Welcome to Bernie/Independent/Third Party Land

[Pam]

Some big primary wins by "Berniecrats" this week .

https://ourrevolution.com/press/our-...us-and-others/

[GMan]

Some big primary wins by "Berniecrats" this week .

https://ourrevolution.com/press/our-...us-and-others/

It's funny that their mission goals list some of the things Trump is trying to address; [[ Reversing Nafta, building infrastructure, bringing jobs back from overseas i.e.) all admirable, but then they want to give free tuition to all, make it easier to unionize the workforce, more paid time off, break up the big corporations and oh yeah, aggressively tax the same big corporations.
it's a Socialist agenda that benefits no one in the end.

" I want my Money for nothing and my chicks for free..." D.S.

[Pam]

It's funny that their mission goals list some of the things Trump is trying to address; [[ Reversing Nafta, building infrastructure, bringing jobs back from overseas i.e.) all admirable, but then they want to give free tuition to all, make it easier to unionize the workforce, more paid time off, break up the big corporations and oh yeah, aggressively tax the same big corporations.
it's a Socialist agenda that benefits no one in the end.

" I want my Money for nothing and my chicks for free..." D.S.

Money for nothing is what we have now. We're paying taxes to support the bloated defense budget and getting nothing in return. Why can't we spend something on healthcare, schools and infrastructure instead? Other countries do these things, why can't we?

[TKshreve]

It's funny that their mission goals list some of the things Trump is trying to address; [[ Reversing Nafta, building infrastructure, bringing jobs back from overseas i.e.) all admirable, but then they want to give free tuition to all, make it easier to unionize the workforce, more paid time off, break up the big corporations and oh yeah, aggressively tax the same big corporations.
it's a Socialist agenda that benefits no one in the end.

" I want my Money for nothing and my chicks for free..." D.S.

Yet economists and statisticians continue to prove that curbing the giant boondoggle of defense spending, perheps coupled with reversing the wasteful tax cuts given to the 1% in this country, make those aforementioned benefits viable.

Meanwhile... the national debt just eclipsed $21 trillion under Trumps watch. And yet we hear only crickets from the right, when they were the loudest proponents towards curbing gov't spending during, well... any of the last democrats tenure in office. What happened to all the outrage? Don't answer that - we all know what hypocrisy is at this point.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-d...rst-time-ever/

I'm all for infrastructure spending. It provides jobs and makes our country great. Every president soap boxes on it, but that's typically the last you hear of it. And the gov't crony contracts continue to roll out instead.

One thing you'll get from Bernie [[and his party) is consistency. He says what he means, and means what he thinks. You simply can not find that common decency in any other party or candidate anymore. Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

[Jimaz]

... Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

They should be grateful that tarring and feathering has not yet come back into fashion.

[Richard]

Money for nothing is what we have now. We're paying taxes to support the bloated defense budget and getting nothing in return. Why can't we spend something on healthcare, schools and infrastructure instead? Other countries do these things, why can't we?

Actually the current administration for the last year has been working and getting ready to implement the combining of the department of labor with the department of education.

It did not cost anything and nobody has to offer free collage,which is not actually free,only the opportunity for collage grads to be able to apply their skills when graduating with experience and into a market of their training.

That is giving people the ability and chance without the everything for free promise,I think that is what most want more then the empty promise of free then being dumped into the streets with a piece of meaningless paper.

The biggest socialist countries in to world would love for us to defund the military,it makes their goals achievable.

[Richard]

Yet economists and statisticians continue to prove that curbing the giant boondoggle of defense spending, perheps coupled with reversing the wasteful tax cuts given to the 1% in this country, make those aforementioned benefits viable.

Meanwhile... the national debt just eclipsed $21 trillion under Trumps watch. And yet we hear only crickets from the right, when they were the loudest proponents towards curbing gov't spending during, well... any of the last democrats tenure in office. What happened to all the outrage? Don't answer that - we all know what hypocrisy is at this point.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-d...rst-time-ever/

I'm all for infrastructure spending. It provides jobs and makes our country great. Every president soap boxes on it, but that's typically the last you hear of it. And the gov't crony contracts continue to roll out instead.

One thing you'll get from Bernie [[and his party) is consistency. He says what he means, and means what he thinks. You simply can not find that common decency in any other party or candidate anymore. Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

I think Bernie speaks from the heart and has good intentions but as par to the course it is easy to soapbox free,but what are his solutions outside of funding the military and forcing private corporations to pay everybody equally,it is just not going to happen without going socialist,all of those decades in office and outside of the socialist party,he is still where he was 40 years ago,there is a reason why that is.

Nobody is holding a gun to the head of those berating public officials in public,they are supposed to be adults and responsible for their actions.

It is their decision to show the true colors of those who do not get their way,it does not say anything about the current president,it just shows how most feel they are not accountable for their personal actions.

If you want to act like a idiot in public,that is on you,at least man up or woman up and not point and cry...He made me do it.

[TKshreve]

I think Bernie speaks from the heart and has good intentions but as par to the course it is easy to soapbox free,but what are his solutions outside of funding the military and forcing private corporations to pay everybody equally,it is just not going to happen without going socialist,all of those decades in office and outside of the socialist party,he is still where he was 40 years ago,there is a reason why that is.

Nobody is holding a gun to the head of those berating public officials in public,they are supposed to be adults and responsible for their actions.

It is their decision to show the true colors of those who do not get their way,it does not say anything about the current president,it just shows how most feel they are not accountable for their personal actions.

If you want to act like a idiot in public,that is on you,at least man up or woman up and not point and cry...He made me do it.

If we had things your way, we'd still be a colony of England. Very forward thinking of you. Your complacency is so tiring.

[GMan]

Yet economists and statisticians continue to prove that curbing the giant boondoggle of defense spending, perheps coupled with reversing the wasteful tax cuts given to the 1% in this country, make those aforementioned benefits viable.

Meanwhile... the national debt just eclipsed $21 trillion under Trumps watch. And yet we hear only crickets from the right, when they were the loudest proponents towards curbing gov't spending during, well... any of the last democrats tenure in office. What happened to all the outrage? Don't answer that - we all know what hypocrisy is at this point.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-d...rst-time-ever/

I'm all for infrastructure spending. It provides jobs and makes our country great. Every president soap boxes on it, but that's typically the last you hear of it. And the gov't crony contracts continue to roll out instead.

One thing you'll get from Bernie [[and his party) is consistency. He says what he means, and means what he thinks. You simply can not find that common decency in any other party or candidate anymore. Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

Yes get rid of the boondoggle of spending but not the military.
There is much wasteful spending but the left only eliminates it from the military so they can waste it on their own pet projects.
[[free college for all for example.) What will be the payback when all the students graduate with four year degrees and there are no jobs?
Today's students graduate with massive debt and then complain about the low income they can earn. Some expect 6 figures right out of school but the job market doesn't support this. The whole educational system is a business that needs to be re-structured. Investment should be in skilled trades jobs that can be achieved by people that want to work now. There is always a way for people who want more to go back to school and get another degree.

Infrastructure spending is needed but not on high price pet projects like high speed rail that gobbles up millions before a mile of track is laid, Green energy that can't support itself without a huge subsidy or expanded highways that are lobbied for by the contractors that get the government contract and then give us substandard surfaces that look pretty but don't last more than 3yrs.

Bernie is politician like the rest. Full of promises, short on substance and wealthy like his ilk.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes, Bernie promises alot and a shift of wealth from the click-and-tick to his audience. Only problem is that the same people remain rich and and wealthy!

[Richard]

If we had things your way, we'd still be a colony of England. Very forward thinking of you. Your complacency is so tiring.

I know,you just cannot stand those capitalist pigs, hugh

It is not about things my way,it is about the country as a whole,which makes it clear they really are not about the socialist agenda,less then,what, 5% at best out of 325 million.

[Richard]

^^^ Yes, Bernie promises alot and a shift of wealth from the click-and-tick to his audience. Only problem is that the same people remain rich and and wealthy!

For some reason I do not see Bernie giving up his wealth and actually walking the talk as they say,I guess you really do not have to,just convince others it is,in thier best interest to for the greater good.

[Jimaz]

What Is Bernie Sanders' Net Worth? Bernie Sanders is one of America's poorest senators.

[Pam]

What Is Bernie Sanders' Net Worth? Bernie Sanders is one of America's poorest senators.

Thanks Jim.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...rkers-and-ceos-

Sen. Bernie Sanders [[I-Vt.) will host a livestreamed town hall Monday, July 16 to address the enormous disparity between the wealth of corporate executives and the wages and treatment of the companies’ workers. Sanders will be joined by workers from major U.S. corporations Amazon, Disney, McDonald’s and Walmart, and he has invited the CEO of each company to attend.....
"I hope these CEOs have the guts to sit on a panel with their own employees and explain why it's acceptable that they receive huge compensation packages while their very own workers are struggling to put food on the table," Sanders said. "I hope they have the courage to do so. The invitation is sincere."

In letters to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, Disney CEO Bob Iger, McDonald’s CEO Steve Easterbrook and Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, Sanders recounted testimonials from workers at each company who have struggled with issues like affording health care, being injured on the job, eviction and hunger as a result of low pay, difficult working conditions and lack of opportunity.

[Jimaz]

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...rkers-and-ceos-

Link repair:

Sanders to Host Live Town Hall with Workers and CEOs

The trailing hyphen in the URL broke the link.

[Pam]

Link repair:

Sanders to Host Live Town Hall with Workers and CEOs

The trailing hyphen in the URL broke the link.

Thanks again.

[oladub]

Bernie seems more honest, supports fewer wars, and isn't as closely tied to corporate interests as establishment Democrats. He should at least get credit for so many Democrats being honest enough to come out as socialists. His supporter, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortex, had a big primary victory over an establishment Democrat. Chuck Todd of NBC asked her for her definition of 'socialism'.
Her answer: "Well, for me, again, and – and – there’s so much focus on this endorsement, but I also think it's important -- an important part of my strategy in winning was building a broad-based coalition of people. So while there is a focus on this one aspect of the coalition, and to me, you know, to answer your question, the definition of democratic socialism, to me, again, is the fact that in a modern, moral, and wealthy society, no American should be too poor to live."

[TKshreve]

To assume that Bernie Sanders would need to disassociate from his earned and inherited wealth in order to support his message is a straw man all day. It is spin in its worst sense.

Not to mention the additional info above suggesting Sanders is not the tycoon that the right continues to push as their only contradicting message.

It's a sad road the right keeps travelling down when this situation continues to revert to this conversation, opposed to what should really be the central tenant of the discussion.

[Richard]

It has nothing to do with right,left or center or straw men,he is enjoying the very perks of capitalism that he campaigns against.

Warren Buffet a billionaire that campaigns for smart investmenting,lives in the same ranch house that he purchased over 50 years ago.

Some walk and some talk.

The mistake is thinking people are against Bernie,when they are not,this country is not now or will ever be a socialist country.It does not take a straw man to figure that out.

Interesting view on protesting against large corporations and looking for equality in pay from the top down,they are the ones providing employment.

Do the protesters form a group and invest thier money start a business and pay everybody equally,they can but they do not,why is that?

That would be common sense instead of a few million trying to convert an entire country to thier views.

Edited: Sweden is often used as an example of how things should work in a perfect world,but maybe not so much.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-welfare-state

Nationalists are gaining support as more people complain about the sustainability of the cradle-to-grave system.

[Pam]

Discussion of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez appearance on CNN.



https://youtu.be/eVqLkxvGQTE

[Jimaz]

Discussion of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez appearance on CNN.

https://youtu.be/eVqLkxvGQTE

Watch her opponent blink and gulp. LOL!

[Bham1982]

It has nothing to do with right,left or center or straw men,he is enjoying the very perks of capitalism that he campaigns against.

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

[Richard]

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

I am not sure where you are getting your information from on Trump supporters but there are plenty of surveys out there that would disagree with you.


https://www.businessinsider.com/exit...linton-2016-11

Your pov of a vote for Trump was families saying that their families do not deserve anything kinda shows a strange outlook on life in America.

What exactly do you feel you deserve because you were born or fortunate enough to be in America?

We have rights and opportunities in this country that others risk death to have a chance at but we do not deserve anything for simply existing.

When you actually research what is happing in the developed world when it comes to social programs,immigration and other things anti Trump supporters are constantly being vocal about you will find they are all pretty much in the same direction that he is.

Even more so they are all struggling with the common denominator of figuring out how to pay for it all.

[Pam]

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

Actually there is wide support for Bernie's ideas. He could have won if the DNC hadn't cheated. He also could have beat Trump.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-left-policies

[Bham1982]

Actually there is wide support for Bernie's ideas. He could have won if the DNC hadn't cheated. He also could have beat Trump.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-left-policies

No one claimed there wasn't "wide support for Bernie's ideas", the DNC didn't "cheat", obviously, Hillary beat Bernie by a wide margin, and no one knows if Bernie would have beaten Trump [[I suspect no - if Bernie were the candidate Trump would have painted him as a Commie and the cult would have stayed faithful).