2018 Detroit Tigers

[Zads07]

The official DetroitYES thread for discussion of the 2018 Detroit Tigers.

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"The round-top Old English ‘D’ — a version that has been worn on the left breast nearly every season since the mid-1930s — will be replaced with the team’s primary logo beginning this season, the Tigers announced on Thursday morning."

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...ms/1063791001/

[EastsideAl]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...ms/1063791001/

"The round-top Old English ‘D’ — a version that has been worn on the left breast nearly every season since the mid-1930s — will be replaced with the team’s primary logo beginning this season, the Tigers announced on Thursday morning."

Thus undoing one of the greatest and longest-standing uniform 'quirks' in American sports: the disparity between the "cap D" and the "jersey D" that has been part of Detroit Tiger uniforms going back into the mists of baseball history [[or at least since the '30s). Someone in the new management must have some unbearable OCD or something.

Interestingly, they've chosen the newer of the 2. The current cap "D" goes back to 1963 [[earlier versions had a rounded top, a bit more similar to the jersey D). The current jersey "D" goes back to 1908 [[the Tigers started using the "D" in a simpler form in 1904) and was used on and off until it became permanent in 1934.

Of course, the Tigers' use of the Olde English letter style was pretty clearly swiped from the masthead of the Detroit Free Press, which had used that typeface [[with a rounded "D" similar to the jersey version) going back into the 1830s.

So why change something that ain't really broken? What's wrong with the Tigers certainly won't be fixed by changing the uniforms.

[Ray1936]

Minor twitching. No big deal. Meanwhile, Vegas sports books have them at 150-1 to win the World Series in 2018. I'd make it more like 1000-1, but that's just me.

[Zads07]

Minor twitching. No big deal. Meanwhile, Vegas sports books have them at 150-1 to win the World Series in 2018. I'd make it more like 1000-1, but that's just me.

Not minor. This is a big change to the uniform that has been nearly the main logo since the inception of the club. This is messing with perfection and there is immense fan backlash that this club will regret making this move.

[EastsideAl]

Not minor. This is a big change to the uniform that has been nearly the main logo since the inception of the club. This is messing with perfection and there is immense fan backlash that this club will regret making this move.

You do have to wonder why they would take any chance on alienating fans even further at a time when their on-field product is so remarkably awful.

[Hamtragedy]

You do have to wonder why they would take any chance on alienating fans even further at a time when their on-field product is so remarkably awful.

Let's Fire Ernie Harwell while we're at it.

[DetroitSoldier]

I don't think this had to be done. I think the club was in need of some news headlines going in to the spring and this was really just all they could come up with.

This was the better option of the two to keep though. The brand has been leaning this way for a long time. It would have cost millions to retrofit Comerica Park to the other version of the D. Hell as I look at CoPa and the new parking structures at this moment, I can count at least 30 D's, and that is just from a Woodward vantage point.

[canuck]

A better problem to have than having a forced name change underfoot, i.e.: Indians, Redskins. Unless of course a buncha old englishmen somewhere complained about cultural misappropriation of their alphabet!?

[drjeff]

This is unnecessary and frankly stupid. I have no confidence in the morons currently running the Tigers at any level. This team is going to suck for a long, long time. All those trades that yielded "prospects" in exchange for star players might turn into a few average major leaguers at best. There are no future stars in this bunch.

[KJ5]

Am I the only person who likes this move? I've always liked the pointy D better; I think it looks classier.
At any rate this is a minor tweak. The real issue is the product on the field is going to stink for at least 2 or 3 years.

[SammyS]

Merchandise money grab?

[401don]

This is unnecessary and frankly stupid. I have no confidence in the morons currently running the Tigers at any level. This team is going to suck for a long, long time. All those trades that yielded "prospects" in exchange for star players might turn into a few average major leaguers at best. There are no future stars in this bunch.

Who exactly are the star players the Tigers traded? Stars are guys like Altuve, Lindor, Judge, Harper, Stanton, Trout, Machado, etc. Every one of those guys was a prospect on their team before becoming a star. I guess the Tigers should have kept 35 yr. old Ian Kinsler and his .235 batting average or paid JD Martinez 25 million per year for his below avg. defense. Why hasn't he received a contract anywhere? Maybe they should have forced Verlander to stick around at 28 million a year even though he said he wanted no part of a rebuild? Had we kept those guys with our current pitching we would be lucky to play .500. This team should have been broken up two years earlier but, understandably, Mike Ilitch wanted one last shot before he passed even though I'm certain he knew it was a long shot. The Tigers tried to build a championship through free agency twice in the last 12 years and came close but without a core of young players from their farm system they came up short. I guess you want Chris Ilitch to spend 300 million on payroll. The team has a core of 4-5 starting pitching prospects to provide a foundation and now must develop some everyday players by trading for prospects. Candelario looks like a solid player at 3rd and Daz Cameron in center. Paredes may be a good middle infielder. They need a couple more everyday players, one or two of whom are stars. NO TEAM is giving up their top prospects in trades anymore. Then they can dip into free agency. This is and always has been the only way to build a team. So please, quit whining!

[emu steve]

Thus undoing one of the greatest and longest-standing uniform 'quirks' in American sports: the disparity between the "cap D" and the "jersey D" that has been part of Detroit Tiger uniforms going back into the mists of baseball history [[or at least since the '30s). Someone in the new management must have some unbearable OCD or something.

Interestingly, they've chosen the newer of the 2. The current cap "D" goes back to 1963 [[earlier versions had a rounded top, a bit more similar to the jersey D). The current jersey "D" goes back to 1908 [[the Tigers started using the "D" in a simpler form in 1904) and was used on and off until it became permanent in 1934.

Of course, the Tigers' use of the Olde English letter style was pretty clearly swiped from the masthead of the Detroit Free Press, which had used that typeface [[with a rounded "D" similar to the jersey version) going back into the 1830s.

So why change something that ain't really broken? What's wrong with the Tigers certainly won't be fixed by changing the uniforms.

What am I supposed to do with this jacket now?

[emu steve]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...ms/1063791001/

"The round-top Old English ‘D’ — a version that has been worn on the left breast nearly every season since the mid-1930s — will be replaced with the team’s primary logo beginning this season, the Tigers announced on Thursday morning."

What concerns me if that the Tigers will be replacing seats at Comerica with butts in them to seats without [[butts in them).

Tickets are now on sale and plenty of Opening Day tickets are available.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Catholics believe in purgatory, a place where one spends time for their sins. Well 2018 [[2019? 2020?) will be purgatory for Tigers' fans and the Tigers' CFO [[and vendors, etc. etc.).

Ticket sales might plummet in 2018. I'll guess at least 500K compared to last year.

Someone once told me, 'no free lunches on Wall Street.' Well 2018 isn't going to be a nice, free lunch for the Tigers.

It will be ugly [[even though the team might not be as bad as I previously thought).

[emu steve]

Who exactly are the star players the Tigers traded? Stars are guys like Altuve, Lindor, Judge, Harper, Stanton, Trout, Machado, etc. Every one of those guys was a prospect on their team before becoming a star. I guess the Tigers should have kept 35 yr. old Ian Kinsler and his .235 batting average or paid JD Martinez 25 million per year for his below avg. defense. Why hasn't he received a contract anywhere? Maybe they should have forced Verlander to stick around at 28 million a year even though he said he wanted no part of a rebuild? Had we kept those guys with our current pitching we would be lucky to play .500. This team should have been broken up two years earlier but, understandably, Mike Ilitch wanted one last shot before he passed even though I'm certain he knew it was a long shot. The Tigers tried to build a championship through free agency twice in the last 12 years and came close but without a core of young players from their farm system they came up short. I guess you want Chris Ilitch to spend 300 million on payroll. The team has a core of 4-5 starting pitching prospects to provide a foundation and now must develop some everyday players by trading for prospects. Candelario looks like a solid player at 3rd and Daz Cameron in center. Paredes may be a good middle infielder. They need a couple more everyday players, one or two of whom are stars. NO TEAM is giving up their top prospects in trades anymore. Then they can dip into free agency. This is and always has been the only way to build a team. So please, quit whining!

If I'm following MLB correctly this is what I see:

The market [[price for free agents) has gotten too expensive.

The 'remedy': Develop your own and control them at very sweet salary levels.

Eventually this market will even out where the price [[salary) for FAs will become more reasonable and teams will begin bidding on them.

What does Judge make? How much would he make if he were a FA and could command an open-market salary.

And yes, teams like Detroit, Miami, Pittsburgh, etc. aren't doing anything to keep FA competition going.

[Hermod]

Who exactly are the star players the Tigers traded? Stars are guys like Altuve, Lindor, Judge, Harper, Stanton, Trout, Machado, etc. Every one of those guys was a prospect on their team before becoming a star. I guess the Tigers should have kept 35 yr. old Ian Kinsler and his .235 batting average or paid JD Martinez 25 million per year for his below avg. defense. Why hasn't he received a contract anywhere? Maybe they should have forced Verlander to stick around at 28 million a year even though he said he wanted no part of a rebuild? Had we kept those guys with our current pitching we would be lucky to play .500. This team should have been broken up two years earlier but, understandably, Mike Ilitch wanted one last shot before he passed even though I'm certain he knew it was a long shot. The Tigers tried to build a championship through free agency twice in the last 12 years and came close but without a core of young players from their farm system they came up short. I guess you want Chris Ilitch to spend 300 million on payroll.

When Casey Stengel was managing the Yankees, he said, better to trade a guy a year early than to trade him a year late."

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Am I the only person who likes this move? I've always liked the pointy D better; I think it looks classier.
At any rate this is a minor tweak. The real issue is the product on the field is going to stink for at least 2 or 3 years.

You’re not the only one; I much prefer the “pointy” D.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Tigers aren't the only team making changes.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...-logo-uniforms

[Bham1982]

I
What does Judge make? How much would he make if he were a FA and could command an open-market salary.

Judge made 507k last year. A terrific bargain by MLB standards.

On the open market, I don't know, $25 million/yr? He has only one year of stats and is a strikeout king, but is also one of the most fearsome bashers in baseball.

But I doubt the NYY will ever let him hit free agency.

[Ray1936]

Tigers aren't the only team making changes.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...-logo-uniforms

Ah, me. The snowflakes win again.

[emu steve]

Tigers aren't the only team making changes.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...-logo-uniforms

This reminds me of an old story, presumably true, about such:

Edward Bennett Williams owned the Baltimore Orioles and a young marketing intern mentioned to him that the caricature Oriole on the teams' caps didn't seem right.

Edward Bennett Williams shot back: [[paraphrasing) "the team just lost 100 damn games and you're worried about a baseball cap..."

I'll see if I can find the story. It might have been told by the late, great sports talk host [[when it was information and not crazy banter) Ken Beatrice.

************
Apparently there is at least some truth to the story:

"After winning the World Series in 1983, the Orioles organization began to decline. In 1986 the team suffered its first losing season since 1967. The 1988 season started unceremoniously when the Orioles lost their first 21 contests, and ended the year at 54-107, the worst record for the franchise since 1939. The horrendous season resulted in the dismissal of manager Cal Ripken, Sr. and his replacement by former Oriole great Frank Robinson.The next year, the O's sported a new look, replacing the cartoonish bird with a more realistic one.

[[from Wikipedia).

And, history could repeat here in Detroit. Tigers could lose 100 games while fans fuss about the old English D.

[401don]

Tigers aren't the only team making changes.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...-logo-uniforms

Maybe they should change the team name also. Anything to stop that idiot in the outfield from banging on his drum.

[drjeff]

Who exactly are the star players the Tigers traded? Stars are guys like Altuve, Lindor, Judge, Harper, Stanton, Trout, Machado, etc. Every one of those guys was a prospect on their team before becoming a star. I guess the Tigers should have kept 35 yr. old Ian Kinsler and his .235 batting average or paid JD Martinez 25 million per year for his below avg. defense. Why hasn't he received a contract anywhere? Maybe they should have forced Verlander to stick around at 28 million a year even though he said he wanted no part of a rebuild? Had we kept those guys with our current pitching we would be lucky to play .500. This team should have been broken up two years earlier but, understandably, Mike Ilitch wanted one last shot before he passed even though I'm certain he knew it was a long shot. The Tigers tried to build a championship through free agency twice in the last 12 years and came close but without a core of young players from their farm system they came up short. I guess you want Chris Ilitch to spend 300 million on payroll. The team has a core of 4-5 starting pitching prospects to provide a foundation and now must develop some everyday players by trading for prospects. Candelario looks like a solid player at 3rd and Daz Cameron in center. Paredes may be a good middle infielder. They need a couple more everyday players, one or two of whom are stars. NO TEAM is giving up their top prospects in trades anymore. Then they can dip into free agency. This is and always has been the only way to build a team. So please, quit whining!

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because a player is in the minors does not make him a top prospect. The stars you named, everyone knew would be good. The minor leaguers we got in trades, based on their records to date, might become average major leaguers at best. This is why I'm angry about it. Management traded several all star players and got average in return. The system as a whole still sucks, the drafting has not yielded much of value, and players in the system who were touted as "future stars" have not turned into anything more than average. Average does not win.

I've been a season ticket holder for 20 years and watch nearly every game I'm not attending on TV. I coached baseball. The Tigers system right now is terrible. Frankly I don't care if Verlander "didn't want to play for a rebuilding team." He was under contract, is a future hall of famer, and should have been a Tigers for life. The 2018 Tigers will probably lose 110 games and it will be years before they contend again.

/end rant

[Lowell]

With Spring training nearing, time to throw some wood in the hot stove.
Projected line up appears to be:

	Player	POS	OBP	SLG	OPS
1	Mikie Mahtook	OF	.309	.435	.744
2	Jeimer Candelario	3B	.325	.433	.758
3	Miguel Cabrera	1B	.369	.479	.848
4	Victor Martinez	DH	.334	.418	.752
5	Nick Castellanos	OF	.322	.479	.801
6	James McCann	C	.302	.394	.696
7	Leonys Martin	OF	.297	.39	.687
8	Dixon Machado	2B	.302	.315	.617
9	Jose Iglesias	SS	.303	.359	.662

Starting Pitching:

	Player	POS	W	L	ERA
1	Michael Fulmer	SP	10	9	3.55
2	Matt Boyd	SP	5	13	4.56
3	Daniel Norris	SP	6	10	4.47
4	Jordan Zimmermann	SP	5	12	4.56
5	Mike Fiers	SP	7	8	4.17
6	Buck Farmer	SP	5	4	4.06

[Lowell]

Tigers' odds? 300-1 says ESPN
Odds as of Nov. 1, 2017.
2018 World Series Odds

TEAM	OPENING ODDS
Los Angeles Dodgers	5-1
Cleveland Indians	6-1
Houston Astros	6-1
Washington Nationals	7-1
New York Yankees	8-1
Boston Red Sox	10-1
Chicago Cubs	10-1
New York Mets	20-1
Arizona Diamondbacks	20-1
St. Louis Cardinals	20-1
Tampa Bay Rays	30-1
Toronto Blue Jays	30-1
Seattle Mariners	30-1
Milwaukee Brewers	30-1
Colorado Rockies	40-1
Chicago White Sox	50-1
Los Angeles Angels	50-1
Atlanta Braves	50-1
San Francisco Giants	50-1
Baltimore Orioles	60-1
Texas Rangers	60-1
Miami Marlins	80-1
Pittsburgh Pirates	80-1
Minnesota Twins	80-1
Kansas City Royals	80-1
Oakland Athletics	80-1
Philadelphia Phillies	80-1
Cincinnati Reds	80-1
San Diego Padres	80-1
Detroit Tigers	300-1