Welcome to Bernie/Independent/Third Party Land

[Pam]

NYT coverage of Bernie is biased. What a shock.

https://fair.org/home/sidney-embers-secret-sources/

[Richard]

After watching the Miami sideshow it is clear that in 2016 Bernie was a stand-alone as of now he is another one in the crowd with his age and past experiences that can be used against him.

The younger ones are starting out with a clean slate and most are just getting thier feet wet and look at this as a start of thier political career.

The whole concept of buisness and politics intermingling will never end,politics is power it needs money to feed it,it cost a lot of money to campaign on a countrywide scale.

The ones that gripe me is like Kamala Harris,she likes to talk a good game but her past history proves her wrong,she campaigns for prison reform but when she was AG in California and a prosecutor her view was,when I put you in prison you will stay there and she did everything in her power to undermine project innocence and refused to except any evidence that proved otherwise.

It is still early yet and a lot of the irrelevant wakos will fall by the wayside,the DNC will make sure they will because the only thing they will accomplish is the watering down of votes to thier selective candidate.

I do not agree with Bernie but I think he deserves the same chance as anybody else,I still think at this point the majority of the country not on thier soapbox’s are not ready for the socialist way of life,it is just not who we are.

Politics is a dirty game and people will always find a way to find the dirt and use it to suit thier agenda.

[pjbear05]

Who’s gonna waste 1 hour 14 minutes of their Sunday watching socialist crap?

I lived under the rule of one Commie for over 10 years, and that was 10 years plus too many.

You may have heard of him.

A degenerate named Coleman.

[Jimaz]

Why Are Young Americans Embracing Socialism? | The Daily Show

Jaboukie Young-White talks to young people and Senator Bernie Sanders to find out why socialism isn’t the taboo it once was.

[Zacha341]

Peer pressure is incredible. And [[ironically) socialism has always needed the youth the get the OLD folks together. So that effort is part of the process.

Many young people embracing socialism with beaming glee is due partly to not having a full understanding of it, historically.

Most evaluations of socialism are summed up as Fox-snewsy/ Brigt-barty [[old white racist men). Simplistically, socialism, sans looking around the corner to examine the full weight is touted as the grand repudiation against Trump. Yes to that!

That's often enough for the young newly far left especially. Reasonably so. What young person wants to be on the wrong side of that morality?

Some dolt, hater in some stuffy republican right-winged college club [[oh the horrors - no to that!).

I get the general frustration looking at the mix-economy social order played out here in the US. So no. You're not going to get the rah-rah 'perfect capitalism' talk from me. Nor the perfect socialist utopia model as alternative.

I am not crossing any street of politics without looking both ways.

The indoctrination in part is positing that evil and greed is ascribe to one group, and the more that group/ politic is compounded, the better to silence as per the desired moral code!

So yes IMO, relative too many young people, they're not getting the full picture educationally, or from the politicians. Too often their look-back is constrained to about a 25 year range, tops.

Bernie on the other hand KNOWS better [[he has his own identity baggage largess), as do in some who've immigrated here, leaving behind varied outworkings of socialist systems.

Talking to a recent immigrant woman from China it was revealing to me her incredulity at our 'walk-back' into very systems and values she was fortunate to leave behind.

Additionally, having been 'handled' by everyone, seemingly, I'm finding more black people questioning how we'll now be pandered to under the new boss of socialism!!----

Withstanding the almost too-good-to-be true PROMISES?

And no, we're certainly not all old or republican!

SO nope, it's not JUST grumpy old white men [[drats on messing that all up) questioning socialism as that youtube suggests.

But the grass is always greener... and so we proceed.

[oladub]

Why Are Young Americans Embracing Socialism?

The hope of free stuff is a contributing factor. Hey, now I can major in something with no job prospects at a cushy private college and get paid for hanging out there because the government will pay for my tuition or loan. Cool. MTV and some educators, not all, do their share of indoctrination along the way. There are also fewer summer jobs available for students so they have to be more dependent on government largess. Imagine living in a world in which one can graduate from college without ever having a job, a nasty boss or tuition bills. Next stop - apply for taxpayer subsidized "affordable housing" because my art history degree with a --- studies minor and barista job doesn't pay the bills.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Oh yeah the FREE stuff... when you really worked you get that free is off your vertebrae ala taxing and sacrifice. Some of the very young [[and self-indulgent socially delayed older folk) don't get that!

But they will vote your income into their pockets.

You're a hater if you but complain a bit. There will be no dissent under the new tolerance and freedom. NONE!

[Honky Tonk]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

Author Unknown

[oladub]

“The lessons of history, show conclusively that continued dependency upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber.” -FDR 1935

Since I never came across this quote before and it was too good to be true, I did a brief Google search to see if Snopes or someone called it a hoax. I couldn't find anything suggesting it was a hoax and the Wall Street Journal used this quote. Assuming the FDR quote is accurate, it is an profound inditement against today's Democratic Party which has since changed its course. Promised handouts to suburban college students have replaced jobs given their great grandfathers that built the Grand Coulee dam.

[canuck]

Well, if half of all your tax money goes turd the military and weapons of mass demolition, it dont leave much room fer band-aids and cough syrup.

[Pam]

Well, if half of all your tax money goes turd the military and weapons of mass demolition, it dont leave much room fer band-aids and cough syrup.

Yes, right now we are paying and getting nothing. It's not "free stuff" it's getting something back for your tax money.

[canuck]

The hope of free stuff is a contributing factor. Hey, now I can major in something with no job prospects at a cushy private college and get paid for hanging out there because the government will pay for my tuition or loan. Cool. MTV and some educators, not all, do their share of indoctrination along the way. There are also fewer summer jobs available for students so they have to be more dependent on government largess. Imagine living in a world in which one can graduate from college without ever having a job, a nasty boss or tuition bills. Next stop - apply for taxpayer subsidized "affordable housing" because my art history degree with a --- studies minor and barista job doesn't pay the bills.

You can imagine all sorts of negative effects from cheaper tuition, but you can also look at it as a deserved opportunity. What country on earth has the resources to effect this change better that the US?

It's such a puzzle to try to figure out how this erosion of social conscience on matters of healthcare and education.

I'll post a link to this speech given by Chris Hedges in 2011 at the U of Toronto. Notice how few views this has gotten. Oh well.

https://youtu.be/NNrDej7aXMs

[Zacha341]

Yes, that is an additional problem, not an either/ or. Additional.

And there are other siphoning pulling our taxes.

A sound military in case of need is one thing.

Going forward with choices made from the military industrial complex is something else. We see how things go out of hand with the last three presidents [[especially Bush) and yet there are those defending Trump at every turn re. our military.

Not me.

Well, if half of all your tax money goes turd the military and weapons of mass demolition, it dont leave much room fer band-aids and cough syrup.

[oladub]

You can imagine all sorts of negative effects from cheaper tuition, but you can also look at it as a deserved opportunity. What country on earth has the resources to effect this change better that the US?

It's such a puzzle to try to figure out how this erosion of social conscience on matters of healthcare and education.

I'm not against cheaper tuition. Midwest states had, and still have land grant colleges offering cheaper tuition because those states paid for a part of tuition expenses. Over the last couple of decades, the percentage of tuition paid for by states has decreased. That seems a better way of cutting college costs across the board than some now being offered. It is, for one thing, consistent with the 10th. Amendment. Educational free stuff offered by Democratic presidential candidates is not.

It is incredulous that Democrats are proposing paying off huge student debts agreed to by former students. This mocks contract law, punishes those who paid off their student loans, and encourages non-payments. Why should workers who felt they couldn't afford college have to pay off the loans of their better paid deadbeat bosses with degrees? The Democratic Party used to side with workers.

I can think of a couple of federal government tuition grants that would comply with the 10th. Amendment however. The military has long used the offer of paying for active and inactive military members tuition as part of their pay package. Also, when the defense of the United States is threatened, tuition assistance could be provided to physics majors or whatever to shore up that deficiency. That's how Eisenhower justified paying for the interstate highway system.

Democrats have also messed up students by taking away their summer student jobs and giving many of them to non-citizens, and fouling up the college loan system. North Dakota used to provide free interest on North Dakotans' student loans but Obama messed that up. I think that replacing student jobs with handouts infantilizes young people and denies them job experience which brings us back to the FDR quote in post #159.

Also, somehow lost in this discussion is the concept of educational meritocracy and societal need vs. political handouts.

[Richard]

Well, if half of all your tax money goes turd the military and weapons of mass demolition, it dont leave much room fer band-aids and cough syrup.

Pick up Canada and drop it in between Iran and Pakistan,can you protect yourself without calling for help?

The 3 military superpowers are the US,China and Russia [[Kinda)

It is easy for countries to tell the United States how to run thier countries military spending but when the SHTF who do they look to?

When you look at Asian and European countries they live in the real fear of how to protect themselves from aggression,you do not hear them trying to tell us how we should fund our military,Poland offered to build a billion dollar base for us to have more of a presence in thier country for the security.

What if we said , hey we will not help protect Canada anymore and will not intervene with our evil military so if anybody feels like they want it,have at it.

Who ya gonna call when Russia or China comes knocking,heck the French for that matter?

You guys cannot even feed you school children and your free health care is a mess no matter how many taxes you throw at it.

Show me one country with universal health care that does not cost the taxpayers billions with dismal results at best.

The US should follow suit by changing one screwed up system for another ?

I am sure the government is very capable of running a universal healthcare system in this country cough cough.

Also compare providing healthcare for 325 million verses all of the countries with 20 to 30 million citizens crammed into 6 sqft.

The logistics alone makes it not feasible.

[canuck]

The logistics of building and maintaining, manning and refurbishing 12 Nimitz class carriers, and dozens of nuke subs, and all the rest of it is a fairly easy task, I agree. It beats health care, and education.

As far as Canadian school children going hungry, I just want you to take a good look at the ton of desperate people in your country right now who have given up on hope because no matter how many meal tickets they use, their meager circumstances drive them to drug addiction and utter dereliction. If you nix the possibility of raising yourself or your kids out of misery, you begin to make self destructive choices. I think Canada has a lot less misery and violence because my peers have chosen a stronger system of care for the entire nation to profit by.

Canadian parents are superlatively apt at feeding their children because there is less of a strain on their finances from across the board social netting. The higher studies schools are cheap relative to the US, and with a flick of a card, you can access top notch care in some of the best hospitals in the world. None of this five thousand dollar catheter charge that the cynics have made you swally; hook line and sinker. Poor you.

Of course, if you look at it macchiavelically, it would be better for the powers that be in Canada to rely on a lot of poorer folk to be used as cannon fodder in the armed forces.

Look at Chump's boosting of the military budget as another little nudge to the swamp draining you seem to have forgotten about. Lol.

[Honky Tonk]

The logistics of building and maintaining, manning and refurbishing 12 Nimitz class carriers, and dozens of nuke subs, and all the rest of it is a fairly easy task, I agree. It beats health care, and education.

As far as Canadian school children going hungry, I just want you to take a good look at the ton of desperate people in your country right now who have given up on hope because no matter how many meal tickets they use, their meager circumstances drive them to drug addiction and utter dereliction. If you nix the possibility of raising yourself or your kids out of misery, you begin to make self destructive choices. I think Canada has a lot less misery and violence because my peers have chosen a stronger system of care for the entire nation to profit by.

Canadian parents are superlatively apt at feeding their children because there is less of a strain on their finances from across the board social netting. The higher studies schools are cheap relative to the US, and with a flick of a card, you can access top notch care in some of the best hospitals in the world. None of this five thousand dollar catheter charge that the cynics have made you swally; hook line and sinker. Poor you.

Of course, if you look at it macchiavelically, it would be better for the powers that be in Canada to rely on a lot of poorer folk to be used as cannon fodder in the armed forces.

Look at Chump's boosting of the military budget as another little nudge to the swamp draining you seem to have forgotten about. Lol.

Another reason for our imbalance could be the high tariffs CA imposes on US imports. Yes, our helicopters actually lift off the ground, which costs money. Don't worry though, if the shit hits the fan, we'll be there to cover your's, and true-d'ohs, butt. Nice to see Canadian children are finally getting good quality US milk and cheese.

[canuck]

Another reason for our imbalance could be the high tariffs CA imposes on US imports. Yes, our helicopters actually lift off the ground, which costs money. Don't worry though, if the shit hits the fan, we'll be there to cover your's, and true-d'ohs, butt. Nice to see Canadian children are finally getting good quality US milk and cheese.

There's enough milk and cheese to go around already. Just tell California to keep on sending us oranges and walnuts, lettuce and wine.

[Honky Tonk]

There's enough milk and cheese to go around already. Just tell California to keep on sending us oranges and walnuts, lettuce and wine.

I hope California can continue to do so. Lettuce pray.

[Richard]

The logistics of building and maintaining, manning and refurbishing 12 Nimitz class carriers, and dozens of nuke subs, and all the rest of it is a fairly easy task, I agree. It beats health care, and education.

As far as Canadian school children going hungry, I just want you to take a good look at the ton of desperate people in your country right now who have given up on hope because no matter how many meal tickets they use, their meager circumstances drive them to drug addiction and utter dereliction. If you nix the possibility of raising yourself or your kids out of misery, you begin to make self destructive choices. I think Canada has a lot less misery and violence because my peers have chosen a stronger system of care for the entire nation to profit by.

Canadian parents are superlatively apt at feeding their children because there is less of a strain on their finances from across the board social netting. The higher studies schools are cheap relative to the US, and with a flick of a card, you can access top notch care in some of the best hospitals in the world. None of this five thousand dollar catheter charge that the cynics have made you swally; hook line and sinker. Poor you.

Of course, if you look at it macchiavelically, it would be better for the powers that be in Canada to rely on a lot of poorer folk to be used as cannon fodder in the armed forces.

Look at Chump's boosting of the military budget as another little nudge to the swamp draining you seem to have forgotten about. Lol.

We could in the past have sent you from Florida, enough orange juice to take a bath in,but now you have to look to Brazil for that.

Ross Perot passed,his words regarding NAFTA were,That giant sucking sound you hear is the American jobs leaving the country.

We can feed the world but yet thousands of farms lay fallow.
We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world but yet some who need it do not have access to it.

We spend billions on illegal immigration while millions sleep in the streets.

We beg for $15 per hour jobs because we decided to settle for less.

We complain about the lack of good paying jobs while spending billions on cheap imported crap that could be produced in this country,providing jobs.

I could go on but Trump is not the problem,WE are the problem,President Trump is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing,put this country first and foremost.

People like to use Sweden and Denmark as examples of how a society should be but if they dig deeper they will find that tide is changing.

People no longer have the attitude of the past and the free stuff has overpowered the will to produce.

That is the political excuse,instead of facing the reality and dealing with what needs to be done thier only option and easiest option is to offer free stuff.

Then comes the blame game,it’s everybody else’s fault,military spending is the easiest to attack because the adverage American has never lived in a country that got stormed over in a day and had to live under the threat of comply or die.

They are not living in the Cameron of today and being slaughtered simply for the language that they speak.

We are the people and those choices that we make are the ones we live with and can blame nobody but ourselves.

Politicians are either really smart or we are really dumb to be begging for $15 per hour jobs,it shows how beaten down people are in order to except so little in life and view that as a win.

They vote people in that convince you to settle for less so they can be the savior when they give you a little more.

Untill the American people stop settling for less we are going to continue to be in a race to the bottom and blame everybody and everything else for our problems.

Has the current president ever asked the people of this country to settle for less or has his mantra been to level the playing field so we do not have to settle for less out of desperation?

The rest of the country needs to take a hard look at Detroit because that is the very definition of who we are as Americans and what can be accomplished when we choose to not settle for less.

Sadly we have a history as a country of waiting until our back is up against the wall before we come out fighting but we also have a history that proves what we can accomplish when we do.

[canuck]

Good Luck with a president whose idea of solidarity with his people is firing apprentices and building failed casinos to suck you dry. So much for reality, and a hefty part of delusion.

[Zacha341]

What? You find that lack of priorities a problem?

We spend billions on illegal immigration while millions sleep in the streets.

[Richard]

Good Luck with a president whose idea of solidarity with his people is firing apprentices and building failed casinos to suck you dry. So much for reality, and a hefty part of delusion.

Prime example of excuses are like ...... everybody has one.

What exactly does his past have to do with what he is providing now?

Millions of Americans have filed bankruptcy and lost buisnesss,Atlantic city is almost devoid of the multiple casinos they once had,the only thing it says is casinos are not the answer to our woes.

Casinos and lottery are tools to provide false hope instead of facing the reality.

People are confused because he is actually doing what he said he was going to do,they have a hard time dealing with it.

I have seen more minority start ups in the last two years then I saw in the total 8 years of hope and change,he must be doing something right.

But that is what pisses people off the most,because deep inside they see he is producing results and they cannot stand that.

[Richard]

What? You find that lack of priorities a problem?

Fake compassion burns me the most,how can one step on thier fellow Americans in order to help somebody else first,they use the whole it’s who we are as Americans,but it is not who we are.

[Pam]

Interview with Bernie campaign co-chair Nina Turner.

https://youtu.be/a8DsDs4twxI