilbert hasn't built anything (yet) either.

    And the Illitches do at least deserve credit for renovating the Fox Theatre, paying for Wayne Staye's new business school building, playing a critical role in bringing back one of Detroit's professional sports teams from the suburbs and repurposing an abandoned bread factory into a significant revenue generator for the city.

  22. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    In all fairness, aside from that one parking garage, Gilbert hasn't built anything (yet) either.

    And the Illitches do at least deserve credit for renovating the Fox Theatre, paying for Wayne Staye's new business school building, playing a critical role in bringing back one of Detroit's professional sports teams from the suburbs and repurposing an abandoned bread factory into a significant revenue generator for the city.


    Ilitch does deserve some credit... but not in the last 20 years (Gores deserves the credit for bringing the Pistons back). Check out one of the 97 buildings Gilbert is restoring... the big one...

    http://www.dailydetroit.com/2017/07/...ing-back-life/

    The Ilitches have ONLY finished restoring 1 building... the Fox, in 1987-88.... that is 32 years ago! Although "in all fairness"... they have been working on restoring building #2... the Detroit Life Building.... restoration planning work started 6 years ago!!

    https://www.friedmanrealestate.com/d...ces-and-shops/
    Last edited by Gistok; August-18-19 at 08:13 PM.

  23. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    "In all fairness"???? Is the glass always half empty with you now that you live in Georgia?

    Check out one of the 97 buildings Gilbert is restoring... here... start with the big one...

    http://www.dailydetroit.com/2017/07/...ing-back-life/

    The Ilitches have ONLY finished restoring 1 building... the Fox, in 1987-88.... that is 32 YEARS AGO!! Although IN ALL FAIRNESS... they have been working on restoring building #2... the Detroit Life Building.... restoration planning work started 6 years ago!!

    https://www.friedmanrealestate.com/d...ces-and-shops/
    While I agree with you, I think we have to give them credit for Hockeytown Cafe/City Theater too. It's an awful restaurant and the building badly needs an update...but that is beside the point of this thread.

  24. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier View Post
    While I agree with you, I think we have to give them credit for Hockeytown Cafe/City Theater too. It's an awful restaurant and the building badly needs an update...but that is beside the point of this thread.
    Haven't been inside there in some time (not since Second City left)... but that site had 2 previous Hughes Hatcher store reincarnations before it became Hockeytown...

    #1 (early 20th century)....
    https://digitalcollections.detroitpu...landora:158445

    #2 (1930s)....
    https://www.detroityes.com/mb/attach...4&d=1323457220

    I believe they used the structural framework of the previous building, and added onto it. Not sure that could be called a rehab or new build, based on the radical changes.
    Last edited by Gistok; August-18-19 at 07:54 PM.

  25. #100

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    If we’re being fair, Gilbert also built 28Grand and the Ilitches are currently renovating the Women’s City Club Building. Whether it actually gets done or sits in a half finished state for a decade and a half is a different story.

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