Now That We're Going to Have an Open Seat...Conyers Resigns

**CassTechGrad** · November-30-17, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

So said the NAZI SS officers about what happened to all the Jewish people, how things where going on the Russian Front, and about Hitler being being insane...

Oh, and you forgot this: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.!!!!!!!!

**Zacha341** · November-30-17, 12:14 PM

John Conyers hospitalized for stress-related illness...

http://www.wxyz.com/news/john-conyer...kesperson-says

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politi...zed/index.html

**iheartthed** · November-30-17, 12:53 PM

I thought this thread was jumping the gun, but Democratic leadership is calling for him to resign. He's probably done.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politi...ign/index.html

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · November-30-17, 02:41 PM

He is [[and ought to be) toast. In today's climate, anyone not calling for his head risks their own. He couldn't stay on at this point if he wanted to: there would be an effort to censure and then expel him. The least-bad scenario for Conyers is to resign and hide away for his [[probably few) remaining days. If he fails to resign shortly he will be publicly humiliated in hearings lasting all through next election year. If he had decency [[and I am not accusing him of that), he would publicly confess, apologize, pay back any taxpayer money spent in settlements, and resign. We'll see if he decides to demonstrate a little class and courage. He has no future as an effective officer of the government.

**Colombian Dan** · November-30-17, 02:46 PM

It was a "youthful indiscretion"..

**EastsideAl** · November-30-17, 02:46 PM

After this morning's tough interview of his former deputy chief of staff Marion Brown on NBC, and after losing the support of Minority Leader Pelosi and the highest ranked African-American Democrat in the House, Jim Clyburn, I think Conyers is almost certainly done.

Most of the House leadership has called on him to resign, and he's a troubled and unwell 88 year old man in the hospital. Even if he runs again next year and gets reelected [[no longer the slam dunk it seemed a few days ago) he will have been stripped of all of his seniority and power and will just be a diminished and pitiful old man serving out his last years in disgrace.

**iheartthed** · November-30-17, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

He is [[and ought to be) toast. In today's climate, anyone not calling for his head risks their own. He couldn't stay on at this point if he wanted to: there would be an effort to censure and then expel him. The least-bad scenario for Conyers is to resign and hide away for his [[probably few) remaining days. If he fails to resign shortly he will be publicly humiliated in hearings lasting all through next election year. If he had decency [[and I am not accusing him of that), he would publicly confess, apologize, pay back any taxpayer money spent in settlements, and resign. We'll see if he decides to demonstrate a little class and courage. He has no future as an effective officer of the government.

I don't think that will happen. A GOP controlled Congress pushing ethics investigations against Congress while the sitting GOP president has so many issues would be a level of hypocrisy that even Republicans couldn't surmount.

But he should resign.

**Zacha341** · December-01-17, 06:41 AM

Nor can Pelosi make him step down - her change of direction is more about politics [[and optics - withstanding his guilt or not).

Locally some dems are distancing themselves from Conyers as well. Others are circling-the-wagons of defense around him, reflexively.

People are reading the tea leaves on this differently depending on what they want to steep.

One way for him to bow out now is for health reasons.

Damage control for everyone [[an attempt anyway)!

**iheartthed** · December-01-17, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Nor can Pelosi make him step down - her change of direction is more about politics [[and optics - withstanding his guilt or not).

Locally some dems are distancing themselves from Conyers as well. Others are circling-the-wagons of defense around him, reflexively.

People are reading the tea leaves on this differently depending on what they want to steep.

One way for him to bow out now is for health reasons.

Damage control for everyone [[an attempt anyway)!

Yes, it's about politics. They are politicians lol.

James Clyburn has also said he should resign, so it's likely that the Congressional Black Caucus supports it as well. Pelosi would not have asked him to resign without the support of the CBC.

**Zacha341** · December-01-17, 11:20 AM

Ah-hah! That figures -- she needed someone on her side as plenty of local Detroit dems that wanted to put her out in the woodshed for her comments.

Looks like Clyburn [[CBC) weighed in on Conyers stepping down within the last 24 hours.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Pelosi would not have asked him to resign without the support of the CBC.

**Danny** · December-03-17, 07:36 AM

It's time to take John Conyers street sign off from Washignton Bvld.

**Zacha341** · December-03-17, 07:41 AM

The sign can stay I suppose but he should just step down. He can cite health reasons at this point. He is nearing 90.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · December-04-17, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

It's time to take John Conyers street sign off from Washignton Bvld.

I think there should be a law that NOTHING can be named after a living politician. Even after death, there should be a 10 year wait. Perspective should emerge so that immediate political or emotional considerations aren't calling for naming everything after recently deceased pols.

**aj3647** · December-04-17, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

Oh, and you forgot this: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.!!!!!!!!

"Vote for me and I'll repeal Obamacare on Day One!"
"Vote for me and I'll bring back coal jobs!"
"I'll build a big beautiful wall and Mexico will pay for it! Vote for me!"
"Vote for me and I'll defeat ISIS within 30 days!"

**Zacha341** · December-04-17, 11:24 AM

^^^ 'Politician[[s)' making promises. Promises made to be broken like pie crusts!

**aj3647** · December-04-17, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

An
And that's as it should be.

Too often, these indiscretions are being judged in the media by today's standards.

Conyers using taxpayer dollars to settle a sexual harassment claim against him happened in 2015. So which time period's standards for socially-acceptable behavior should we judge him by if not "today's" standards? It happened two years ago, not twenty, nor 50, nor two centuries ago. Call me crazy, but I think he's being judged by the appropriate standards.

Also, I'm pretty sure "molesting kids" wasn't cool in the early 80's either, so there goes Roy Moore's "it was a different time" defense. But then again, it is Alabama, so maybe feeling up some 14-year olds wasn't against social norms there at the time [[or today, it would seem).

And yes, if anything is and should be a litmus test, it's child molestation. I'm more than content to judge someone solely based on that one action if they commit it, regardless of whatever else they may have done in life. I don't care if you cured cancer and walked on the moon, you molest ONE kid, you're a child molester. End of story.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-04-17, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Conyers using taxpayer dollars to settle a sexual harassment claim against him happened in 2015. So which time period's standards for socially-acceptable behavior should we judge him by if not "today's" standards? It happened two years ago, not twenty, nor 50, nor two centuries ago. Call me crazy, but I think he's being judged by the appropriate standards.

Also, I'm pretty sure "molesting kids" wasn't cool in the early 80's either, so there goes Roy Moore's "it was a different time" defense. But then again, it is Alabama, so maybe feeling up some 14-year olds wasn't against social norms there at the time [[or today, it would seem).

And yes, if anything is and should be a litmus test, it's child molestation. I'm more than content to judge someone solely based on that one action if they commit it, regardless of whatever else they may have done in life. I don't care if you cured cancer and walked on the moon, you molest ONE kid, you're a child molester. End of story.

I agree that child molestation is one of, if not the worst crimes.

If Moore is guilty, I'm OK with heavy penalties. And Franken's crime is far less serious.

Nothing in life, however, is ever so black and white. Many communities ban sex with minors, but there are nuances, such as a just-turned 18 having sex with a one-day short of 18 partner.

And time and place do matter. In Iran, marriage age is 13 for girls -- unless the enlightened father agrees to earlier. Is that molestation? Sure, by our standards. But not by theirs. We think wearing the hijab is a fine expression of self expression not oppression. Should we think the same about 13 y.o. brides?

Nothing is ever 'end of story'. Child molestation in general is ever so close.

**aj3647** · December-05-17, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Nothing in life, however, is ever so black and white. Many communities ban sex with minors, but there are nuances, such as a just-turned 18 having sex with a one-day short of 18 partner.

32 year old man, 14 year old girl. They weren't days apart in age, nor a few years, he was MORE THAN TWICE HER AGE. What's NOT black and white about that in your mind? None of those nuances apply here. Again, 32-year old man, 14 year old girl. What's so nuanced about that?

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

And time and place do matter. In Iran, marriage age is 13 for girls -- unless the enlightened father agrees to earlier. Is that molestation? Sure, by our standards. But not by theirs. We think wearing the hijab is a fine expression of self expression not oppression. Should we think the same about 13 y.o. brides?

Nothing is ever 'end of story'. Child molestation in general is ever so close.

What the hell does the age of consent in Iran have to do with anything we are talking about here? How is that a defense of a 32 year old assistant district attorney [[allegedly) pursuing and molesting a 14-year old girl in the United States of America?

Jesus man, you are actually making excuses for molesting kids.

**emu steve** · December-05-17, 11:16 AM

The title of this thread has been fulfilled. There is now a vacant seat.

**Zacha341** · December-05-17, 11:52 AM

^^^Thank goodness-the galloping train of 'justification' was coming off the rails!

John Conyers has retired from congress!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ent/922417001/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...gan/904737001/

**aj3647** · December-05-17, 12:05 PM

After watching the rally of his defenders, I'm left wondering why so many people think that guys like Conyers who did great things as part of the Civil Rights movement must also somehow be Saints who are above reproach and free of sin. Are they that naïve? Even Dr. MLK Jr. cheated on wife regularly, doesn't mean he didn't do great things, just that he was flawed like every other fallible human being.

I just don't see how Conyers being a Civil Rights icon makes him immune from sexually harassing women. Those are mutually exclusive things, they are not connected. And being a member of a marginalized minority group does NOT prohibit Conyers from indulging in male privilege when it comes to things like harassing women.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-05-17, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

After watching the rally of his defenders, I'm left wondering why so many people think that guys like Conyers who did great things as part of the Civil Rights movement must also somehow be Saints who are above reproach and free of sin. Are they that naïve? Even Dr. MLK Jr. cheated on wife regularly, doesn't mean he didn't do great things, just that he was flawed like every other fallible human being.

I just don't see how Conyers being a Civil Rights icon makes him immune from sexually harassing women. Those are mutually exclusive things, they are not connected. And being a member of a marginalized minority group does NOT prohibit Conyers from indulging in male privilege when it comes to things like harassing women.

"He may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he's our son-of-a-bitch."

In politics, and in life one has to decide which battles to fight. Is battle #1 sexual harassment? Is battle #1 fighting for racial civil rights? To get things done, you build alliances. This means ignoring

Moore bad. Conyers good.

Its no different with Trump. Evangelicals despise his actions. But they'll take this extremely flawed guy who at least shares some values over someone who would be more concerned about who bakes a cake for whom.

On that subject, what I think is missing from this debate is that Mr. Phillips is not selling a commodity. Hotel rooms, restaurants, movie theatres, buying homes. All commodities. Getting a custom cake for your event? Not a commodity, and it requires a collaboration between the provider and the client that is best when intimate.

But back to our local guy, I don't mind his flaws. We have laws to deal with transgressions. Until the voters toss him out, or he's convicted -- carry on.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · December-05-17, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

John Conyers has retired from the senate!

I didn't even remember him getting elected to the Senate!

But seriously, it is a good thing that he is going. I do think it is the height of ego for someone leaving in scandal and disgrace [[and, rest assured, he is leaving in scandal and disgrace) to endorse anyone to replace him, let alone his son.

**EastsideAl** · December-05-17, 12:41 PM

Now the mad scramble that's been going on behind the scene will come to into the open. I don't think that the congressman's wannabe playboy 27 year old son who has never held a public office is any sort of slam dunk. There are a number of potential contestants out there, very much including the congressman's grand-nephew, and sitting state senator, Ian Conyers.

**aj3647** · December-06-17, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

But seriously, it is a good thing that he is going. I do think it is the height of ego for someone leaving in scandal and disgrace [[and, rest assured, he is leaving in scandal and disgrace) to endorse anyone to replace him, let alone his son.

This is what happens when you hold on to power as long as you can simply for the sake of holding on, instead of bowing out gracefully when you're still on top. There's no doubt that at 88, age has slowed Conyers significantly and made him increasingly ineffective in his powerful role on the Judiciary Committee.

While part of this is the Democrats wanting to look tough on sexual harassment, another part is simply that Pelosi and the rest of the leadership wanted to shuffle Mr. Magoo out the door so they can bring in young blood that is motivated and energized.