Lincoln Park Husband & Dad Deported to Mexico after Living in the US for 30 Years

[Wesley Mouch]

Not all standards are racist, but some are. ...
"Immigrants to the United States should have a clean criminal record and no ties to terrorism" - Racist or not racist?

"No immigrants from 'shithole' black-majority countries, such as Haiti and pretty much all of Africa" - Racist or not racist?
....

Neither are racist, except maybe you for adding black-majority to Trump's words.

Some countries are 'shitholes'. That you add that many are majority black is racist, IMO. Trump's negative perceptions don't seem to fall on racial lines to me. North Korea - not black. Iran - not black [[in fact 90% caucasian/balkan/mediterranean). Pakistan - not black.

Trump did not bring race to this discussion. It appears to me that its just a rallying cry.

[Dbest]

This thread is great, one of the more civilized conversations Ive seen on immigration.

It seems as if practicality will ultimately prevail, it's just not practical to continue to let people flood in.

The Supreme Court sides with Trump on his travel ban for a reason...

[Richard]

The thing is that the old rallying cry of they do the jobs that Amercians will not or they are essential in eliminating brain drain does not hold true anymore.

The cry was collage students were graduating with heavy debt and little job opportunity,are we telling them we need to increase immigration because our existing collage graduates are not smart enough to fill our needs?

It is easy enough to buy a SS number to gain employment and circumvent employment laws so it is really nothing about jobs that others will not work,as it was in the past.

When it comes to illegal immigration,inner city schools and opportunities ,mass transit,infrastructure etc. we as the people need to stop allowing band aid approaches and allowing our politicians to use these issues as a weapon,we need solutions otherwise we reap what we sow.

[Zacha341]

Hah. Yeah what was up with that? Perhaps that self-loathing factor once again!

The cry was collage students were graduating with heavy debt and little job opportunity,are we telling them we need to increase immigration because our existing collage graduates are not smart enough to fill our needs?

[Richard]

The power of technology,it is easy to go back on you tube and look at the 2007 debates between then senator Obama and Hillary Clinton and their views on immigration.

They both said the exact thing,pay a heavy fine,go to the end of the line and apply like everybody else,attend english classes,immigration has always been a political hot potato.

Senator Obama was for the issue of driver licenses,Hillary was against.

DACA was ment to be a temporary stop gap measure while immigration reform was being worked on,at the same time the democrats controlled the house,senate and the presidency.

So at that time the democrats were for the exact same thing as the republicans are now,it was acceptable back then but not now?

What has changed?

[Richard]

Hah. Yeah what was up with that? Perhaps that self-loathing factor once again!

I never really agreed with the whole forgiveness of student debt aspect,more so on concentrating on providing the opportunity to be able to repay that debt.

I think we are wrong as a country to tell a citizen to pay their debt but yet allow non citizens the same prospect debt free.We can find the funds for one but not the other?

[aj3647]

Neither are racist, except maybe you for adding black-majority to Trump's words.

Just a weird coincidence that the guy who got sued not once but TWICE by the government in the 70's and 80's for not renting apartments to black people in his high-end New York rental properties just happened to categorize almost every black-majority country on earth as being a "shit hole." Then followed it up by saying "we need more immigrants from Norway." Totally not racist unless if you can't see between the lines. His base can, which is why the Daily Stormer had nothing but glowing things to say about Trump's words.

[Richard]

^ it is called economics and you are useing racism as an argument.

We can not even address our own poor and homeless regardless of color so is it wise to open the gates and bring in more,or get our own house in order first then be in a position to help others?

Most countries require a minimum of a personal investment of $500k to apply for citizenship or the ability to support yourself with documented funds,you can gain citizenship in Panama for instance if you are retired and can prove pension or source of income outside of the country of $2000 a month.

So are all of those other countries considered racist? African nations have immigration policies also and are having a hard time dealing with there illegal immigrants,but they sell them as slaves,so are they racist also?

Name one country that you as an American can move to with haveing a verifiable source of funds to support yourself,even at that most will only allow you living rights and not citizenship.

IF you are a certified English language instructor or are highly skilled in a field that little are,stem cell etc. then your odds are higher.

Name one country.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^ it is called economics and you are useing racism as an argument.

We can not even address our own poor and homeless regardless of color so is it wise to open the gates and bring in more,or get our own house in order first then be in a position to help others?

Now this, we are in agreement on. Clean up your own house, before you clean someone else's.

[aj3647]

But like I said before, Trump's dog-whistle racism [[loudspeaker racism? It's really not subtle enough to even be considered a dog whistle) got through with its message to its intended audience...

Neo-Nazis celebrate Trump's "shithole" comment: He's "on the same page as us."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...-the-same-page

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8157796.html

White supremacists have reacted with delight to Donald Trump’s alleged “sh**hole countries” comments, with a prominent neo-Nazi claiming they suggested the US president was “more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration”.

While Donald Trump’s reported comments attracted near-worldwide condemnation, American racists hailed them as an “illuminating and beautiful” contribution to the start of a revolution that would “restore racial sanity”.

And neo-Nazi Andrew Anglin used his Daily Stormer website to claim the controversy was “encouraging and refreshing” because “it indicates Trump is more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration.”

If Trump's comments were about "economics" and not race, maybe tell that to the white supremacists and neo-Nazis. They sure as fuck seemed to think Trump's comments were about race. How ever did they get that impression, I wonder?

[Richard]

^ you are slipping,you forgot to add homophobic deplorables to the list.

People like their time in the spotlight, even ones that put fellow Amercians in the ditch,which makes them just as bad as a nazi or white supremacist,if one shows more compassion towards somebody from another country over their own fellow citizens they are no better then the Nazis or white supremacist.

Quit being played like a cheap card in a casino,the Hispanic population is the largest growing population in the country,this is about building a voter base,nothing to do with racism or immigration or even the color of the presidents shorts.

Politics is a numbers game and compassion is a tool in the box to gain numbers,it would have been resolved long ago,think about it,mass deportations began in the depression years and even through all of these years still no solution,because it is a good talking point to gain votes.

It does not matter which way we lean,it is every Americans problem and we need to deal with it,calling names and throwing mindless insults is a school yard avoidance of the issue and gets no where.

Ypu can stand in the corner stamping your feet and cry racist all day long,but at the end of the day and again tomorrow morning that bus will be full going back across the border because they have the letter of the law on their side,spend your energy how best you see fit but without a plan your just spinning in circles and increasing your blood pressure pointlessly.

[aj3647]

if one shows more compassion towards somebody from another country over their own fellow citizens they are no better then the Nazis or white supremacist.

So if I walk pass a car accident and in one car is an illegal immigrant who is bleeding to death and in the other car is an American citizen who has a broken wrist, and I first try to help the illegal immigrant, I'm "no better than a Nazi?"

I don't even have a response to that. Your words speak for themselves. They speak volumes. I can't even comprehend how people like you can be this filled with hatred for their fellow man, simply based on what country they were born in.

[Ltdave]

was this Trump's doing?

my wife was a Danish immigrant to Canada when i met her...

we filled in the 30 page [[one sided) booklet and went through the process to get her her K-1 [[Alien Fiancee) visa. it took about 7 months. after 6 months the application had expired, because in '95 the government shut down and the consulate in Toronto was closed and all paperwork moved to Montreal. i dont recall what out expenses were [[fees) but i'm quite certain it was under $3,000. we didnt get a lawyer. we didnt need one...

she entered the U.S. legally on a friday night and we got married the next afternoon. we had been planning on this wedding for about 4 months but we had to keep pushing it back because of the government shutdowns...

monday morning we drove to the U.S. Immigration office on Mt Elliott E. Jefferson and started the paperwork for her resident alien [[green) card which came in the mail about a week or so after we filed the paperwork. that card was only good for 2 years. we went back down for our interview and she was granted her 10 year green card. before it expired she started the process to become naturalized and Judge Sean Cox [[Michigan AG Mike Cox's brother) swore her in, on the anniversary of the U.S. Constitution in 2007...



if the man lived here for 20 years or more, he had more than enough time to start the process to become a LEGAL immigrant and not an illegal alien...

[Richard]

So if I walk pass a car accident and in one car is an illegal immigrant who is bleeding to death and in the other car is an American citizen who has a broken wrist, and I first try to help the illegal immigrant, I'm "no better than a Nazi?"

I don't even have a response to that. Your words speak for themselves. They speak volumes. I can't even comprehend how people like you can be this filled with hatred for their fellow man, simply based on what country they were born in.

Such the dramatic one.

If you as an American citizen believes that your fellow Amercian comes second to anybody else then you really need to be thinking about where your loyalties are and move to that country.

You said you were in the military,if you were underfire I am thinking that you would turn and shoot your fellow amercian before the enemy.

I am thankful that we did not serve together because I would not want you to have my back,I will even go as far as offering to pay your flight to the country of choice,sense you do make it clear where your loyalties are.

Of course your options are limited because most countries do not allow illegal immigration and you would just sneak back across the border and get all the luxuries that Amercians do not get.

I do not know,maybe try Canada,you can always claim political asylum by saying the currant president upsets you and you need a safe space.

[oladub]

Just a weird coincidence that the guy who got sued not once but TWICE by the government in the 70's and 80's for not renting apartments to black people in his high-end New York rental properties just happened to categorize almost every black-majority country on earth as being a "shit hole." Then followed it up by saying "we need more immigrants from Norway." Totally not racist unless if you can't see between the lines. His base can, which is why the Daily Stormer had nothing but glowing things to say about Trump's words.

You've brought up Norwegian immigrants a couple times. NPR has an article about Norwegian immigration which actually recognizes supply and demand. That's unusual for liberals.

"From 1870 to 1910 a quarter of Norway's working-age population emigrated, mostly to the United States. You read that right — one-fourth of its workers left the country.

Back then Norway was quite poor. Wages were less than a third of what they were in the United States. And the wave of emigration out of the country quickly benefited those who remained. That's because it reduced the supply of workers in Norway, so those left behind could demand higher wages. And this helped narrow Norway's wage gap with the U.S. by 25 percent over that same 40-year period, putting Norway on the path toward its status today as one of world's most prosperous nations."

Get it? You don't even have to read between the lines. When the supply of labor declines, wages go up. Reducing immigration, legal and otherwise, would, according to supply/demand, drive up wages for American workers the same as it did for Norwegian workers who stayed behind. You just have to figure out which side you are on; American workers or foreign labor and its profiteering employers. Under Obama, black Americans' wealth, incomes and home ownership rates declined relative to those of whites. Under Trump, black unemployment has declined to a 47 year low and the gap between percentages of black and white unemployment has declined to record levels. Part of the reason is that Trump is trying to remove people here "temporarily" for 17 years and others here illegally. The US economy is getting hot. Employers are having difficulty finding workers. That is driving up wages and, yes, more are trying to sneak in to take those jobs. Better though, in my opinion, that the shortage drive up wages as it did in Norway. Democrats used to support income equality. Now, California has the 2nd highest income inequality, next to NY [[also Democratic), of any state and the highest poverty rate of any state. That's where your open borders Democratic Party is taking us.

[ABetterDetroit]

^ you are slipping,you forgot to add homophobic deplorables to the list.

People like their time in the spotlight, even ones that put fellow Amercians in the ditch,which makes them just as bad as a nazi or white supremacist,if one shows more compassion towards somebody from another country over their own fellow citizens they are no better then the Nazis or white supremacist.

There you go again Richard insinuating that a poster is a Nazi again and less then a day later than the last time you did it on these boards.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying.

You might not agree with aj like you didn’t agree with me but it just shows your ignorance and willingness to put hateful labels on people when clearly aj or myself are not Nazis and would be abhorred by genocide in all forms.

Just because your new friends the Russians like to call people Nazis doesn’t mean you have to.

[Honky Tonk]

There you go again Richard insinuating that a poster is a Nazi again and less then a day later than the last time you did it on these boards.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying.

You might not agree with aj like you didnÂ’t agree with me but it just shows your ignorance and willingness to put hateful labels on people when clearly aj or myself are not Nazis and would be abhorred by genocide in all forms.

Just because your new friends the Russians like to call people Nazis doesnÂ’t mean you have to.

Living under Heir Paterson in Auburn Hills, that melting pot of diversity, probably makes you an expert on Nazi-ism, doesn't it, ABetter"Detroit"? Wait, I forgot, you guys see Mexicans all the time. They fix your roads, mow your lawns, and clean your houses.

[Richard]

There you go again Richard insinuating that a poster is a Nazi again and less then a day later than the last time you did it on these boards.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying.

You might not agree with aj like you didn’t agree with me but it just shows your ignorance and willingness to put hateful labels on people when clearly aj or myself are not Nazis and would be abhorred by genocide in all forms.

Just because your new friends the Russians like to call people Nazis doesn’t mean you have to.

I was not insinuating anything,I wrote what I wrote,if the shoe fits wear it.

As far as the Russians are concerned,it would appear that I have to be more concerned about some of my fellow Americans who pose a bigger threat then the Russians ever could.

[ABetterDetroit]

I was not insinuating anything,I wrote what I wrote,if the shoe fits wear it.

As far as the Russians are concerned,it would appear that I have to be more concerned about some of my fellow Americans who pose a bigger threat then the Russians ever could.

No. It's your inability to process logic. Maybe it's the compulsive lying to validate everything you say. I suppose you were in the nazi memorabilia business and know exactly who the customers were...

[ABetterDetroit]

Living under Heir Paterson in Auburn Hills, that melting pot of diversity, probably makes you an expert on Nazi-ism, doesn't it, ABetter"Detroit"? Wait, I forgot, you guys see Mexicans all the time. They fix your roads, mow your lawns, and clean your houses.

Well, the good news is LBP is getting long in the tooth...

[Richard]

No. It's your inability to process logic. Maybe it's the compulsive lying to validate everything you say. I suppose you were in the nazi memorabilia business and know exactly who the customers were...

Well,that was such a compelling logical reply I am almost at a loss for words.

It is not about me and it is a shared feeling on both sides.

Maybe you and AJ can hook up with Cher and start a singing trio across the border,life is to short to be spending it in a country that you cannot stand.

I can imagine you three sitting in the corner of some dark smokey run down bar singing renditions of,I got you babe.

Who knows maybe you will find that eternal happiness that you are seeking.

[Zacha341]

You think! But the obvious preferential treatment in that case, and others is set aside at the alter of partisan interests.

I think we are wrong as a country to tell a citizen to pay their debt but yet allow non citizens the same prospect debt free.We can find the funds for one but not the other?

[Richard]

It is kinda like pushing healthcare for the poor,they need heath care,unless they are refugees or illegal then they receive it free, including,preventive care.

From 2008 to 2016 3,118,887 deportations

The cost to the taxpayer is $8300 per deportation

92% of those deportations are felony based.

That did not even address the illegal aspect.

Number of new naturalized citizens in the same time frame 10.8 million.

Going back to the original topic,the wife has been given the opportunity to speak in front of a committee or is being used.

They are going to look at the same numbers and say 10 million managed to do things the legal way and you have been married for 15 years and here we are.

I am not sure where they keep coming up with prime examples to put before the public,it seems to be doing more harm then good.

186,000 illegal deportations not felony related so far and 5 have been showcased,you would think out of 186,000 it would increase the odds of finding a poster child for the cause.

Oath
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

^ that is posted for all of those on the podium saying they immigrated and support illegal immigration.

They swear an oath to support and defend the constitution and the laws of the United States Of America.

What is every Americans responsibility as a United States Citizen?

The exact same thing that we require of our new citizens,to support and defend the constitution and the laws of the United States of Amercia.

It does not say pick and choose..

[aj3647]

Such the dramatic one.

If you as an American citizen believes that your fellow Amercian comes second to anybody else then you really need to be thinking about where your loyalties are and move to that country.

You said you were in the military,if you were underfire I am thinking that you would turn and shoot your fellow amercian before the enemy.

I am thankful that we did not serve together because I would not want you to have my back,I will even go as far as offering to pay your flight to the country of choice,sense you do make it clear where your loyalties are.

Of course your options are limited because most countries do not allow illegal immigration and you would just sneak back across the border and get all the luxuries that Amercians do not get.

I do not know,maybe try Canada,you can always claim political asylum by saying the currant president upsets you and you need a safe space.

Nope, I'm fine right here. Thanks though.

[rex]

status as an illegal certainly had something to do with this.
Ive been thru the immigration process in the last year, sponsored my wife who was here legitimately on H1B doing postgrad research