Texas mass church shooting leaves 26 dead...

[Zacha341]

Deaths ranging in age from 5 to 72. Shooter Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...pens-fire.html

[jcole]

Legally purchased semi-auto in the hands of a court-marshalled wife beater.

[Jimaz]

The Onion has a tradition of republishing this headline every time an event like this happens.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[aj3647]

Legally purchased semi-auto in the hands of a court-marshalled wife beater.

Q: Why was a man with a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force for beating his wife and kids allowed to legally purchase and possess an AR-15 rifle?

A: Because 'MURICA! Ain't no one takin' away my freedom penis just because I like to beat my wife and kids, this is AMERICA!

[jcole]

Q: Why was a man with a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force for beating his wife and kids allowed to legally purchase and possess an AR-15 rifle?

A: Because 'MURICA! Ain't no one takin' away my freedom penis just because I like to beat my wife and kids, this is AMERICA!

And he lied on the background check; said he lived in Colorado Springs and had no disqualifying issues. Real fine check by that gun shop owner. Naw, we don't need to revamp ANYTHING

[aj3647]

And he lied on the background check; said he lived in Colorado Springs and had no disqualifying issues. Real fine check by that gun shop owner. Naw, we don't need to revamp ANYTHING

Sadly, a Bad Conduct Discharge does not disqualify someone from legally purchasing a firearm. Only a dishonorable discharge will do that. A DD is given for the military equivalent of a felony offense, a BCD is typically given for those service members who committed crimes that are equivalent to a civilian misdemeanor charge.

Now under the Lautenberg Amendment, even misdemeanor domestic violence offenses make one ineligible to purchase a firearm, however because this guy was in the military and given a BCD in a military court-martial instead of a domestic violence conviction in a civilian court, it is extremely likely that a NICS background check would not have shown him to be an ineligible buyer since I do not believe military BCDs are communicated to the NICS database. So, this would seem to be a gaping loophole in the background check system.

Another solution here would be to amend the law to make a Bad Conduct Discharge [[regardless of offense) a disqualifying position for gun ownership and for those military records to be sent to the NICS database.

I would also point out that the federal law prohibiting wife-beaters from buying guns was militantly opposed by a certain political party and a certain well-funded special interest group. I'll give you one guess as to who they were, and you'll only need one guess.

But the point remains, there is no reason why this psycho should have been able to legally purchase a firearm. So instead of "thoughts and prayers", how about we actually enact policy to fix the system so guys like him can't buy weapons of mass destruction anymore? But just like with bump stocks, don't expect the NRA-owned Republican Congress to do anything about this. So "thoughts and prayers" it is, until the next unhinged dude goes postal with a legally-purchased AR-15.

[jcole]

He also lied about his address. That could have been easily checked

[Richard]

'He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism'

I have not found printed where the date is when he actually purchased the weapon,discharge was in 2014 if he owned it before then it would not have shown up on the back ground check.

I guess I could speculate and figure every possible seniaro as fact.

I do find it interesting that there is a difference in what happens every week in some inner cities on a monthly basis and what happened Sunday.

In the pictures the weapon is just sitting there,it does not appear to have ill intent or little legs,just as a truck sitting in the rental parking lot,but it is easy to look at the picture and point a finger and say make that go away and problem solved.

[Lowell]

So sad. This tragedy brought to mind the Bath, MI school bombing of 1927 that took over forty lives from a tiny town of 3-400, which is the size of Sutherland Springs, TX. One out of ten or less.

It prompted me to 'drive around' Sutherland Springs via Google street view. It is a very humble town with many abandoned houses and a large percentage living in pre-manufactured homes. Why this person would single out such a struggling community boggles the mind.

[Honky Tonk]

Kudos to Stephen Willeford for taking this POS out.

[aj3647]

Why this person would single out such a struggling community boggles the mind.

The shooter's mother-in-law lives there and attended that church. Latest reports are that the shooter had texted his mother-in-law that morning and threatened to kill her. So it sounds like a family dispute that spiraled into mass murder.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

[oladub]

"Military members dishonorably discharged cannot legally purchase a gun, but Kelley's bad-conduct discharge falls just short of that mark. [[as aj pointed out)
It's unclear if Kelley's assault charges constituted domestic violence, but such a conviction could have also legally disqualified him from gun ownership.
But even if the assault charges didn't technically go down as domestic violence, assault alone can be treated as a felony, which should preclude gun ownership. And even if the charges didn't go down as felonies, the twin charges carried a maximum sentence of over a year in prison, and therefore should preclude gun ownership."

So maybe if we tweak our gun laws to make them stronger, crazy people won't be able to lie or otherwise get their hands on one of the 300M guns already sold? Or the authorities could go door to door collecting guns to see how that would work out. While we are waiting for deliverance, two locals gave chase and neutralized Devin Kelley before he killed more people.

[Maof]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbJ8Jenl...&taken-by=time

"we have a lot of mental health problems in our country" - Did he not overturn the mental health law [[when purchasing guns) Obama had in place?

"but this isn't a guns situation" - What?!

[aj3647]

So maybe if we tweak our gun laws to make them stronger, crazy people won't be able to lie or otherwise get their hands on one of the 300M guns already sold?

Doesn't matter if he lied or not, if he had a domestic violence conviction in the NICS system, he would have been denied the purchase. So yes, in this case, improving the NICS reporting system to include those who were convicted of domestic violence in military courts would be the prudent and appropriate thing to do. Give me one good reason why we should not do this.

Or the authorities could go door to door collecting guns to see how that would work out.

Enough with the straw man argument. Why is it any time someone suggests COMMON SENSE gun control reform, like preventing wife beaters who were in the military from legally buying guns, you all jump to the "ban all guns" hyperbole? Yup, it's a slippery slope for sure. First we keep violent wife-beating psychopaths from buying guns, and the next day the cops are going door-to-door to seize all guns.

[Jimaz]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbJ8Jenl...&taken-by=time

"we have a lot of mental health problems in our country" - Did he not overturn the mental health law [[when purchasing guns) Obama had in place?

"but this isn't a guns situation" - What?!

Thanks for the link.

"mental health problem at the highest level."

— Donald Trump

His Freudian slip is showing.

[aj3647]

The shooter's wife's grandmother was one of those killed at the Church.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

Definitely looks now like he was targeting his wife's family, who were members of that church.

[jcole]

The shooter's wife's grandmother was one of those killed at the Church.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

Definitely looks now like he was targeting his wife's family, who were members of that church.

Couldn't he have just gone to their house?

[Richard]

The shooter's mother-in-law lives there and attended that church. Latest reports are that the shooter had texted his mother-in-law that morning and threatened to kill her. So it sounds like a family dispute that spiraled into mass murder.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

The first reports were that he was a Sunday school teacher there but then changed that it was his x wife that was a teacher.

Speculation would make it appear that it was demostic related and the others did not matter because they were christians.

I agree with HT kudos to the neighbors taking action,we do not know if he was intent on continued rampage elsewhere,I wish we could see more of that.

Guns and foreign terrorist aside both the Las Vegas shooter and this guy were reportedly suffering from depression.

Some say the mental health issue is a non starter which would kinda point as the shooters being in a perfect state of mind or not having issues.

Between this and homelessness the mental health aspect seems to play a part.

[Richard]

Q: Why was a man with a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force for beating his wife and kids allowed to legally purchase and possess an AR-15 rifle?

A: Because 'MURICA! Ain't no one takin' away my freedom penis just because I like to beat my wife and kids, this is AMERICA!

You posted this first then further down the thread you answered your own statement as to the difference between a BCD and a DD,are you okay?

[jcole]

'He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism'

I have not found printed where the date is when he actually purchased the weapon,discharge was in 2014 if he owned it before then it would not have shown up on the back ground check...

Kelley bought a Ruger AR-556 rifle, used in the attack on the church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, in April of last year from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio, a law-enforcement official told CNN.

Also

We also now know that Kelley had applied for and was denied a Texas concealed handgun permit. This was likely due to the circumstances surrounding his discharge from the Air Force.

A former airman with the US Air Force, Kelley, received a “bad conduct” discharge from the military after charges of assault against his spouse and child led him to be court-martialed.

[Richard]

Also[/FONT][/COLOR]

The Air Force failed to enter the information into the system is why it was missed in NCIS the state picked up on the BCD when he applied for a armed security guard permit at the state level.

Prision over 1 year felony kicks in but the military and civilian views felonies differently and it is not actually a felony in military sense,it is a violation of the UCMJ a set of rules and penalties are dispersed as such.

The military cannot put it in as a felony because they do not view it as such,they put it in as an instance of demostic violence.

So state viewed it as a case of demostic violence where the fed level if it was not entered then it would have been possible to pass the check.

It is like a server sitting in a building as a clearinghouse,if somebody down the line does not send the information then it does not know or reflect on a background check.

[jcole]

The Air Force failed to enter the information into the system is why it was missed in NCIS the state picked up on the BCD when he applied for a armed security guard permit at the state level.

Prision over 1 year felony kicks in but the military and civilian views felonies differently and it is not actually a felony in military sense,it is a violation of the UCMJ a set of rules and penalties are dispersed as such.

The military cannot put it in as a felony because they do not view it as such,they put it in as an instance of demostic violence.

So state viewed it as a case of demostic violence where the fed level if it was not entered then it would have been possible to pass the check.

It is like a server sitting in a building as a clearinghouse,if somebody down the line does not send the information then it does not know or reflect on a background check.

You said

I have not found printed where the date is when he actually purchased the weapon,discharge was in 2014 if he owned it before then it would not have shown up on the back ground check...

I answered that for you. He bought the Ruger in April of 2016
Also, it's NICS, not the TV show with Gibbs and Abby

[Richard]

Well,thank you for answering that.

You did comprehend what I posted,yes?

[Johnnny5]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbJ8Jenl...&taken-by=time

"we have a lot of mental health problems in our country" - Did he not overturn the mental health law [[when purchasing guns) Obama had in place?

The change that you are referring to specifically dealt with those on social security and those receiving VA benefits. Under Obama it was arbitrarily decided that those deemed incapable of handling their own financial affairs should also be restricted from owning a firearm. It was an immense and illegal attempt to disarm Americans without due process and had not yet gone into effect. Trump rightfully chose to repeal it, but it would have undoubtedly been ruled unconstitutional either way.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...lumn/71964766/



http://www.guns.com/2017/03/01/trump...urity-gun-ban/

[oladub]

Doesn't matter if he lied or not, if he had a domestic violence conviction in the NICS system, he would have been denied the purchase. So yes, in this case, improving the NICS reporting system to include those who were convicted of domestic violence in military courts would be the prudent and appropriate thing to do. Give me one good reason why we should not do this.

Enough with the straw man argument. Why is it any time someone suggests COMMON SENSE gun control reform, like preventing wife beaters who were in the military from legally buying guns, you all jump to the "ban all guns" hyperbole? Yup, it's a slippery slope for sure. First we keep violent wife-beating psychopaths from buying guns, and the next day the cops are going door-to-door to seize all guns.

I already gave one good reason tweaking the law won't make much difference. There are 300M guns in this country. It is a fantasy to believe that tweaking the law will, for instance, stop crazies from being crazy or residents of Washington, D.C. where there are strict gun laws and a gun homicide rate higher than any state from not obtaining and misusing guns. Mental health intervention might do more good. Even if, in some cases, getting a gun by lying or not lying were made more difficult, it would only raise the black market price of illegal sales. The difference in the number of people who had guns would be the difference in the black market price. That probably wouldn't affect too many purchasers. When all else fails, one could rent a Lowe's truck. I'm not as much of a believer as you. Thank goodness two guys with a truck and gun neutralized Devin Kelly.

The ban all guns hyperbole became real to many Australians and Europeans. Some of us think history sometimes repeats itself. When Katrina devastated New Orleans, the federal government showed its hand and did go door to door collecting guns. As tweaks are shown not to work, the alternative becomes going door to door; perhaps paying for those guns. Criminals and crazies still won't cooperate.

Maybe you know more than the Air Force but the NY Times reports that "The Air Force said the conviction should have barred Mr. Kelley from owning any guns. " Devin Kelley pled guilty to intentionally fracturing his son's skull.