Vacant Ren Cen Retail Space

[401don]

Now that office vacancy rates have tightened downtown I wonder why GM hasn't converted some its unused retail space to offices. So much of the space has been boarded up for so long it's easy to forget how much space is going unused. Add in the Wintergarden and even Beaubien Place and there should be opportunities. GM could use the space themselves and lease current GM space to outside companies or lease as shared space such as WeWork or develop a tech startup hub for auto related companies. Thoughts?

[masterblaster]

-Redesign Hart Plaza

-Add a residential tower at the site of the Ford Auditorium

-Add another residential tower on those parking lots east of the Renaissance Center

RESULT:

-Increased demand in retail at Ren Cen

-Maybe consider re-opening the 4-screen movie theater

[southen]

Ford Auditorium should be integrated into a redesigned Hart Plaza. We don't need a tower there, we need a more inviting park/green space that will be utilized outside of events and be a draw for those visiting downtown.

[Bham1982]

i suppose you could do this, but it would make the RenCen much less appealing for non-employees, and would probably harm existing restaurants and services. The Wintergarden might as well be locked down on weekends.

Also, you wouldn't gain that much office space. I doubt the RenCen has more than 150,000 square feet of retail, and they would be weird, noncontinuous office spaces.

[Zads07]

I think that would be a smart option by GM, to rid of some of the retail spaces there and convert to offices. We see ground floor retail in buildings in the downtown core, but not inside structures anymore.

[Pat001]

It’s been years since I was last inside the Ren Cen. Every time I went there I got lost. The place is like a maze in a corn field.

I was at the Ren Cen several years ago for a client meeting that ran late into the evening. By the time the meeting ended the place was empty. I walked out of an exit door thinking it was a stairway to the parking lot. Instead of a stairway I was out on a balcony. Unfortunately, the door locked behind me and I was trapped on the balcony - in the dark - in the freezing cold. There was no one around. After about an hour, I spotted a guard inside. I pounded on the glass with my car keys and got his attention. He opened the door and let me in. If not for that guard, I probably would have been stuck out there all night in 30-degree weather. I never went back to the Ren Cen.

[401don]

i suppose you could do this, but it would make the RenCen much less appealing for non-employees, and would probably harm existing restaurants and services. The Wintergarden might as well be locked down on weekends.

Also, you wouldn't gain that much office space. I doubt the RenCen has more than 150,000 square feet of retail, and they would be weird, noncontinuous office spaces.

According to WiKi the towers alone have 660,000 sq. ft. of retail. GM is using some of the space for non-retail now but I still think there is a lot available. I agree it would be noncontinuous which is why I thought it made sense for GM to use themselves, since they would have unique needs for smaller numbers of employees and could lease their own contiguous space out. They certainly need to come up with some use for the Wintergarden's upper floors. It's embarrassing how empty it is when so many visitors walk through it to the riverfront.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

One of the issues involved with converting retail space into office space [[I have no idea if this applies in any way here) is that offices do not attract comparable foot traffic to what other retailers do [[at least in theory), and therefor it hurts the existing retailers, or potentially drives down rent.

I think the ultimate problem with RenCen's retail is that it is geared mostly to workers in the complex; there is little reason for anyone else to go there. And, there is far more retail space there than the workers need. I am not sure how, but I think they should reposition the retail as a sort of "hub" for visiting Detroit and the riverfront. As the area east of RenCen gets further development [[those acres of surface parking will be anything but parking 10 years from today), the foot traffic in and around RenCen will increase dramatically. I hope they are able to figure out how to tap into that.

I don't think the movie theater would ever really work there. Especially since Detroit is likely to get 1 or 2 modern megaplexes in the next few years. A few unique retailers would really help, but I think most major retailers seeking to break into the Detroit market would opt for Woodward or somewhere with more spending foot traffic.

[casscorridor]

The place is too confusing to navigate. It's also alienating from the Jefferson Ave street level. There's the tunnel to Canada blocking pedestrian access, and a giant circular driveway. Then you're just in the GM lobby. It doesn't have a sense like you're in a retail space.

The movie theater could easily be converted into an art house cinema and be successful. It doesn't really matter where it is, as it would be a destination.

[Zacha341]

Wow! Finding a bath room is rather daunting too. I've only been to meetings there over the last 10 years. Nothing else would draw me otherwise as the layout is difficult at best and downright insane per your experience.

Considering for example, modern airports where attention is paid even down to surfaces you walk upon [[from hard to carpeted to indicate walking vs. seating areas, specific signage) you'd think the ren cen would get a clue.

I cannot see it as shopping destination personally.

Unfortunately, the door locked behind me and I was trapped on the balcony - in the dark - in the freezing cold. There was no one around. After about an hour, I spotted a guard inside. I pounded on the glass with my car keys and got his attention. He opened the door and let me in. If not for that guard, I probably would have been stuck out there all night in 30-degree weather. I never went back to the Ren Cen.

[mtburb]

Wow! Finding a bath room is rather daunting too. I've only been to meetings there over the last 10 years. Nothing else would draw me otherwise as the layout is difficult at best and downright insane per your experience.

Yeah, daunting it is, while I was there a while ago I was sent around in almost circles.

[stasu1213]

GM can't even finish the renovations to their showcase of cars in a timely manner. Now the completion had been pushed to next spring. GMs retail only cater to its workers. They have a missed opportunity when it comes attracting tourism which tourists often visit the RenCen on the weekend only to find everything is closed. More retail were supposed to be inside the Wintergarden but poor management over the years had shut them out. Starbucks should had relocated inside the Winter Gardens instead of one the 3rd level next to the post office. This goes to show what poor management the RenCen has

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Does anyone here know if GM itself leases out its retail spaces or if they employ a retail leasing company? There are firms that specialize in urban retail management. RenCen's retail does not appear to have ever had a real concise campaign to bring in retailers that attract the non-office workers.

CassCorridor, I think you are entirely correct that a marquee independent cinema, like Landmark, would thrive there, and pull in a lot of evening traffic. Only trouble is that nowadays I think such a cinema would themselves choose a different location in a neighborhood like midtown or corktown, rather than seek space in RenCen.

I doubt sincerely that RenCen has anything approaching 660,000 feet of retail. That is the size of Somerset Collection south. It doesn't seem like it could possibly be that large, unless perhaps you are just counting ever square foot that isn't literally office space [[there is a ton of "open space" thoughout the complex).

[archfan]

It looks like they use CBRE for leasing and management. The RenCen website is co-branded with CBRE, and all of the contacts for leasing seem to work for CBRE.

Hines says: "Each of the five towers rests atop a five-story podium structure containing 165,000 square feet of retail space." Four towers times 165K = 660K. I think that's more theoretical than anything that was ever built out.

[Gistok]

"Each of the five towers rests atop a [[five-story podium structure containing 165,000 square feet of retail space)."

This is the way you need to read this....

And the truth is that only 4 of the 5 towers has the 5 story podium... the central hotel tower is competely surrounded by an 8 story atrium.

[eastland]

The lack of retail could be by design. GM may only want convenience retail to serve their employees and tenants and not the general public.

[Pat001]

I cannot see it as shopping destination personally.

Dozens of retail shops & restaurants have opened and gone bust in the Ren Cen over the years. It was an island fortress when it opened and it still is.

[Jason]

How much they want to fix it depends on how much money they want to spend. And I doubt the improvements would be worth the investment.

I agree with the idea of building more to the west and east of the Ren Cen, making a little bit of Hong Kong in Detroit. Developments to the east of the Ren Cen are most likely.

I think there's potential to create and extend an atrium to the east, replacing the old garage, integrating with the 500/600 towers [[and a development replacing the newer garage). So basically Franklin Street would be outdoors, and would continue inside the Ren Cen as a pedestrian atrium. There'd be plenty of escalators and clear sight lines to make it easy to get to the different levels.

The block east of St Antoine to Schweizer is very big and deep. It could have ground floor commercial space, and then a few floors of parking, with a few residential towers on top. This block extends to where the new 375 avenue will/might be, making it a convenient garage for parking. This garage could also provide parking for developments south of Atwater, so that the riverfront itself doesn't have to be compromised by parking garages.


From my understanding, the Ren Cen's circulation is supposed to be a # pattern, with each interior "street" intersecting underneath a tower, and extending beyond the building into the parking garages, 500/600 towers, PM station, and Millender Center tube. But that didn't really seem to work. The renovation tried to make it more of a + shaped pattern, but it didn't go all the way. But if they made it even more of a pure + shaped pattern I think it would be more successful.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Combine that with many of the shops closing early [[6 PM) in addition to the hassle to find them made it a no go zone retail-wise in my mind.

But I've enjoyed a few times walking about the 'maze' for the beauty of certain areas, angles and atrium views.

The Winter Garden [[or whatever it was/ is called?) was nice flanking off the river as it does. Dining at Andiamo's was cool as parking was nearby.

Dozens of retail shops & restaurants have opened and gone bust in the Ren Cen over the years. It was an island fortress when it opened and it still is.

[davewindsor]

Now that office vacancy rates have tightened downtown I wonder why GM hasn't converted some its unused retail space to offices. So much of the space has been boarded up for so long it's easy to forget how much space is going unused. Add in the Wintergarden and even Beaubien Place and there should be opportunities. GM could use the space themselves and lease current GM space to outside companies or lease as shared space such as WeWork or develop a tech startup hub for auto related companies. Thoughts?

Can't see that happening. Office space usually rents for a fraction of what mall retail space rents for per square foot. In addition to really high rents, malls usually ask for a percentage of the gross sales. If they want it rented, they need to lower their retail rents, which should be their focus. If the price is low enough, the retail space will sell itself, regardless of how incompetent the leasing agent is.

It could also be that they are too selective with who they let in there. I suspect a gaming store would be largely successful there, especially during special events like this weekend's Youmacon. Never saw one last time I visited. Dollar Shops, Outlet stores and athletic shoe and sporting goods stores could also work.