50+killed in Las Vegas concert shooting-200+injured

**Zacha341** · October-02-17, 06:15 AM

Las Vegas shooter identified as 64-year-old Stephen Paddock
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...tephen-paddock

FIFTY dead and 200 injured as gunman with terrifying arsenal of weapons opens fire on packed Vegas music festival from 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay hotel: Shooter killed and 'companion' caught
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4uLiAwlav

Las Vegas Shooting: Live Updates
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las...ter/index.html

**Maof** · October-02-17, 09:49 AM

Terrible. Although this nut may have gotten his military weapon thru the black market, you think after Sandy Hook, the gun laws would have changed.

**Ray1936** · October-02-17, 09:55 AM

All well at this end. Actually, we never go on the strip anyway. Too many nuts and fruitcakes. -- Ray1936 in Las Vegas.

**Richard** · October-02-17, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Maof

Terrible. Although this nut may have gotten his military weapon thru the black market, you think after Sandy Hook, the gun laws would have changed.

You were there and have seen the weapons?

The change the gun laws is a bit of a tired argument.

**canuck** · October-02-17, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

You were there and have seen the weapons?

The change the gun laws is a bit of a tired argument.

Lotsalaffta.

**aj3647** · October-02-17, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Maof

Terrible. Although this nut may have gotten his military weapon thru the black market, you think after Sandy Hook, the gun laws would have changed.

No need. A legally-purchased semi-automatic rifle like an AR-15 can be converted to fully-automatic and even a novice could probably pull it off with the right tools and a tutorial easily found on the internet. Also, machine guns are legal to own in 41 out of 50 states, including Nevada, provided that they were manufactured prior to 1986 and you have the appropriate ATF paperwork. Since this guy apparently had no felony record, he absolutely could have legally possessed a machine gun.

**ABetterDetroit** · October-02-17, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

You were there and have seen the weapons?

The change the gun laws is a bit of a tired argument.

The mass shootings at elementary schools, restaurants, movie theatres, airports, high schools, night clubs, places of work, and now a concert aren't just tiring tho.

They are a tragic loss of human life on a large scale that seem to keep getting worse and more common as military/police type semi-autos become more and more popular.

**oladub** · October-02-17, 12:00 PM

This article raises the question of what sort of a weapon Stephan Paddock used. It could have been fully automatic or was a semi-automatic rifle modified with a kit to be automatic. According to this article, either is probably illegal. "You may hear about so-called “full auto kits” that can convert a semi-automatic rifle into a full-auto one. Such kits do exist, but they fall under the same machine gun restrictions from the 1986 FOPA bill—meaning that the only people allowed by law to install those parts are those licensed by the ATF as machine gun manufacturers—and those firearms may not be sold to anyone other than a military or law enforcement agency."

**canuck** · October-02-17, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

The mass shootings at elementary schools, restaurants, movie theatres, airports, high schools, night clubs, places of work, and now a concert aren't just tiring tho.

They are a tragic loss of human life on a large scale that seem to keep getting worse and more common as military/police type semi-autos become more and more popular.

We are just witnessing another in a series of competitive mass killings. The killer ends up killing himself, and leaves a huge toll of destruction. The Amerucan love affair with firearms, especially automatic weapons is a serious affliction.

**Maof** · October-02-17, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

You were there and have seen the weapons?

The change the gun laws is a bit of a tired argument.

......okay

**Richard** · October-02-17, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

We are just witnessing another in a series of competitive mass killings. The killer ends up killing himself, and leaves a huge toll of destruction. The Amerucan love affair with firearms, especially automatic weapons is a serious affliction.

Seems to be no different then the Canaidun love for automatic weapons.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...in_canada.html

**Canadian Visitor** · October-02-17, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Seems to be no different then the Canaidun love for automatic weapons.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...in_canada.html

There is a great deal of difference.

Even the article notes that you have to have a permit to own what in Canada we call a 'restricted weapon'.

Ownership rate here is less than 1/3 what it is in the US for that category [[broadly, handguns and assault rifles/semi-autos).

You actually have to take a course, you're vetted by RCMP, and carrying is another permit altogether, also subject to police approval.

Sure, there are such guns here; and gun lovers who appreciate them. [[I say that non-pejoratively)

But there is social consensus on their not being overly easy to access; and there isn't in fact a culture of mass ownership.

Also of note is our limit on magazine size. [[10)

**aj3647** · October-02-17, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

This article raises the question of what sort of a weapon Stephan Paddock used. It could have been fully automatic or was a semi-automatic rifle modified with a kit to be automatic. According to this article, either is probably illegal. "You may hear about so-called “full auto kits” that can convert a semi-automatic rifle into a full-auto one. Such kits do exist, but they fall under the same machine gun restrictions from the 1986 FOPA bill—meaning that the only people allowed by law to install those parts are those licensed by the ATF as machine gun manufacturers—and those firearms may not be sold to anyone other than a military or law enforcement agency."

He didn't have to illegally modify it to fully-auto to achieve that effect. There are legal ways to increase the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle without an automatic conversion. He could have "bump fired" it or used an echo trigger. Both of these methods would sound very much like automatic rifle fire without the weapon itself actually having a regular or converted automatic receiver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_fire

**Richard** · October-02-17, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

There is a great deal of difference.

Even the article notes that you have to have a permit to own what in Canada we call a 'restricted weapon'.

Ownership rate here is less than 1/3 what it is in the US for that category [[broadly, handguns and assault rifles/semi-autos).

You actually have to take a course, you're vetted by RCMP, and carrying is another permit altogether, also subject to policy approval.

Sure, there are such guns here; and gun lovers who appreciate them. [[I say that non-pejoratively)

But there is social consensus on their not being overly easy to access; and there isn't in fact a culture of mass ownership.

Also of note is our limit on magazine size. [[10)

But does all of that work?

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ng-stolen-guns

Canada also has no law or constitutional provision guaranteeing the right to bear arms.

I would be willing to bet that there is no firearm made in the world that cannot be purchased on the street in Canada,sans the law.

**Canadian Visitor** · October-02-17, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

But does all of that work?

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ng-stolen-guns

Canada also has no law or constitutional provision guaranteeing the right to bear arms.

I would be willing to bet that there is no firearm made in the world that cannot be purchased on the street in Canada,sans the law.

Yes it does work.

See the difference in the gun homicide rate, the homicide rate, the accidental gun death rate, and the mass shooting rate.

Of course, people can get guns illegally. You're argument is tantamount to saying, people can drink and drive anyway, why not legalize it.

The refutation in both cases is the same, that making it illegal, and/or restricting access etc. results in a LOWER rate of it happening.

You can pick up a handgun, on the street in many US cities for $50 no problem.

In Canada, try $500+

The result, fewer guns, fewer people to steal guns from, few people to get them on the street from.

Doesn't wipe out violence or crime, it reduces it.

**oladub** · October-02-17, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

He didn't have to illegally modify it to fully-auto to achieve that effect. There are legal ways to increase the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle without an automatic conversion. He could have "bump fired" it or used an echo trigger. Both of these methods would sound very much like automatic rifle fire without the weapon itself actually having a regular or converted automatic receiver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_fire

Ah, well then there are at least three possibilities that allowed Stephen Paddock to shoot so rapidly. He could have had a fully automatic weapon, employed a full auto clip on a modified semi-automatic rifle, or "bump fired" a semi automatic weapon. From the CNN article, "Audio from witnesses clearly shows the shooter was firing at a rate impossible for even the most skilled shooters with specialized triggers." We will have to wait to find out just how he accomplished such rapid fire. If they were all illegal, Mr. Paddock would have had to resort to driving a truck through a crowd or something.

**401don** · October-02-17, 04:25 PM

This shooting once again demonstrates the silliness of metal detectors at ball games, concerts, etc. Basically the authorities disarmed everyone and put them in a pen where this guy could pick off as many as he wished. If you want to find a crowd of people it's not very difficult.

**Honky Tonk** · October-02-17, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Ah, well then there are at least three possibilities that allowed Stephen Paddock to shoot so rapidly. He could have had a fully automatic weapon, employed a full auto clip on a modified semi-automatic rifle, or "bump fired" a semi automatic weapon. From the CNN article, "Audio from witnesses clearly shows the shooter was firing at a rate impossible for even the most skilled shooters with specialized triggers." We will have to wait to find out just how he accomplished such rapid fire. If they were all illegal, Mr. Paddock would have had to resort to driving a truck through a crowd or something.

"Mr. Paddock", "MR. PADDOCK", I keep reading news stories, updates, and posts, and everyone keeps calling him "Mr." The noun "Mr." is used as a sign of respect or even honor when addressing someone from the male species. Could we just refer to this POS as "that asshole" from now on? "Mr." indeed.

**Ray1936** · October-02-17, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Mr. Paddock", "MR. PADDOCK", I keep reading news stories, updates, and posts, and everyone keeps calling him "Mr." The noun "Mr." is used as a sign of respect or even honor when addressing someone from the male species. Could we just refer to this POS as "that asshole" from now on? "Mr." indeed.

Where's the "Like" button for this post! LOL! Well said.

**Johnnny5** · October-02-17, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Mr. Paddock", "MR. PADDOCK", I keep reading news stories, updates, and posts, and everyone keeps calling him "Mr." The noun "Mr." is used as a sign of respect or even honor when addressing someone from the male species. Could we just refer to this POS as "that asshole" from now on? "Mr." indeed.

Agreed. X2

It's sad when we can probably all name off at least a half dozen of these mass murderers. I wonder why the media has decided that these scumbags and their life stories are so important.

**Canadian Visitor** · October-02-17, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Agreed. X2

It's sad when we can probably all name off at least a half dozen of these mass murderers. I wonder why the media has decided that these scumbags and their life stories are so important.

Because you watch them tell those stories, and therefore help sell ads.

****

I don't know you personally and mean no insult.

In reference to American media, you all put up with a lot of crap that would cause a revolution anywhere else.

Maybe time to be a bit more demanding.......or at the very least, get off the couch and go tell your house rep and your senator that this type of nonsense has to stop.

There are a range of options from left-to-right that could address the issue. [[ie reduced the liklihood of more mass shootings, or violent crime in general)

What will not solve the issue is rhetoric, platitudes or prayers.

**Canadian Visitor** · October-02-17, 09:18 PM

You know I said something in another thread that bears repeating.

Low expectations are not a solution!

**canuck** · October-02-17, 09:47 PM

Mr Paddock liked country music. Mr Paddock had hockey bags filled with ammunition. Mr Paddock was a gentleman until he...

**oladub** · October-02-17, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Mr. Paddock", "MR. PADDOCK", I keep reading news stories, updates, and posts, and everyone keeps calling him "Mr." The noun "Mr." is used as a sign of respect or even honor when addressing someone from the male species. Could we just refer to this POS as "that asshole" from now on? "Mr." indeed.

I often refer to presidents as "President Obama" or "President Bush" which is even a more respectable title than Mr. Obama or Mr. Bush even though their unconstitutional foreign policies led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq, Libya, and Syria and millions of refugees. I suspect that the relatives of all those dead Arabs grieved as much as the relatives of the country music victims. I'm also ok with calling Mr. Paddock, President Obama, and President Bush "assholes".

**oladub** · October-03-17, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Mr. Paddock", "MR. PADDOCK", I keep reading news stories, updates, and posts, and everyone keeps calling him "Mr." The noun "Mr." is used as a sign of respect or even honor when addressing someone from the male species. Could we just refer to this POS as "that asshole" from now on? "Mr." indeed.

I often refer to presidents as "President Obama" or "President Bush" which is a more respectable title than Mr. Obama or Mr. Bush even though their unconstitutional foreign policies led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq, Libya, and Syria and millions of refugees. I suspect that the relatives of all those dead Arabs grieved as much as the relatives of the country music victims. While calling Mr. Paddock, President Obama, and President Bush "assholes" might be reasonable based on their actions, it is probably redundant if their actions have been mentioned.