50+killed in Las Vegas concert shooting-200+injured

[aj3647]

This shooting once again demonstrates the silliness of metal detectors at ball games, concerts, etc. Basically the authorities disarmed everyone and put them in a pen where this guy could pick off as many as he wished. If you want to find a crowd of people it's not very difficult.

And if every single concertgoer there had a handgun to defend themselves with, what fucking difference would that have made? Shooter was on the 32nd floor, you gonna snipe him with your Glock?

Ah, well then there are at least three possibilities that allowed Stephen Paddock to shoot so rapidly. He could have had a fully automatic weapon, employed a full auto clip on a modified semi-automatic rifle, or "bump fired" a semi automatic weapon. From the CNN article, "Audio from witnesses clearly shows the shooter was firing at a rate impossible for even the most skilled shooters with specialized triggers." We will have to wait to find out just how he accomplished such rapid fire. If they were all illegal, Mr. Paddock would have had to resort to driving a truck through a crowd or something.

Don't have to wait, we already know and I was 100% right. He used a "bump stock" on his rifle to increase the rate of fire.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/03...to-speed-fire/

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/bump...ire-full-auto/

And guess what? These are 100% legal to own. 'Murica.

Also, he wouldn't have been able to use a car, since the concert wasn't at street level. Anyone attempting to drive into that crowd would have crashed headlong into a cement wall.

[ABetterDetroit]

The mass shootings at elementary schools, restaurants, movie theatres, airports, high schools, night clubs, places of work, and now a concert aren't just tiring tho.

They are a tragic loss of human life on a large scale that seem to keep getting worse and more common as military/police type semi-autos become more and more popular.

Opps, forgot University's on that list. The dead students at Virginia Tech deserve to never be forgotten ever. My sincere apologies to them.

[oladub]

aj, Good finds on the bump stock. I had never heard of bump stocks. The second article does say bump stocks are legal whether or not all of the shooters guns were legal.

No, Mr. Paddock wouldn't have used a rent a truck from the 32nd floor but we do regularly see "lone wolf" terrorists who don't have access to guns deploying vehicles to run down pedestrians in Europe and even Canada. McVeigh used a truck bomb. Mohammed Atta used airliners. But for the average guy who wants to do some mass killing not specific to country music and who can't get his hands on guns, massive bombs, or airliners when crazy or in a peculiar religious mood, vehicles will do in a pinch.

[aj3647]

No, Mr. Paddock wouldn't have used a rent a truck from the 32nd floor but we do regularly see "lone wolf" terrorists who don't have access to guns deploying vehicles to run down pedestrians in Europe and even Canada. McVeigh used a truck bomb. Mohammed Atta used airliners. But for the average guy who wants to do some mass killing not specific to country music and who can't get his hands on guns, massive bombs, or airliners when crazy or in a peculiar religious mood, vehicles will do in a pinch.

Did you even look at the picture I posted of the concert venue? How in the hell was he going to drive a vehicle through there? Do you not see the wall adjacent to the street, separating it from the elevated concert venue?

Unless he's got the hover-converted DeLorean from Back to the Future Part II, he was not driving a vehicle through that crowd.

[oladub]

Did you even look at the picture I posted of the concert venue? How in the hell was he going to drive a vehicle through there? Do you not see the wall adjacent to the street, separating it from the elevated concert venue?

Unless he's got the hover-converted DeLorean from Back to the Future Part II, he was not driving a vehicle through that crowd.

Did you even read my reply? You only had to read my first sentence: "No, Mr. Paddock wouldn't have used a rent a truck from the second floor". My point was that if rage, craziness, politics, or religion motivation is a reason for "lone wolves" to kill people, they don't need guns. We don't even know Mr. Paddock's motivation yet to help determine if he was was just in a crazy rage wanting to kill anyone, in which case knives, home made bombs, or vehicles would do, or whether he for some reason had it out for country music fans.

[ABetterDetroit]

Did you even look at the picture I posted of the concert venue? How in the hell was he going to drive a vehicle through there? Do you not see the wall adjacent to the street, separating it from the elevated concert venue?

Unless he's got the hover-converted DeLorean from Back to the Future Part II, he was not driving a vehicle through that crowd.

You fail to understand aj3647

They have a total lack of empathy for the victims or their loved ones. They don't care. It didn't happen to them.

They will always use the logic of 'there are many ways to kill people' so don't infringe on my constitutional right to have semi-automatic .223 /.308 battle rifles with quickly detachable 30rd magazines allowing for very fast reloading readily available to all.

[aj3647]

Did you even read my reply? You only had to read my first sentence: "No, Mr. Paddock wouldn't have used a rent a truck from the second floor". My point was that if rage, craziness, politics, or religion motivation is a reason for "lone wolves" to kill people, they don't need guns. We don't even know Mr. Paddock's motivation yet to help determine if he was was just in a crazy rage wanting to kill anyone, in which case knives, home made bombs, or vehicles would do, or whether he for some reason had it out for country music fans.

You said he "wasn't going to use a rental truck from the 32nd floor", well he wasn't going to use it from street-level either.

Also, do you really think he could have inflicted even one-tenth of the casualties that he did if he used knives? Of course not.

I suppose he could have used homemade bombs, but again, that requires a certain level of expertise and sophistication. Anyone can pick up a gun. Children can do it. Children HAVE done it. Adam Lanza killed 28 people with an AR-15 rifle and he was an anorexic, 110-lb autistic person.

[oladub]

You said he "wasn't going to use a rental truck from the 32nd floor", well he wasn't going to use it from street-level either.

Also, do you really think he could have inflicted even one-tenth of the casualties that he did if he used knives? Of course not.

I suppose he could have used homemade bombs, but again, that requires a certain level of expertise and sophistication. Anyone can pick up a gun. Children can do it. Children HAVE done it. Adam Lanza killed 28 people with an AR-15 rifle and he was an anorexic, 110-lb autistic person.

aj, You are getting more and more desperate. You missed both of my points. I acknowledged he wasn't going to use a truck from the 32nd. floor. I also pondered whether, depending on his motives, he would have been satisfied to have killed people outside of a country music venue. I don't know. Maybe you do because you wrote, "he wouldn't".Unlike you, I don't know that. I would say "he could have" but you know "he wouldn't. That's more certainty than I have a basis for.

You also distorted what I wrote, "knives, home made bombs, or vehicles to portraying my response to only knives and bombs. I realize that distortion is one of you techniques.

You are correct though that bombs require some sophistication. So does modifying a gun. Your answer seems to be more laws. I'm not totally disagreeing with the usefulness of restrictions on bump fire technology but am not as optimistic that anti gun legislation will be anywhere near a cure all. Norway has tough anti gun legislation, for instance, and also had Breivik who killed 8 people with a bomb and 69 people with a rifle.

[Honky Tonk]

Whoa, will you look @ that, it's almost noon, time to feed the troll.

[Richard]

And if every single concertgoer there had a handgun to defend themselves with, what fucking difference would that have made? Shooter was on the 32nd floor, you gonna snipe him with your Glock?



Don't have to wait, we already know and I was 100% right. He used a "bump stock" on his rifle to increase the rate of fire.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/03...to-speed-fire/

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/bump...ire-full-auto/

And guess what? These are 100% legal to own. 'Murica.

Also, he wouldn't have been able to use a car, since the concert wasn't at street level. Anyone attempting to drive into that crowd would have crashed headlong into a cement wall.

You probably should wait,there is no way he started shooting with a bump fire,weapons used have not been released yet so nobody can be 100% right on speculation.

If I was to speculate what he started with was fully automatic being drum or belt fed.

People are showing pictures of guns with 30-60 round magazines and saying that was the gun used,no way with the first shots that was a 30-60 round magazine.

They also reported find traces of ammonia nitrate in his car but everything is speculation until the finial word on what they want you to believe is put out.

People on the ground started out by saying the shooting started on the 20th floor but now it was on the 32 floor,in the moment it would understandable to have a 12 floor difference.

ATF recently did a sting on Amazon selling full conversion kits.

All that does is weed out the idiots,if somebody wants to do something not matter how many laws you put in place they will figure out a way.

[Jimaz]

And if every single concertgoer there had a handgun to defend themselves with, what fucking difference would that have made? Shooter was on the 32nd floor, you gonna snipe him with your Glock?...

Imagine the collateral damage!

[Zacha341]

I have to concur, having a handgun on ones person would NOT have helped in this case. Which makes this specific terrorism all the more heinous.

Imagine if he'd had a silencer? More would have died. There is more to come out as it stands.... it's still not clear just what gun he was using.

[Jimaz]

[aj3647]

You are correct though that bombs require some sophistication. So does modifying a gun. Your answer seems to be more laws. I'm not totally disagreeing with the usefulness of restrictions on bump fire technology but am not as optimistic that anti gun legislation will be anywhere near a cure all. Norway has tough anti gun legislation, for instance, and also had Breivik who killed 8 people with a bomb and 69 people with a rifle.

One incident, six years ago in Norway. You know this happens on a regular basis here, right? One attack in Norway does not compare to hundreds of mass shooting incidents in the United States.

Also, Norway has some of the more relaxed gun laws in Europe. Stricter than ours, yes, but fairly tame by European standards.

Also, I said "he wouldn't" have used a car at that specific venue. Yes, maybe he could have used a car at a different venue. But now we're dealing in hypotheticals, aren't we? He didn't drive a car into a crowd of people, now did he? No, what did he do instead? He took an arsenal of guns up to the 32nd floor of a hotel and rained death down upon hundreds of people. That's what he actually did.

Why do you think he chose the means that he did? I assume he owned a car, so why didn't he just drive into a crowd on the crowded Vegas strip? Why is it that car attacks in the U.S. are very rare, but mass shootings are common? If the car is just as deadly as the gun, why do killers overwhelmingly chose guns in the United States as their tool of choice for committing intentional homicide?

[aj3647]

You probably should wait,there is no way he started shooting with a bump fire,weapons used have not been released yet so nobody can be 100% right on speculation.

Here's are actual photographs of two of the 23 guns recovered from his hotel room.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-loo...163623120.html





In the first photo, you can CLEARLY see a bump stock on the rifle, along with what appears to be an extended magazine. So no, I'm not speculating, I'm stating facts. Use your own two eyes if you don't believe me.

[Richard]

Here's are actual photographs of two of the 23 guns recovered from his hotel room.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-loo...163623120.html





In the first photo, you can CLEARLY see a bump stock on the rifle, along with what appears to be an extended magazine. So no, I'm not speculating, I'm stating facts. Use your own two eyes if you don't believe me.

Pictures of weapons on the floor,you said that you were 100% correct that he used a bump stock,there were 23 weapons there.

You were standing next to him?

Look at the magazine size,the rate of fire for those pictured then listen to the video and count the seconds,and listen to the sound of the gun fire.

Those are unspent rounds laying on the floor next to it,what did he do carry them with him in a coffee can and stop to refill the magazines,that's a staged photo.

But you are 100% correct,okay.

[aj3647]

Pictures of weapons on the floor,you said that you were 100% correct that he used a bump stock,there were 23 weapons there.

You were standing next to him?

Look at the magazine size,the rate of fire for those pictured then listen to the video and count the seconds,and listen to the sound of the gun fire.

Those are unspent rounds laying on the floor next to it,what did he do carry them with him in a coffee can and stop to refill the magazines,that's a staged photo.

But you are 100% correct,okay.

If even photographic evidence doesn't convince you, then you are a lost cause. I said he used a bump stock, I didn't say every single fucking gun he had was equipped with one, I provided you with photographic evidence of a bump stock, I don't know what more I can do. No, I wasn't there, but I've provided more evidence for my claims thus far than you have for your baseless speculation that he was firing with a belt-fed automatic weapon.

Look I know what your game is, you and everyone else here. You desperately, desperately, want him to have used illegal automatic weapons because then you can jump up and crow "SEE?!! GUN LAWS DON'T WORK!!!" If everything he used was 100% legal to own and 100% legally purchased by the shooter, then that works against you.

So you have your preferred narrative and you'll stick with it no matter what facts you are presented with. Any facts that tell you anything other than what you want to believe will be summarily dismissed as being "fake news" or part of some grand elaborate conspiracy.

[Richard]

If even photographic evidence doesn't convince you, then you are a lost cause. I said he used a bump stock, I didn't say every single fucking gun he had was equipped with one, I provided you with photographic evidence of a bump stock, I don't know what more I can do. No, I wasn't there, but I've provided more evidence for my claims thus far than you have for your baseless speculation that he was firing with a belt-fed automatic weapon.

Look I know what your game is, you and everyone else here. You desperately, desperately, want him to have used illegal automatic weapons because then you can jump up and crow "SEE?!! GUN LAWS DON'T WORK!!!" If everything he used was 100% legal to own and 100% legally purchased by the shooter, then that works against you.

So you have your preferred narrative and you'll stick with it no matter what facts you are presented with. Any facts that tell you anything other than what you want to believe will be summarily dismissed as being "fake news" or part of some grand elaborate conspiracy.

awwww,if it was a conspiracy,he was a millionaire that owned airplanes and an extensive array of weapons, but no silencer.

You are like the media spending all day and night speculating on everything before they have the facts.

It has nothing to do with guns because if somebody wants to cause mass harm they can do it without a gun,that is a undisputed fact.

So who really uses these tragedies as a gun control platform?

[oladub]

One incident, six years ago in Norway. You know this happens on a regular basis here, right? One attack in Norway does not compare to hundreds of mass shooting incidents in the United States.

Also, Norway has some of the more relaxed gun laws in Europe. Stricter than ours, yes, but fairly tame by European standards.

Also, I said "he wouldn't" have used a car at that specific venue. Yes, maybe he could have used a car at a different venue. But now we're dealing in hypotheticals, aren't we? He didn't drive a car into a crowd of people, now did he? No, what did he do instead? He took an arsenal of guns up to the 32nd floor of a hotel and rained death down upon hundreds of people. That's what he actually did.

Why do you think he chose the means that he did? I assume he owned a car, so why didn't he just drive into a crowd on the crowded Vegas strip? Why is it that car attacks in the U.S. are very rare, but mass shootings are common? If the car is just as deadly as the gun, why do killers overwhelmingly chose guns in the United States as their tool of choice for committing intentional homicide?

I actually didn't know that the 69 people killed by one terrorist in Norway "happens on a regular basis here". As far as I know, the Las Vegas attack was the largest such gun attack to happen in the US and, so far, fewer were killed in Las Vegas. You must want even tougher gun laws than Norway's. It turns out that the Las Vegas attack would be approximately the 11th largest mass shooting in the world as of January 15, 2017 "All but one of the 20 worst mass public shootings, 45 of the worst 50, occurred outside the United States"

"Since 1970, all of the 20 worst mass public shootings occurred outside the US. Muslims also committed 18 of the worst 20 mass public shootings in the world. All 20 of the worst mass public shootings occurred outside the US, and that was also true for 40 of the worst 44. It is possible that we are still missing even some of these large mass public shootings prior to 2000, but any of the ones being missed are outside of the US, Canada, the Commonwealth countries, and Europe.""The US makes up about 4.4% of the world of the population and accounts for 4.1% of the deaths from these attacks."

[Jimaz]

Amateur video at the scene:

UNREAL & Unseen footage Vegas Mandalay bay.... wait for it

I'm not sure what we're supposed to wait for. At one point there might be a flash of gunfire. The gunfire is clearly audible. It's all pretty chaotic.

At the beginning it sounds like distant gunfire followed by nearby gunfire followed again by distant gunfire. That's weird.

[Johnnny5]

.

At the beginning it sounds like distant gunfire followed by nearby gunfire followed again by distant gunfire. That's weird.

The guns shown above are 2 different calibers. One is an AR-15 which is generally .223 and the other is an AR-10 which is typically .308. That and the fact that the shooter was apparently shooting from two windows which faced different directions would account for the sound differences.

[Jimaz]

I think there's an echo too. That might account for some of the differences.

[Meddle]

You were standing next to him?

But you are 100% correct,okay.

Your posting name may show as 'Richard', but you don't gotta be a Dick every day in every post, do you?

[Richard]

I think there's an echo too. That might account for some of the differences.

She was directly under the shooter,it does sound like echoes.

Check out the videos under 2nd gunman 4th floor,there is video of an automatic being fired from the 4th floor.

His brother said he was not good with guns or not even gun centric,but he could have been a closet gun guy.

[Richard]

Your posting name may show as 'Richard', but you don't gotta be a Dick every day in every post, do you?

Only to those who publicly call me a liar but do not have the balls to apologize when they are wrong,haveing said that and sense people refer to the name Richard as Dick I guess I am a Dick all the time posting or not.

At least I do not stoop to the child leval of calling people names,given the choice I would prefer to be a Dick.I guess I could change my handle so I could Meddle in others business incognito but that would not stop me from being a dick though.