50+killed in Las Vegas concert shooting-200+injured

[Richard]

See that is the problem,you are not in the position of asking to stay on topic,but along with the name calling and the need to feel superior to others while in a discussion,that is 6 year old school yard bully tactics.

Your view of this countries gun control is clear,you feel it is best to remove the guns and presto problem solved.

60s 70s 80s had no school shootings and a heck of a lot more powerful guns out there then the AR 15,do you know what the AR stands for?

So what has changed? When I went to school in the 70s there were trucks in the parking lot with gun racks full of weapons,nobody felt the need to grab one and shoot the place up.

So why did school shootings start in the last 10 years?

If I was going to compare anything with Canada it would be the metrics of how the school system is handled and what the differences are.

You are just looking at it is the gun,the gun did not create the violence,and you know as well as I do if a student wanted to shoot up a school in Canada they will find a gun there also,

This thread was reactived according to the recent school shooting and that was the start of that discussion,do try and follow along.

Boka Haram kidnapped another 100 schoolgirls today,ask them where they got their guns.

[jcole]

Yes, something isn't right here.

He was 33 yrs on the job with Broward County Sheriffs; don't think his "inexperience" had squat to do with it. He was the school resource officer for the department.

[Maof]

He was 33 yrs on the job with Broward County Sheriffs; don't think his "inexperience" had squat to do with it. He was the school resource officer for the department.

Yeah, I just don't get it. My first thought was there had to be something [[aside from getting killed himself) as to why he didn't do what he was trained to do.

[ABetterDetroit]

60s 70s 80s had no school shootings and a heck of a lot more powerful guns out there then the AR 15,do you know what the AR stands for?

Your knowledge and understanding of the Rifles that Kalashnikov and Stoner designed, the reasons for and more importantly what they have been refined into over the subsequent decades, and variants, has been reveled in your many post on this subject as weak at best.

I would suggest that you avoid all discussions specific to the rifles themselves, history, construction, ballistics, ammunition, velocity, selector switches, shared parts to military versions... Yep, pretty much everything on the weapons as they exist, past and present.

It's a lot like listening to somebody explain that what made the 1969 Chevelle such a popular classic car is because the engine was in the back, it was a diesel, and had front wheel drive. Repeatedly.

[Richard]

^ well it is your opinion and you know what they say about that,everybody has one.

I guess you really did not have anything of value to add other then that nonsense,adding that there were no school shootings in that time period does not need a full understanding of weapons,and the tech 9 would have been a lot easier to conceal and use.

So if you have anything of value to add to the question of what is different now verses then please feel free to share it productively.

[jcole]

Yeah, I just don't get it. My first thought was there had to be something [[aside from getting killed himself) as to why he didn't do what he was trained to do.

I know it was a huge school; 3300 kids. Maybe he was in an area where he didn't hear gunshots? But I read that he took cover behind a cement pole, so he knew what was going on. Maybe he thought the shooter was outside.

[oladub]

Freedom of speech does not include the right:

• To incite actions that would harm others [[e.g., “[S]hout[ing] ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
  Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 [[1919).
• To make or distribute obscene materials.
  Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 [[1957).
• To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
  United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 [[1968).
• To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration.
  Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 [[1988).
• Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
  Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 [[1986).
• Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
  Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ [[2007).

Three on the list have to do with schools. Most of those school children can't vote either. Children also get in trouble for talking back to their parents. Burning draft cards is an act rather than a speech. A larger issue with the draft is that conscription violates the 'involuntary servitude' clause but courts ignore that. Canada has a less extensive history of conscription than the U.S. and should be congratulated for that. Shouting 'fire' in a theater shouldn't be punished as speech if there was no fire. Shouting 'fire' could be punished for causing injuries or damage to the proprietor's business or fraud.

[Maof]

I know it was a huge school; 3300 kids. Maybe he was in an area where he didn't hear gunshots? But I read that he took cover behind a cement pole, so he knew what was going on. Maybe he thought the shooter was outside.

Just heard on the news that there were three additional Broward County deputies that remained outside the "freshman" building during the assault.

[ABetterDetroit]

Tax It.

A 4 Billion dollar a year industry that requires a Trillion dollars of protection to deal with the repercussions from it. Hardening every location in the country that people gather is not going to be cheap no matter who says that it can be. That is a fairy tale.

Law enforcement costs are exploding with having to militarize Police Departments to deal with semi-automatic rifles with quick detachable 30 round magazines in the hands of criminals and the mentally challenged.

I am sick and tired of funding the crap out of extreme left AND right ideas and paying the bill over and over. The 60% in the middle keep getting screwed and paying large sums for things they don’t even want or need.

Drag this business out of the shadows and Tax it for real.

The guys who wrote the 2nd amendment sure didn’t believe in giving away stuff for free or at nominal cost and they sure as hell were not losers looking to empower the weak minded.

Next time you gun nuts go to your next gun show look around at the people fawning over the military guns. They are 50% losers, socially screwed up misfits that couldn’t get laid in a whorehouse. Military type weapons make them feel powerful because they lose at everything else in life. Don't believe me? Then either you don't go to gun shows or are unaware of the people at them. Then of course there is the third choice...If the shoe fits, its not my fault.

Washouts. The Army and Marines have other names for them on the inside but the reality is about 10% can’t cut it because they have mental problems yet have weapons fixations. The extreme right thinks it’s a brilliant idea to let those losers live out their weapons fantasies without cutting it then send them live among women and children and have the rest of us pay the tab?. Fuck that.

https://www.thebalance.com/united-st...rition-4052608

https://www.military.com/join-armed-...-training.html

[jcole]

Just heard on the news that there were three additional Broward County deputies that remained outside the "freshman" building during the assault.

The Sheriff denies that and says they arrived after the shooting was over. The question remains, why didn't they go in and assess?

[Honky Tonk]

Tax It.

A 4 Billion dollar a year industry that requires a Trillion dollars of protection to deal with the repercussions from it. Hardening every location in the country that people gather is not going to be cheap no matter who says that it can be. That is a fairy tale.

Law enforcement costs are exploding with having to militarize Police Departments to deal with semi-automatic rifles with quick detachable 30 round magazines in the hands of criminals and the mentally challenged.

I am sick and tired of funding the crap out of extreme left AND right ideas and paying the bill over and over. The 60% in the middle keep getting screwed and paying large sums for things they don’t even want or need.

Drag this business out of the shadows and Tax it for real.

The guys who wrote the 2nd amendment sure didn’t believe in giving away stuff for free or at nominal cost and they sure as hell were not losers looking to empower the weak minded.

Next time you gun nuts go to your next gun show look around at the people fawning over the military guns. They are 50% losers, socially screwed up misfits that couldn’t get laid in a whorehouse. Military type weapons make them feel powerful because they lose at everything else in life. Don't believe me? Then either you don't go to gun shows or are unaware of the people at them. Then of course there is the third choice...If the shoe fits, its not my fault.

Washouts. The Army and Marines have other names for them on the inside but the reality is about 10% can’t cut it because they have mental problems yet have weapons fixations. The extreme right thinks it’s a brilliant idea to let those losers live out their weapons fantasies without cutting it then send them live among women and children and have the rest of us pay the tab?. Fuck that.

https://www.thebalance.com/united-st...rition-4052608

https://www.military.com/join-armed-...-training.html

I know what you mean. I'm sick of the nfl making billions, and not paying taxes.

[Canadian Visitor]

In terms of adding costs; while you can do that through taxes....

The Canadian model is that you must obtain a Possession and Acquisition licence to own a fire arm.

And Restricted Weapons license to own hand guns or any para-military type weapons.

Those licenses require to take a course, and that course costs money.

Canadian Firearms Safety Course The Canadian Firearms Safety Course [[CFSC) was developed in partnership with the provinces and territories, national organizations with an ongoing interest in firearms safety, and many firearms and hunter education course instructors from across Canada. This course was developed to meet the mandatory requirements of section 7 of the Firearms Act. The legislation stipulates that individuals wishing to acquire non-restricted firearms must take the CFSC and pass the tests.

Topics covered in the CFSC include:

• the evolution of firearms, major parts, types and actions;
• basic firearms safety practices;
• ammunition;
• operating firearm actions;
• safe handling and carry procedures;
• firing techniques and procedures;
• care of non-restricted firearms;
• responsibilities of the firearms owner/user; and
• safe storage, display, transportation and handling of non-restricted firearms.

Cost of that course is $150 and involves 8-10 hours of classroom instruction.

Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course In accordance with the Firearms Act, a new firearms safety course focusing on
restricted firearms [[primarily handguns) was developed and implemented on
February 1, 1999. The legislation stipulates that individuals wishing to acquire
restricted and/or prohibited firearms must take the Canadian Firearms Safety Course
[[CFSC) and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course [[CRFSC) and pass the
tests.

Topics covered in the CRFSC include:

• the evolution of firearms, major parts, types and actions;
• basic firearms safety practices;
• ammunition;
• operating handgun actions;
• firing techniques and procedures for handguns;
• care of restricted firearms;
• responsibilities of the firearms owner/user; and
• safe storage, display, transportation and handling of restricted firearms

Roughly same time and money as the other course.

You CAN take the 2 together for a discount, and pay only $260.

I think that does a good job of setting up some key barriers to entry.

That said, its not like one can't legally obtain a gun here, there are roughly 2,000,000 [[million) licenses.

You just have to prove you know how to safely, store, transport and use said weapon.

You also do have to pass a mandatory background check, which includes criminal, mental health, and a review of recent life history [[divorce, job loss, child custody battle); none of those are automatic denials by the way, but the police reserve the right to look into them to assure that you are not buying for the wrong reason.

[Richard]

A group of kids in school were discussing a math equation,one mentioned the little symbol that looks like a check mark with a vertical line extending out looked like a gun.

Somebody overheard the word gun and the kid was detained while a search warrant was obtained for his house in order to look for guns.

A middle class school tragedy happens and it is time to make changes but yet the inner city schools have been living under threat daily for the last 30 years nobody had a voice for change then.

Two teenagers on their way to school decide to stop and rob a father and son renovating a house,they shot and killed the father and son.

So did the gun force those teenagers into makeing the decision to rob and shoot those two?

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/...a0f87a640.html

[Richard]

Tax It.

A 4 Billion dollar a year industry that requires a Trillion dollars of protection to deal with the repercussions from it. Hardening every location in the country that people gather is not going to be cheap no matter who says that it can be. That is a fairy tale.

Law enforcement costs are exploding with having to militarize Police Departments to deal with semi-automatic rifles with quick detachable 30 round magazines in the hands of criminals and the mentally challenged.

I am sick and tired of funding the crap out of extreme left AND right ideas and paying the bill over and over. The 60% in the middle keep getting screwed and paying large sums for things they don’t even want or need.

Drag this business out of the shadows and Tax it for real.

The guys who wrote the 2nd amendment sure didn’t believe in giving away stuff for free or at nominal cost and they sure as hell were not losers looking to empower the weak minded.

Next time you gun nuts go to your next gun show look around at the people fawning over the military guns. They are 50% losers, socially screwed up misfits that couldn’t get laid in a whorehouse. Military type weapons make them feel powerful because they lose at everything else in life. Don't believe me? Then either you don't go to gun shows or are unaware of the people at them. Then of course there is the third choice...If the shoe fits, its not my fault.

Washouts. The Army and Marines have other names for them on the inside but the reality is about 10% can’t cut it because they have mental problems yet have weapons fixations. The extreme right thinks it’s a brilliant idea to let those losers live out their weapons fantasies without cutting it then send them live among women and children and have the rest of us pay the tab?. Fuck that.

https://www.thebalance.com/united-st...rition-4052608

https://www.military.com/join-armed-...-training.html

I am trying to figure out if you are tripping,6 years old,or just plain shot out.

How do you know the physiological breakdown of a gun show patron unless you attend every gun show ? Which would place you into your own profile.

How do you even know the criteria for getting laid in a whorehouse ?

Did they reject you for some reason? From what I have heard is all it takes is money,they do not care about your history or if you are a social misfit or not.

I went to the flea market this morning and then from there I went to the gun show,lots of nice sexy guns advailable there,even a little Betty Boop with matching six shooters,that should push you over the edge now,Hugh.

[canuck]

Gunz'r Fun.

[Richard]

Different people are into different things,some cannot fathom how somebody can enjoy shooting targets just as I cannot fathom sitting there watching a bunch of guys slamming into each other chasing a football.

4800 suicides from ages 8 to 18 from school bullying and cyber bullying,an anti bullying campaign was launched but yet it continues.

Everyday people are killed or killing others while texting and driving,want to guess the age group that dominates that arena?

Everyday people in cars run over pedestrians and those on bicycles and kill them.

People kill with cars all the time and cars have been regulated so much that even the safety devices are killing people.

But getting rid of guns is going to solve that.

First thing is to attack all gun owners,fair enough,all students are bullies that cause others to commit suicide.So let's now punish all students.

If we are going to have a agenda let's do it right.

The sheriff of broward county is under attack for not doing enough during the 29 calls,what they are not telling you is some of those calls went to Palm Beach county PD,so why no attacks there,be careful when we hear things without understanding the politics involved.

We also have scrutinized the LEO to the point where we are questioning every move they make,if they had 29 calls and could do nothing according to the laws should they have been able to bend the laws?

If we say yes then we are opening the door a have to except it across the board and not only when we feel it is right.

If somebody calls in and says to LEO,I think this guy is going to be a school shooter should LEO be able to go and arrest somebody on that alone?

Can you imagine where that would go? Somebody pisses you off so you make a phone call and they get arrested on your word alone.

Guns and an easy target without having to look at where we're are at in society and the amount of violence they are subject to daily.

Miss Jenner posts on snap chat that she is done with snap chat,their stock plunged 50% at a loss of 1.6 billion,and we have a gun problem?

[bust]

Gunz'r Fun.

And "sexy" too.
Troubled 14 year old boys think guns are sexy.
They can be forgiven. Most of them don't get the right kind of attention at home.
Hard to forgive the adults though.

[bust]

Just gonna put this here.

[Richard]

^ notice how teaching the child that we do not hit others with sticks and if we do there will be consequences for the actions,was not one of the choices.

Or dope the kid up so he or she does not have the ability to hit others with a stick.

Reminds me of years ago when my daughter was 8,she was throwing rocks at her brother,I told her to stop,she threw another and then I told her if she threw another I was going to spank her but.

Her reply was if I spanked her she was going to call child protection and have me arrested.

Of course she already knew that there was no way she could have run to the phone that fast.

When I went to school you respected the teachers,fellow students and adults and you knew full well if you crossed that line there would be consequences there was no such thing as safe spaces and time outs,schools were not day care centers.

Maybe we should take a lesson from the Catholics and put nuns with rulers in every school.

[canuck]

^
Arming teachers with guns seems like a perfectly logical response to control harmful occurrences and eliminate disrespect toward authority figures. Sticks and rulers in the hands of a nun cannot provide the sort of protection that a firearm would.

Some children have fond recollections of teachers in positions of authority.

Some other have been fondled by same.

In the event schools become a refuge for firearmed educators, there should naturally result limited attempts at the freedom of speech Canadians so deplore from U.S. children.

Despite the fact that the leaders of these towns dispute the theory of Evolution and are more likely creationists, they probably think the laws they enact are a part of natural evolution toward more guns since their faith in humanity is belittled by their concurrent Love and respect for duh Creator.

[Richard]

The question becomes will a few armed teachers deter a potential shooter to the point where they will not even have to draw?

Even 3 trained teachers would be able to raise doubt in ones mind of chances of success.

Kids know the schools and patterns if they trained a few teachers such as an Air Marshal and nobody knew who they were,maybe that would be enough of a deterrent.

Sense it has become socially exceptable to be violent in public for social media fame,maybe we need to look at different methods.

It is your right not to like guns.
It is your choice not to believe in God.

When somebody kicks in your front door you will be doing two things.
Calling somebody with a gun for help.
Praying that they will get there in time.

[ABetterDetroit]

And "sexy" too.
Troubled 14 year old boys think guns are sexy.
They can be forgiven. Most of them don't get the right kind of attention at home.
Hard to forgive the adults though.

I have heard things are going well in NYC, not so good here unfortunately.

Quadruple homicide in Detroit this morning. Prior illegal gun convictions being reported at this time for the perpetrator as is far to often the case here in Michigan.

Reducing gun deaths is going to require a multi pronged solution. Committing gun crimes has to be well known as a sure fire way to a very long prison sentence, especially to the young if anything is to change.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ing/372730002/

[Richard]

^ the extended sentence for useing a gun in a felony has been tried already.

Californias extended sentencing just expired or was repealed,pushed by a democrat senator and the ACLU.

https://www.southerncaliforniadefens...gun-crime.html

Florida used to have a 25 year extension over and above the original felony,it does not seem to be a deterrent.

The problem is if somebody is at the point where they are going to use a gun to cause harm they are not worried about the consequences.

Even though I do not feel that removing as many guns as possible from society is the fix all solution ,I agree it should be a multi faceted approach,I think kids in school now days are under a lot more pressure and stress then when I went to school,more single parent households that are able to spend less time with the children and a mental health system that is off of the chain.

But I also do not think we really need to promote the violence so much in music,movies and games and the kids really need some good role models not some pumped up fantasy movie star or rapper etc.

I do not think there is much we can do for the adults other then mental health care but the future generations are the children that are here now,the schools are where they spend most of their time and are most influenced by what is happening there,while we are working on protecting them we also need to be giving them more social skills and on how to treat others and how to get along with others with out the flash anger aspect.

Or the basics,we cannot continue down the same road with picking innate objects for instant gratification,it may work for a few months but it is not solving the real issiues.

[bust]

Going to leave this here too.

Watch an undercover video wherein a 13 year old in Virginia tries to buy beer, cigarettes, a nudie mag, and a lottery ticket, and is refused every time. Then he goes to a gun show and has absolutely no trouble buying a rifle on his first try.

I agree there's far too much violence in movies and games today. But that's not the problem. Kids see the same crap in the U.K., Ireland, Portugal, etc. too.

And it isn't just a mental health issue. It isn't just poor discipline. It isn't "a problem with young people today". It isn't bad policing. It's not a failure to enforce our existing laws.

By far, the central problem: It's too easy to buy a gun.



Video shows 13-year-old buy a gun on first try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB7MwvqCtlk

[Richard]

That went around on Facebook also,he did not do anything illegal,he went to a gun show and was a private party purchasing from a private party.

The gun show loophole has been a discussion for a long time,but is really no different then buying a gun off of Craigslist.

But each state is different,this was in Virginia and he bought a 22 cal rifle which is tough to kill a possum with.

A lot of rural ereas and farming communities it is not uncommon for a 12 year old to receive his first gun on Christmas because hunting and shooting are a big part of that way of life.

Some States you can join the military and shoot all kinds of things that go bang at age 18 but come home and you have to wait until your 21,yes it is more difficult to legally purchase firearms and most only allow single shot long guns,but then again the bad guys still carry and those countries were rolled through in a matter of hours in a war senairo.

You can say that will never happen here but you see cities that destroy and burn just from winning a football game,so all it takes is a little chaos and that is it.

You do not see even 1/3 of the school shenanigans on YouTube out of the U.K. Or Holland etc. we encourage a culture of violence where it has become cool.