Illitches announce another new development, behind Eddystone

[stinkytofu]

A Crain's reporter tweeted this photo https://twitter.com/kirkpinhoCDB/sta...71260998377472

Nothing but conceptual, but it puts a nice visual to the ideas

Wasn't there a claim that a homeland security requirement basically necessitated the demolition of the Park Avenue Hotel near LCA? If that's true - and I'd like to see proof - I see no way the building in right field could be built. If anything - after Vegas - that issue is now much more prominent.

[EGrant]

Homeland Security, room for a must-have loading dock, the building wasn't sound... there were many "reasons" why that building was imploded.

[Zads07]

https://twitter.com/DanaAfana/status/991740113087553536

6th parking garage coming to the District Detroit. This is why we do not trust Olympia, EMU Steve.

[emu steve]

https://twitter.com/DanaAfana/status/991740113087553536

6th parking garage coming to the District Detroit. This is why we do not trust Olympia, EMU Steve.

BTW, where will it be? Is this the one by Eddystone?

I thought we agreed for a city like Detroit, parking garages were a good thing. Other cities have mass transit or underground parking, but Detroit is the Motor City so it does things "it's way."

A good sized parking garage can hold as many vehicles as say 8 parking lots.

Eventually those parking lots will no longer be needed. And that is a good thing.

[dtowncitylover]

I thought we agreed for a city like Detroit, parking garages were a good thing. Other cities have mass transit or underground parking, but Detroit is the Motor City so it does things "it's way."

A good sized parking garage can hold as many vehicles as say 8 parking lots.

Eventually those parking lots will no longer be needed. And that is a good thing.

No. Parking garages are still parking lots, just stacked on each other.

And when is this eventually? If we ever pass regional transit? When?

[emu steve]

No. Parking garages are still parking lots, just stacked on each other.

And when is this eventually? If we ever pass regional transit? When?

I'll give folks here a clue:

Mass transit will NEVER be big in Detroit.

Based on my experience in various cities the only mass transit which is popular are modes like subways or Amtrak. And, Detroit doesn't have the downtown employment density to have a subway to move say 100 - 150K per day to / from downtown.

I assume this is because Detroit was the Motor City. Motor City means making automobiles. Automobiles aren't manufactured downtown. The plants were located all over including places like Dearborn [[Rouge Plant).

QLine is a nice short-haul mass transit for a few miles but will never do away with a lot of parking be in near the stadiums or downtown.

[dtowncitylover]

If mass transit is never big or even more invested in in metro Detroit then parking lots and parking decks will always be big downtown.

The only way to get rid of parking downtown is to build density, in both buildings and people, and in order to build density you need transit to move these people around. Cars move people around in low-density sprawl. Transit moves people around in high density cities.

So again, when will parking lots and decks never be needed if we keep the status quo?

[Zads07]

I'll give folks here a clue:

Mass transit will NEVER be big in Detroit.

Based on my experience in various cities the only mass transit which is popular are modes like subways or Amtrak. And, Detroit doesn't have the downtown employment density to have a subway to move say 100 - 150K per day to / from downtown.

I assume this is because Detroit was the Motor City. Motor City means making automobiles. Automobiles aren't manufactured downtown. The plants were located all over including places like Dearborn [[Rouge Plant).

QLine is a nice short-haul mass transit for a few miles but will never do away with a lot of parking be in near the stadiums or downtown.

And staying with the status quo, which Ilitch is doing will not help mass transit. But that's another thread, not this one.

Staying on topic here, Ilitch promised residential units, he backed out. But he had no problem building parking structures and repaving the lots he owns already, to prepare them for future development? I call shenanigans here.

[royce]

Years ago I heard about a parking deck called a Texas-Donut. It’s a parking deck that is behind a residential complex, where the complex surrounds the entire parking deck or surrounds three-sides of it. Atlanta has adopted this set up for many of its residential developments. I would love to see them built here in Detroit. Imagine having residential units face Grand River Avenue where there is now that huge surface parking lot across from DTE. The parking deck would encompass the parking spaces lost by building the residential units. The parking deck would serve both the residents and the public. A development like this takes forward thinking. I don’t think the Ilitches have elevated to that level of thinking. Maybe one day.

[hybridy]

Or employ robotic valet in an underground structure aka ‘the hudson’. Lol

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

A lot of people are making valid points about parking and transit downtown. I think emuSteve is right about Detroit never joining the "transit heavy" ranks of NYC, DC, etc. But there is still constructive transit development that could occur. Most Michiganders, including Detroiters, will keep and frequently use their cars. But: the more urban areas of SE Michigan can support more and better bus service; the "high activity corridors" like Woodward Ave, potentially Michigan or Jefferson, can benefit from a light rail project; and the various far flung places like the Airport, Ann Arbor, Pontiac, some suburbs and downtown/midtown Detroit could be linked by a successful BRT system. That dream is plausible and would coexist with our car-centric culture.

[Junjie]

Wasn't there a claim that a homeland security requirement basically necessitated the demolition of the Park Avenue Hotel near LCA? If that's true - and I'd like to see proof - I see no way the building in right field could be built. If anything - after Vegas - that issue is now much more prominent.

There was such a claim, but it was just a BS excuse from Olympia in order to justify demolishing a historic building. They think Detroiters are stupid and have no idea that Madison Square Garden and other urban arenas exist, surrounded on all sides by high rises. No basis in fact or even logic.

[emu steve]

A lot of people are making valid points about parking and transit downtown. I think emuSteve is right about Detroit never joining the "transit heavy" ranks of NYC, DC, etc. But there is still constructive transit development that could occur. Most Michiganders, including Detroiters, will keep and frequently use their cars. But: the more urban areas of SE Michigan can support more and better bus service; the "high activity corridors" like Woodward Ave, potentially Michigan or Jefferson, can benefit from a light rail project; and the various far flung places like the Airport, Ann Arbor, Pontiac, some suburbs and downtown/midtown Detroit could be linked by a successful BRT system. That dream is plausible and would coexist with our car-centric culture.

Thank you. Appreciated.

Weaving back to the discussion of parking [[and parking garages as a poster said parking garages are parking layered but still parking spaces) there are/were a few development options:

1). Let the concentration of commercial activity disperse to the suburbs at which point mass transit is a non issue. [[sounds like Phoenix) Mass transit works best where many, many folks are going to the same area.

2). Disperse, rather than concentrate, the sports facilities. Detroit opted to concentrate them.

3). To the degree there is concentration of commercial activity as well as sports and entertainment zone then EITHER highly popular mass transit or parking [[or even both) are required.

Hence, because of #3, Detroit will need more parking spaces per visitor [[who come to work or visit) than most any large urban city. Those cars Detroit is famous for coming into downtown/midtown can't be 'homeless' during the day.

The only question is how smart, attractive, functional, etc. those parking garages will be.

Best I can tell the Olympia parking garages are designed to combine parking, mixed usage, aesthetics, etc.

That's the best Detroit is going to do.

As Mikey indicates, Detroit will never be a NYC, D.C., etc. Anything else is simply pie-in-the-sky.

Anyone thinking that Detroit can be a northeastern city with excellent mass transit doesn't appreciate the developmental history of these cities.

How old is the NYC subway system? Boston? D.C. [[answer: 42 years).

How old is Detroit's: N/A.

[313rd]

I ask this because wouldn’t they have studied or done a feasibility study on the probability that residential would work near the arena. All of the proposed residential on Henry never looked plausible to me. The frontage of the garage at 111 Henry seems too short depth-wise to have residential. The planned residential on Henry across the street from 111 Henry [[the one with just a first floor base) doesn’t appear that it would have had access to the garage that’s currently behind it.

I've seen the construction drawings for this residential build out for 111 Henry in the Garage. There is/was plenty of room for the build out of these units. I'm surprised at this turning to office in lieu of residential.

I've also seen the Arena Lofts [[current one floor of steel/concrete) which are rather small. This I didn't see as the right place for residential. Too close, overhanging the Plaza Area.

[Jakewayj]

In regards to the mass transit discussion I think we have to understand that never is a long time. Who knows what the landscape will be for cars in 20 years. We have already seen this push to go to autonomous vehicle craze. I think that what we need to understand is there is a place for both mass transit and cars to exist and a reason to use them both. I will give one example from my experience with mass transit here in Las Vegas. I sold my car and started riding my bike about a year and a half ago as my main source of transportation. One day I decided to experiment with mass transit to get to a state park on the outskirts of the valley. So I strapped my bike on the front of the bus and left the transit center on an express route that took me to another transit center near the park I was visiting.

While on the bus I saw flyers for Las Vegas Golden Knight game express route services. Now imagine if all those people complaining about parking for Pistons and Wings games could all hop on a bus from a regional transit center in Royal Oak or Ferndale or from outskirts of the city get down to the game cheaply, efficiently and most importantly safely.

This is just one small example, but one that I think highlights one benefit to regional transit. I also think the development trend in the city seems to be towards density and walkability and I think that will eventually push more demand for better mass transit in the city. Time will tell.

[emu steve]

Jakewayj:

I agree with you and here in D.C. we do similar, not for sporting events but for regular commuting [[work).

One can live 35 miles from D.C. and take a bus with the padded seats, restrooms, etc. etc. to various dropoff points in D.C.

We have MARC and VRE which provide regular rail service to / from D.C.

Could S.E. Michigan run a rail line near 75 from Oakland County to downtown Detroit?

Or run the buses I described in HOV lane along 75 [[does 75 have HOV lanes?).

As far as the sports example, could transit companies run buses from Oakland County, Dearborn, downriver, etc. to and from Ford Field for a Lions' game?

[CrashDummy]

Years ago I heard about a parking deck called a Texas-Donut. It’s a parking deck that is behind a residential complex, where the complex surrounds the entire parking deck or surrounds three-sides of it. Atlanta has adopted this set up for many of its residential developments. I would love to see them built here in Detroit. Imagine having residential units face Grand River Avenue where there is now that huge surface parking lot across from DTE. The parking deck would encompass the parking spaces lost by building the residential units. The parking deck would serve both the residents and the public. A development like this takes forward thinking. I don’t think the Ilitches have elevated to that level of thinking. Maybe one day.

I thought that was the intention of the parking garage that is the original subject of this thread. It's hard to see from the rendering that was shown in the article, but from overhead diagrams it appears that it is wrapped on the Sproat, Park, and Temple sides by residential/office units. Odd that this building has hardly been mentioned in any announcements, though.

[emu steve]

Here is an example of a Texas-Doughnut.

http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2013...tice-part.html

[Zads07]

It's officially been one year to the date since Olympia announced they would redevelop the Eddystone, Hotel Fort Wayne, Alhambra Apartments and put up new residential, which has since changed to office space.

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/5/26...oit-renovation

Is there any updates on any of these properties at the minimum getting started?

[SammyS]

It's officially been one year to the date since Olympia announced they would redevelop the Eddystone, Hotel Fort Wayne, Alhambra Apartments and put up new residential, which has since changed to office space.

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/5/26...oit-renovation

Is there any updates on any of these properties at the minimum getting started?

I'm will ya on this. A year later and absolutely zero news and worst still, zero progress. It's particularly embarrassing for me when I make mention of Detroit's comeback on other international forums and have nothing further to add.

In the meantime, MLIVE put together a nice summary of current developments in and around downtown

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...elopments.html

[401don]

It's officially been one year to the date since Olympia announced they would redevelop the Eddystone, Hotel Fort Wayne, Alhambra Apartments and put up new residential, which has since changed to office space.

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/5/26...oit-renovation

Is there any updates on any of these properties at the minimum getting started?

I'm sure there's a very good reason - lack of skilled trades, scheduling, market conditions, etc. We should ask Steve. Oh, never mind.

[canuck]

I'm sure there's a very good reason - lack of skilled trades, scheduling, market conditions, etc. We should ask Steve. Oh, never mind.

If he desists, it may be that he's D.C.'sed.

[CrashDummy]

I'm will ya on this. A year later and absolutely zero news and worst still, zero progress. It's particularly embarrassing for me when I make mention of Detroit's comeback on other international forums and have nothing further to add.

In the meantime, MLIVE put together a nice summary of current developments in and around downtown

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...elopments.html

That's a great list that MLive put together. Very inclusive of projects in various stages of development, not just pipe dream ideas thrown out as in some years past. The one I probably would not include at this point is the fail jail site. With the soccer stadium off the table, I would say this development is not even at the conceptual stage, yet.

As far as the one year passing without visible progress, I wouldn't worry too much about it now. It's pretty much status quo for most projects. SoMa, Cass & York, West Elm Hotel to name a few. Free Press building shows little exterior progress a year and a half after concept. Among new developments in progress, The Boulevard [[Third & Grand) is a year and a half behind schedule to open. Columbia Street is twenty years after announcement and still under construction. A year from now, if there is no progress, I would start to worry. For these mid sized projects, about three years from start to finish seems to be pretty standard.

[Gistok]

Columbia Street is twenty years after announcement and still under construction. A year from now, if there is no progress, I would start to worry.

Remember.... 'Festoon Lighting' cannot be rushed!

[Zads07]

We have an update, rather lack of an update on the Eddystone project, plus much, much more that Olympia hasn't done!

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ystone-project

Not only will they miss the deadline for the Eddystone, but the developer and Jackson are out on the projects.