Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[313WX]

Oakland County has a 0% chance at landing this by itself. But if it makes sense to propose any place in s/e Michigan besides Detroit then it would be Ann Arbor.

Maybe Detroit and Windsor should do a joint proposal. That's certainly something they could both play up to trump Toronto.

There's zero chance of a non-US city landing this HQ [[yes, I know what the RFP said about North America, but I don't think it means much), especially with the strong Nationalist / Protectionist movement occurring under the Trump administration.

[GMan]

There's zero chance of a non-US city landing this HQ [[yes, I know what the RFP said about North America, but I don't think it means much), especially with the strong Nationalist / Protectionist movement occurring under the Trump administration.

Bezos has no love for Trump though. Lets see where his loyalty's lie.

[MicrosoftFan]

These are my top 5:

1. New Center. Close to Q Line, Amtrak and Airport commuter rail service. This is the best site for Transit. In addition, it's close to 3 major freeways, one which links to the suburbs, one to Chicago, and one to Florida. Also has a lot of land for expansion and has proximity to an industrial area and freight rail access.

2. DTW site. If Amazon wants this new HQ to be more logistics oriented, then these sites will work great. DTW already has tons of open land near an airport and rail lines, and is between AA and Detroit [[U of M and WSU). In addition, this has more flexibility for Amazon to develop and expand in the coming decades.

3. Brewster Douglass site. If there's anything this site has its awesome proximity to I-75 and 375. It makes connecting to a satellite campus on the Riverfront a breeze and the Q Line is only a few blocks away. It's a big patch of grass, unlike the parking lots which would need to be torn up Downtown, and has some room to expand.

4. RenCen Riverfront site. People Mover and Windsor tunnel access make this site shine. In a fun and up and coming Riverfront area and literally a stones throw from another country. Has room to expand, possibly into the RenCen, and lord knows there's enough parking.

5. Delray. This may seem odd, but if Amazon wants a true logistics hub as part of its New HQ, Delray has a lot to offer. It has proximity to rail lines and potential for DTW commuter rail. It's close to a major trucking route [[I-75/new bridge) and even water access via the river. This is the premier site for logistics operations, and I would bet land acquisition would be pretty cheap.

[313WX]

BTW, as far as mass transit, it should be mentioned that Seattle had pretty mediocre mass transit before Amazon started to blossom.

[313WX]

Bezos has no love for Trump though. Lets see where his loyalty's lie.

But Trump does have a trump card up his sleeve, and that's Trust Busting.

Amazon's already treading on very thin ice in that regards.

[canuck]

I think that Bedos will favor a US location. I think most Canadians feel that way and it makes sense to create wealth within the continental US cities. I think Gilbert's one man show of confidence in Detroit aligned with the new sports development downtown will have a strong impact on a potential approval by Bezos. MichiganU, a strong airport infrastructure and massive engineering presence can tip the scales in da D's favor.

Only one major missing piece of the puzzle is the transit. Maybe the mayor can throw in a scheme to prop the prop up.

[emu steve]

These are my top 5:

1. New Center. Close to Q Line, Amtrak and Airport commuter rail service. This is the best site for Transit. In addition, it's close to 3 major freeways, one which links to the suburbs, one to Chicago, and one to Florida. Also has a lot of land for expansion and has proximity to an industrial area and freight rail access.

2. DTW site. If Amazon wants this new HQ to be more logistics oriented, then these sites will work great. DTW already has tons of open land near an airport and rail lines, and is between AA and Detroit [[U of M and WSU). In addition, this has more flexibility for Amazon to develop and expand in the coming decades.

3. Brewster Douglass site. If there's anything this site has its awesome proximity to I-75 and 375. It makes connecting to a satellite campus on the Riverfront a breeze and the Q Line is only a few blocks away. It's a big patch of grass, unlike the parking lots which would need to be torn up Downtown, and has some room to expand.

4. RenCen Riverfront site. People Mover and Windsor tunnel access make this site shine. In a fun and up and coming Riverfront area and literally a stones throw from another country. Has room to expand, possibly into the RenCen, and lord knows there's enough parking.

5. Delray. This may seem odd, but if Amazon wants a true logistics hub as part of its New HQ, Delray has a lot to offer. It has proximity to rail lines and potential for DTW commuter rail. It's close to a major trucking route [[I-75/new bridge) and even water access via the river. This is the premier site for logistics operations, and I would bet land acquisition would be pretty cheap.

Not sure about all of the logistics talk for a headquarters building or campus.

I'm of the opinion that if Detroit is selected they will look for a campus in a super desirable part of town like river front. Is most of that land owned by GM?

Just need one big tower to start and then options to build additional towers next to it. Delete surface parking and build an additional tower.

I see twin towers at Franklin/St. Antoine, etc. and maybe smaller buildings in the area.

I do like the concept of a CAMPUS with multiple buildings, green space, etc.

I doubt Bezos would pick a 2nd or 3rd tier site and try to make it beautiful.

[313WX]

There's a lot of great cities to choose from. I won't be mad as long as it's not Atlanta.

Funny, because my feeling is the complete opposite [[for reasons I won't disclose).

If Detroit doesn't get it [[and I'm pulling for it more than anyone, because the city absolutely *NEEDS* this, unlike the other cities competing for it), then Atlanta better damn well get it.

[wolverine]

Bezos has no love for Trump though. Lets see where his loyalty's lie.

By the time HQ2 is up and running it could be a totally different administration. However, local and state governments that share Bezo's perspectives have a better shot.

[313WX]

Let's treat Amazon HQ like the Olympics and build what we [[and they) need: Mass transit


http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...oit/646866001/

[MicrosoftFan]

Let's treat Amazon HQ like the Olympics and build what we [[and they) need: Mass transit


http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...oit/646866001/

Another bonus- unlike the olympics, the billions of dollars spent on state of the art buildings and facilities won't be used for 3 weeks then left to rot.

[emu steve]

Another bonus- unlike the olympics, the billions of dollars spent on state of the art buildings and facilities won't be used for 3 weeks then left to rot.

A little O/T but the good thing about the L.A. 2028 Olympics is that most of what the Olympics need has already been built.

Hopefully we won't see another Rio again.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

It would be cool if Detroit got this development, but I would throw out a few points to consider:

1) Bezos is known to have strong opinions about everything, and make very deliberate decisions. I suspect he already knows where he wants to put the HQ2, he is just trying to ring out the best possible deal for Amazon. So, if Detroit [[or any other city) is not his preferred location, there is little that can actually sway the decision.
2) Although the project would greatly benefit the city/region/state, I wouldn't say we "need" it. The city is rebounding nicely. Those that are in need of work are unlikely to be in the pool of people that are hired. The need for the chronic unemployed to be made hire-ready vastly exceeds the need for jobs. Managers, supervisors, engineers, executives and support staff will not be made up of Detroit's current un-and-underemployed. They will be made up of those with high school [[or higher) diplomas & a credible employment history.

[mtburb]

Another bonus- unlike the olympics, the billions of dollars spent on state of the art buildings and facilities won't be used for 3 weeks then left to rot.

And that includes mass transit to those buildings and facilities.

[canuck]

It would be cool if Detroit got this development, but I would throw out a few points to consider:

1) Bezos is known to have strong opinions about everything, and make very deliberate decisions. I suspect he already knows where he wants to put the HQ2, he is just trying to ring out the best possible deal for Amazon. So, if Detroit [[or any other city) is not his preferred location, there is little that can actually sway the decision.
2) Although the project would greatly benefit the city/region/state, I wouldn't say we "need" it. The city is rebounding nicely. Those that are in need of work are unlikely to be in the pool of people that are hired. The need for the chronic unemployed to be made hire-ready vastly exceeds the need for jobs. Managers, supervisors, engineers, executives and support staff will not be made up of Detroit's current un-and-underemployed. They will be made up of those with high school [[or higher) diplomas & a credible employment history.

Yes, your second point needs a bit of nuance. The multiplying effect of the job creation in administrative and engineering tasks is what can't be neglected. There, detroit has a pool of workers and the effort at integrating less privileged people into the workforce has to be paramount.

Also, a large transit scheme is buildable in 5 years. There is potential for approval from suburban stakeholders if the prize is worth it. Maybe this will be a lesson to those political dinosaurs who deny the importance of transit infrastructure in the vitality coefficient of a major metro.

[iheartthed]

There's zero chance of a non-US city landing this HQ [[yes, I know what the RFP said about North America, but I don't think it means much), especially with the strong Nationalist / Protectionist movement occurring under the Trump administration.

Nah, there is an extremely good chance that this ends up in Toronto precisely because of the nationalist/protectionist positions of the current administration. Amazon is a global company and its largest growth will ultimately occur outside of the U.S.

[davewindsor]

There's one issue with Amazon picking Detroit and the city and region lacks regional transit. Amazon's RFP wants direct access to rail, train, subway/metro and bus routes at the site. Detroit has just the QLine and People Mover and bus routes. No subway, no mass transit.

https://www.facebook.com/DetroitTransit/posts/1466058093484178

If Detroit were to not be picked, this would be the reason why. I truly hope Amazon looks past that and picks Detroit though.

What about the Michigan Central Station site? It has the 500,000 sq. ft needed for Phase I. Matty apparently spent $12m refurbishing it in the past year. It has railway tracks behind it to meet the direct access to rail requirement. Close to downtown. Mayor Duggan could even donate Roosevelt park for extra parking or new buildings if needed.

Another plus going for Detroit over another American city or Toronto is that their HQ campus could be split up between two countries. 40,000 employees in Detroit and 10,000 employees in Windsor. The tunnel bus could easily move employees from one country campus to another. I'm surprised our lazy mayor hasn't phoned Duggan up about making a joint city pitch.

[Gistok]

What about the Michigan Central Station site? It has the 500,000 sq. ft needed for Phase I. Matty apparently spent $12m refurbishing it in the past year. It has railway tracks behind it to meet the direct access to rail requirement. Close to downtown. Mayor Duggan could even donate Roosevelt park for extra parking or new buildings if needed.

Another plus going for Detroit over another American city or Toronto is that their HQ campus could be split up between two countries. 40,000 employees in Detroit and 10,000 employees in Windsor. The tunnel bus could easily move employees from one country campus to another. I'm surprised our lazy mayor hasn't phoned Duggan up to make a joint pitch.

I'ts rare that I agree with you... but you nailed it this time Dave....

Also, I would love to see them use the Fisher Building... I think that Peter Cummings et al... would welcome a booming addition to New Center with Amazon using their building... I bet that the Detroit Schools would even be happy to sell their way overpriced 5 story condo offices in that building.

And also build on one of the major [[still) empty blocks in Downtown with something really soaring to make a skyline impact.

[313WX]

Nah, there is an extremely good chance that this ends up in Toronto precisely because of the nationalist/protectionist positions of the current administration. Amazon is a global company and its largest growth will ultimately occur outside of the U.S.

That doesn't have anything to do with where their HQ is based.

If that were the case, GM would have moved its HQ to China by now.

[iheartthed]

That doesn't have anything to do with where their HQ is based.

If that were the case, GM would have moved its HQ to China by now.

But your point is that Amazon would stay in the U.S. due to issues of nationalism and protectionism. My point is that if Amazon is forced to choose between nationalist and protectionist policies in the U.S. and moving to Toronto then it is more likely going to move to Toronto. I think it is very telling that they are considering all of North America, and not just the United States.

I work at a company that, like Amazon, hires a lot of foreign-born highly skilled workers. It is far easier for foreign-born highly skilled workers to get visas to live in Canada than it is in the United States, and that was true way before the president decided that the process should be even harder. My company regularly has employees that encounter visa issues due to the rigid nature of the H1B visa process. Sending those employees to Toronto is usually the first option that is considered if they have to leave the U.S.

I'm not trying to make a political statement about immigration since my own feelings are pretty nuanced. However, I do know for a fact that leadership in companies that rely on highly skilled foreign workers have not been pleased with the president's position on immigration, nor his attempt to make it harder for educated workers to come here.

[MicrosoftFan]

I think Amazon wants to design its own buildings and or campus.

[SammyS]

I think Amazon wants to design its own buildings and or campus.

Agree and why not? Because no city anywhere in the world has so many available downtown blocks like Detroit has. The sky is literally the only limit.

[313WX]

But your point is that Amazon would stay in the U.S. due to issues of nationalism and protectionism. My point is that if Amazon is forced to choose between nationalist and protectionist policies in the U.S. and moving to Toronto then it is more likely going to move to Toronto. I think it is very telling that they are considering all of North America, and not just the United States.

You already have an increasing number of prominent people pushing to have Amazon trust busted. At least in the political climate now, I don't think they're going to want to stir that point.

Besides, there aren't many other places in the world [[if any) where they can do all of the following combined things:

1. Abuse [[read: overwork) their employees.

2. Enjoy an extremely laxed regulatory and tax environment.

3. Not worry about having to turn over their intellectual property to the government or government ownership.

[emu steve]

I think Amazon wants to design its own buildings and or campus.

Agree and I think the river front could meet the requirements.

[Canadian Visitor]

You already have an increasing number of prominent people pushing to have Amazon trust busted. At least in the political climate now, I don't think they're going to want to stir that point.

Besides, there aren't many other places in the world [[if any) where they can do all of the following combined things:

1. Abuse [[read: overwork) their employees.

2. Enjoy an extremely laxed regulatory and tax environment.

3. Not worry about having to turn over their intellectual property to the government or government ownership.

In reverse order....

In what developed country are you aware of government confiscating or nationalizing I.P?

The entire E.U., Canada, the U.S., Australia, Japan etc. all have I.P. laws, and trade treaties which cover them.

There are different lengths of copyright and drug patents, but not by that much.

Really a complete non-issue.

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2. Canada is not particularly regulation heavy and has a LOWER corporate tax burden than the U.S.

All-in rate for Michigan [[Fed, 43.5 + Mich 6) = 49.5%

All-in rate for Ontario [[Fed, 15 + ON 11.5) = 26.5%

just saying.

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1. While it is true that Ontario's labour laws are a bit more generous than those in most US States, the differences aren't huge and would hardly matter to a well-paid, well educated workforce.

Largely the differences are, higher min. wage [[but our software engineers and senior corp. managers have lower salaries, after factoring for currency).

A whopping 2 paid sick days by law [[ I would imagine most Amazon staff get more than this already)

And three weeks paid vacation after 5 years.

Again, at the pay-grade we're discussing, most will get this or better already.

The work week here is 44 hours [[before OT kicks in); and OT doesn't apply to managers.

Its also rare to apply it to salary staff. [[only hourly)