Dueling Protests Planned For Sunday's Lions' Game At Ford Field

**emu steve** · October-04-17, 02:06 PM

I assume this will be civil.

I remember in 2013 when Virginia had a gubernatorial election that Obama came to Arlington. The Tea Party group decided to stage a protest outside.

Folks just yelled at each other... These were just voters on each side of the political aisle disagreeing. This was NOT a bunch of hell bent extremists looking to incite mayhem.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...hem/730753001/

**aj3647** · October-04-17, 03:04 PM

Ah yes, professional Right Wing muckraker and noted Trump supporter Brian Pannebecker rears his racist head again. Fun fact about Brian: In 2001 he wrote a glowing review on Amazon.com for David Duke’s memoir: My Awakening: A Path to Racial Understanding, a book that the Anti-Defamation League unfavorably compared to Hitler's Mein Kampf.

The review on Amazon has since been deleted by Brian [[as has his facebook page which had some, shall we say, "questionable" racial comments about Obama on it) but luckily Politico has preserved it for posterity.

http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/mo...nst-tpa-212543

**Bong-Man** · October-04-17, 09:57 PM

20 years ago or so they never showed the national anthem on tv. They used to honor servicemen/women once a game. Now they do it three times a game. Last home game, 5 jets flew over an enclosed stadium....the crews were later honored on the field. At least Brian will actually see the jets while he's protesting. For $160 bucks, I'll see a video.

**DetroitSoldier** · October-05-17, 01:45 AM

I'm active duty military. I feel like the child caught in the middle of an ugly custody battle. Each side wants to use me to politicize and build their case against their opponent. It's disgusting.

**emu steve** · October-05-17, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

I'm active duty military. I feel like the child caught in the middle of an ugly custody battle. Each side wants to use me to politicize and build their case against their opponent. It's disgusting.

I agree with these last two posts. The national anthem is now more than the national anthem. It has been 'weaponized' and has become a litmus test and people are either sufficiently or insufficiently for it.

**Zacha341** · October-05-17, 07:11 AM

The NFL 'taking the knee' may have died down post Kaepernick had not Trump inserted his foot and mouth! Ala his comment stating how nice it'd be if the owners would ditch 'the son of a bitches' for knelling. Now the protest at minimal is emblematic as a repudiation of Trump.

Where does this end? Are we at the beginning, or the end? Especially in light of mass public violence among crowds. Are we to witness beat-downs if you knell, fist-fights if you don't? Judgement all about amid the eight dollar beers.

Probably best you arrive in a wheel chair, walker or waving a cane as exemption clause to it all!

In the meantime perhaps the Lions will win a game.

**JBMcB** · October-05-17, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

It has been 'weaponized' and has become a litmus test and people are either sufficiently or insufficiently for it.

Same thing is being done with those who 'take a knee.' If you aren't doing it then, somehow, you are against civil rights or something. Never mind if you have a different opinion on if it's appropriate, it's a litmus test of your dedication to whatever cause some guy thought up.

Here's how a free society works. The players are free to say and do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. The NFL is free to fire them, support them, get rid of the national anthem, whatever.

Personally, I think the kneeling protest thing is silly, as taking a knee during any sort of ceremony has historically been a sign of fealty to one's lord or master. Add in the uniforms, helmets, and parallels between football and war, and the optics are pretty goofy. Not what's intended I'm sure, but that's sure what it looks like.

**Maof** · October-05-17, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

The NFL 'taking the knee' may have died down post Kaepernick had not Trump inserted his foot and mouth! Ala his comment stating how nice it'd be if the owners would ditch 'the son of a bitches' for knelling. Now the protest at minimal is emblematic as a repudiation of Trump.

Amen to that!

**ABetterDetroit** · October-05-17, 08:26 AM

In Detroit we had a grand total of zero Lions taking a knee last season and in week 1 this year.

Thanks to the President running his mouth at one of his ego boosting rallies among his angry followers we now have a complete shit show during the playing of the national anthem at the Lions games.

Booing during the anthem sucks. Thanks Donald for dividing people as much as possible. That is not leadership.

In no way does all this anger turned against ourselves 'make this country great again'. The reality is the more of it there is the results can be damaging economically, cause more expensive policing and be life threatening.

**DetroitSoldier** · October-05-17, 08:38 AM

By the way I have been to dozens of sporting events in Europe and Asia. In none of those places is the National Anthem played before an event, unless it involves national teams.

I'm not saying it's bad if we do it in America. But let's stop politicizing the event by saying the participation in it determines how patriotic you are. If you want patriotism go to a military event or a rally. If you want football or hockey or whatever...go for the game.

**aj3647** · October-05-17, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

By the way I have been to dozens of sporting events in Europe and Asia. In none of those places is the National Anthem played before an event, unless it involves national teams.

I'm not saying it's bad if we do it in America. But let's stop politicizing the event by saying the participation in it determines how patriotic you are. If you want patriotism go to a military event or a rally. If you want football or hockey or whatever...go for the game.

When I was a student at UofM, I often attended football games with foreign students from various countries all over the globe. They all commented on how "nationalistic" and "militaristic" our sports events were [[and not in a good way). One student from Lebanon remarked that it reminded them of what a public Hezbollah rally looked like. A German student said we seemed to worship our flag as if it was a religious object.

And you know what? I couldn't tell them they were wrong. When you look at it from an outsider's perspective, it IS a little weird that we have fighter jets fly over our sporting events. One foreign student once remarked to me that if that happened in his country, "people would run for their lives."

**Richard** · October-05-17, 10:40 AM

A national flag creates a national bond,what do people think of the picture of the soldiers raising the flag on Iwo Jima and what was the meaning behind it?

There is not a football game played in this country anymore that does not have fighter jets and other armed aircraft circling abouve anymore for security.

**401don** · October-05-17, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

There is not a football game played in this country anymore that does not have fighter jets and other armed aircraft circling abouve anymore for security.

I don't believe this is true and if it is it's an incredible waste of time and resources.

**aj3647** · October-05-17, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I don't believe this is true and if it is it's an incredible waste of time and resources.

It's not true. He's making shit up as usual. Every single NFL game in the country most certainly does not have a combat air patrol above it for "security." I'm pretty sure there won't be F-16s flying above Detroit for the Lions game this weekend, and if I'm wrong, please anyone feel free to snap a few photos and prove me wrong.

**emu steve** · October-05-17, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

When I was a student at UofM, I often attended football games with foreign students from various countries all over the globe. They all commented on how "nationalistic" and "militaristic" our sports events were [[and not in a good way). One student from Lebanon remarked that it reminded them of what a public Hezbollah rally looked like. A German student said we seemed to worship our flag as if it was a religious object.

And you know what? I couldn't tell them they were wrong. When you look at it from an outsider's perspective, it IS a little weird that we have fighter jets fly over our sporting events. One foreign student once remarked to me that if that happened in his country, "people would run for their lives."

I agree. I don't know why a game between Detroit and say Atlanta is treated as a game between two countries.

It is a sporting event. No heads of state are there. Etc. etc.

And, of course, our president never found a flag he didn't want to wrap himself to play up to his base.

**Meddle** · October-05-17, 01:49 PM

The song of indoctrination should be eliminated from all non-government activities.

**Lowell** · October-05-17, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

A national flag creates a national bond, what do people think of the picture of the soldiers raising the flag on Iwo Jima and what was the meaning behind it?

Original fake news. That shot was staged. It hardly takes five marines to hoist one skinny flag pole. I always found that aspect a bit disrespectful of the marines. Great shot nonetheless whose inspiration worked magic for bond sales.

**aj3647** · October-05-17, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Original fake news. That shot was staged. It hardly takes five marines to hoist one skinny flag pole. I always found that aspect a bit disrespectful of the marines. Great shot nonetheless whose inspiration worked magic for bond sales.

Correct. There were two flag-raisings that day. The original flag was raised as a way to visually indicate to other Marine units fighting on the mountain that the mountaintop had been taken by the Marines, as heavy fighting would rage on Mount Suribachi for several more days after the flag was raised.

That flag was then taken down at the request of Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestal, who wanted it to be brought to him as a souvenir of the victory. A second, larger flag was raised in its place, but as you said, it was a staged photo-shoot.

**drjeff** · October-05-17, 02:24 PM

The US government pays NFL teams big money for this "patriotic" crap to use as a recruiting tool for the military. Just a few years ago, the players remained in the locker room during the anthem.

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-na...-6f682cebc7cd/

**aj3647** · October-05-17, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

The US government pays NFL teams big money for this "patriotic" crap to use as a recruiting tool for the military. Just a few years ago, the players remained in the locker room during the anthem.

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-na...-6f682cebc7cd/

That program ended in 2015, once it became publicly known and some in Congress decided [[rightfully so) that it was a waste of money. But yes, in many ways, it continues unofficially at the behest of the NFL. They're just doing it for free now.

**JBMcB** · October-05-17, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Original fake news. That shot was staged. It hardly takes five marines to hoist one skinny flag pole. I always found that aspect a bit disrespectful of the marines.

Except that it wasn't staged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raisin...ging_confusion

There was a This American Life bit about this a few years ago. A subsequent photo *was* staged, and the two have been confused ever since.

Here's a CNN article about it, as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/22/world/...ima/index.html

**Junjie** · October-05-17, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

By the way I have been to dozens of sporting events in Europe and Asia. In none of those places is the National Anthem played before an event, unless it involves national teams.

I'm not saying it's bad if we do it in America. But let's stop politicizing the event by saying the participation in it determines how patriotic you are. If you want patriotism go to a military event or a rally. If you want football or hockey or whatever...go for the game.

I agree with you.

I will note that I have been to a domestic sporting event [[soccer match) overseas that did have the national anthem played beforehand, but that was in China, which I think we can all agree is hardly a model for the US.

In general I don't really see why playing the anthem at sporting events is necessary. I'm not offended by it, but if it went away I wouldn't care.

**emu steve** · October-06-17, 05:48 AM

Sometimes I think we are damn determined to virtually destroy our country...

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/hi...hem/737139001/

**Zacha341** · October-06-17, 07:21 AM

^^^ Some are counting on that destruction. Let The the mayhem begin! Bring on the Hegelian Flux!

**Richard** · October-06-17, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

It's not true. He's making shit up as usual. Every single NFL game in the country most certainly does not have a combat air patrol above it for "security." I'm pretty sure there won't be F-16s flying above Detroit for the Lions game this weekend, and if I'm wrong, please anyone feel free to snap a few photos and prove me wrong.

And as usual you are confused as to what end to speak out of.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YnAcI07SWMw

Maybe you can disprove it by flying a plane with the transponder turned off over the game.