Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[wolverine]

While Detroit is lacking in mass transit, one thing it does have going to it is an excellent road system that most cities lack [[including Seattle). That would make it convenient for them to live in the suburbs and commute.

The fact that you can get to most areas within the Metro area in roughly 30-45 minutes, even during rush hour, speaks to this fact.

This is true, and it's uncertain whether this will be a deal breaker. Furthermore, let's not forget similar companies that cluster in the SF Bay Area aren't tied directly to mass transit. And transit in Seattle is pretty weak. But the future is in transit, so Detroit should at least guarantee all this commuter rail or LRT expansion become a real thing, not 10 years from now, but now.

[313WX]

This is true, and it's uncertain whether this will be a deal breaker. Furthermore, let's not forget similar companies that cluster in the SF Bay Area aren't tied directly to mass transit. And transit in Seattle is pretty weak. But the future is in transit, so Detroit should at least guarantee all this commuter rail or LRT expansion become a real thing, not 10 years from now, but now.

If nothing else, rapid transit to/from the airport should be non-negotiable.

I think DTW, which is an otherwise world class and well-run facility, has taken a huge hit in its ranking because it's such a pain in the ass to get to/from.

[313WX]

Part of me thinks this is a stunt by Amazon to put pressure on Seattle, but if not then I would put Detroit's chances comfortably in the top 10, if not top 5.

Detroit has:
Population
Proximity to education
Relative low cost of living
Large airport and easy access to other population centers

Transit is the only box that it doesn't check well, and the only cities I can think of that would be able to do that well and still provide relatively lower costs of living are Chicago and Philly.

My guess is that the top competitors would look something like:
1. Chicago or Dallas
2. Toronto
3. Philadelphia
4. Atlanta or Charlotte
5. Detroit or Pittsburgh

Atlanta, with MARTA and the rail line to/from Hartsfield-Jackson, has "good enough" transit. Obviously, if you plan to live out in the suburbs, then you'd be right. But since the end of the recession, Atlanta's Midtown is really developing into a decent option for urban living.

[Bham1982]

If nothing else, rapid transit to/from the airport should be non-negotiable.

I think DTW, which is an otherwise world class and well-run facility, has taken a huge hit in its ranking because it's such a pain in the ass to get to/from.

Detroit has one of the best airports in terms of access. It's a breeze.

People traveling for work are being expensed. They don't take transit from the airport even in Tokyo.

[douglasm]

As to the tax issue, I would not be shocked if tax breaks are offered to Amazon by willing suters. BTW, Amazon got about $14.2 million in breaks from the state of Washington between 2012 and 2015.

Bham1982......but they do in Seattle. Amazon is very green, and the light rail from Seattle [[and Tacoma) to Sea-Tac is well used.

[ABetterDetroit]

Ok fun dream. Where?

Would Monroe block work for a shared HQ of this magnitude? RenCen parking lots? They would need BIG space and a very prominent location...

I would go all in for this one, whatever it takes if its possible.

[313WX]

Ok fun dream. Where?

Would Monroe block work for a shared HQ of this magnitude? RenCen parking lots? They would need BIG space and a very prominent location...

1. Several supertall skyscrapers on the Lafayette Block and surrounding areas [[sorry Holiday Inn Express). Done!!!

2. Several supertall skyscrapers in Bricktown [[sorry Saint Andrews). Also done!!!

[emu steve]

A Washington Post article suggests:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.77b1697eedfa

"“The fact that Amazon is even considering Canada and Mexico shows how important politics has become in the site-selection process,” said John Boyd, a Princeton, N.J.-based location consultant whose clients include Boeing, Chevron and JPMorgan Chase. “This is a high-profile search, and Amazon has an incredible amount of wherewithal to influence state and federal legislation.”Toronto, where it is easier to hire foreign workers than in the United States, could be a top contender for Amazon’s new headquarters, according to Boyd. [[Other areas he thinks are likely: New Jersey, South Florida, Northern Virginia, Atlanta.)"

I don't want to be unkind to South Florida, facing Irma, but I would think locating where huge hurricanes are possible is a negative.

No Va. has the subway line going out to Dulles international airport in 2020 or 21 [[this is phase II of an expansion). So it has great mass transit, access to a major airport, and an area with a lot of office parks. For those familiar with No. Va., think Tysons Corner area and all the new construction going up along the expanded subway line [[Silver line, for those curious).

Cost of living and cost of labor are big negatives.

EDIT: Dulles has non-stops to SEA via a couple airlines [[Alaska and United). And, of course, Bezos owns the Washington Post so he already has a company in D.C.

[EGrant]

New Center, Riverfront, FoxTown parking lots would be possibilities.

[313WX]

Detroit has one of the best airports in terms of access. It's a breeze.

People traveling for work are being expensed. They don't take transit from the airport even in Tokyo.

According to this, Detroit's airport is ranked at the bottom amongst possible contenders [[I wonder why?).

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/here...dquarters.html

[emu steve]

New Center, Riverfront, FoxTown parking lots would be possibilities.

Are those areas to 'land locked'?

They have plenty of space but the space is ultimately confined. I think Bezos is looking for space which can continue to grow and grow over time, decades.

[Jason]

Detroit has a few advantages.

Cost of living is low. This means they can pay lower salaries than in say NYC. Scaling those savings over 50,000 employees would save them a lot of money.

Amazon wants to get into self driving vehicles for their delivery stuff, and being in Detroit would be great for that.

Land is much cheaper and easier to acquire. Apparently Amazon wants 500,000 square feet for the initial phase but ultimately 8 million. For reference, One Detroit Center is 1.6 million. Detroit is probably the only city where they could build a large skyscraper campus right in a downtown for a low cost.

I also think Detroit can provide an urban experience especially after the growth that Amazon itself would inspire. But I think there's a lot of CS people who don't really want to live in San Francisco or NYC or Seattle and drink expensive coffee. In Detroit you can work downtown and live cheaply in the suburbs with a short commute and a big yard and a dog. Or you could even buy a prewar mansion in the city with a big yard and a dog.

And for however much the HQ location makes any difference, Detroit's branding would help counter their "global corporate overlords" image.


Detroit also has a bunch of disadvantages which we already know too well. There's a lot of great cities to choose from. I won't be mad as long as it's not Atlanta.

[southen]

Opportunity Detroit's Instagram feed just confirmed that Dan Gilbert is going to try and woo Amazon here. So there's that.

[313WX]

Opportunity Detroit's Instagram feed just confirmed that Dan Gilbert is going to try and woo Amazon here. So there's that.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/07/da...hq-in-detroit/

It did get one thing wrong. Comerica's HQ is in Dallas, not Detroit.

[mikeg19]

Well, short answer no. Mass transit is probably going to be a deal breaker, but Detroit Metro area does have a lot of the qualifications they are looking for. But as I've read in a few articles this morning, Michigan does not have a shovel ready plot of land large enough for Amazon. It might sound crazy, but their timeline doesn't allow for brownfield redevelopment, land procurement, etc. It needs to be 100% development ready today, and we simply just don't have that.

Maybe Gores can pitch them the Palace

[Oddz313]

Mass Transit might not be a deal breaker for the fact of privatization, Gilbert along w amazon could strike a deal that the city and state would go for connecting the Q-Line to the A-Line. Along with whatever millions to billions in tax breaks and free land. Of course there are negatives that come down the line, one of these states will eventually go bankrupt because of corporate welfare.

[401don]

Well, short answer no. Mass transit is probably going to be a deal breaker, but Detroit Metro area does have a lot of the qualifications they are looking for. But as I've read in a few articles this morning, Michigan does not have a shovel ready plot of land large enough for Amazon. It might sound crazy, but their timeline doesn't allow for brownfield redevelopment, land procurement, etc. It needs to be 100% development ready today, and we simply just don't have that.
Maybe Gores can pitch them the Palace

Instead of the Palace, think Silverdome. No major downtown core is going to have this much land. I can't think of anywhere in the Toronto area. The land behind Foxtown is a little smaller than the MGM space but still not nearly large enough. Maybe if you split it between Foxtown and the fail jail site. That would really put a monkey wrench into things.

[Canadian Visitor]

Instead of the Palace, think Silverdome. No major downtown core is going to have this much land. I can't think of anywhere in the Toronto area. The land behind Foxtown is a little smaller than the MGM space but still not nearly large enough. Maybe if you split it between Foxtown and the fail jail site. That would really put a monkey wrench into things.

Toronto has the former Unilver factory site at DVP & Lakeshore. Its proposed as an all-office campus w/13M square feet of office space.

The other choice near downtown would be the Oxford Towers proposal behind the existing convention centre, over the railway corridor. It originally envisioned only 2.5M sq ft of office, but had hotel, residential and other uses. Total size was about 7M sq ft.

[emu steve]

Maybe one way to shape this discussion is do like what was done after Pope Benedict resigned. Pundits came up with the 'Sistine Sixteen' [[like the Sweet Sixteen in the NCAA tourney and picked winners in the brackets until a likely Pope was picked. [[BTW, I doubt few had Cardinal Bergoglio in their bracket because of his advanced age).

It might be fun to come up with bracket:

1). "Beyond the Borders": Toronto vs. Mexico.

2). Southeast bracket: Miami vs. Atlanta.

3). The "D's": Detroit vs. D.C. [[actually No. Virginia). Or maybe the "B1G" [[Big 10 states and put in say Chicago and Detroit for that bracket).

4). "Texas Twos": Austin vs. Dallas.

Etc. and then get to the Elite Eight, Final Four and so on...

This may sound hokey, but I'll bet that Amazon will 'bracket' the cities in some logical order, e.g., Toronto and Mexico City, maybe southeastern cities like Atlanta and Miami, etc. and narrow it down and then come up with say four semi-finalists and then let them go head to head on individual rating factors.

Say, we want to be in the continental 48 states, want to be close or far from Seattle, close or far from D.C., [[maybe) near or far from where hurricanes hit, etc.

E.g., "If we locate in Mexico City, Trump will... [[expletive deleted)".

[Scottathew]

It would be interesting to see Trump's reaction if they picked Canada.

My guess would be this:

1. Trump declares war against Canada via Twitter
2. Huckabee-Sanders denies that we have declared war against Canada
3. Golf weekend
4. Press conference in front of gold colored things where he re-declares war
5. Huckabee-Sanders yells at media for creating false Canada-war narrative
6. Trump tweets good things about Putin
7. Golf weekend

[emu steve]

Part of me thinks this is a stunt by Amazon to put pressure on Seattle, but if not then I would put Detroit's chances comfortably in the top 10, if not top 5.

Detroit has:
Population
Proximity to education
Relative low cost of living
Large airport and easy access to other population centers

Transit is the only box that it doesn't check well, and the only cities I can think of that would be able to do that well and still provide relatively lower costs of living are Chicago and Philly.

My guess is that the top competitors would look something like:
1. Chicago or Dallas
2. Toronto
3. Philadelphia
4. Atlanta or Charlotte
5. Detroit or Pittsburgh

Surprised you didn't put No Va. on the list:

1). Very large metropolitan area.

2). Education: George Mason is close [[almost like WSU for Detroit), maybe 5 miles from a possible site and University of Maryland is literally on the subway route. Maryland is a Big Ten university.

3). COL [[cost of living): Negative for No. Va. BUT a location near the Dulles Airport would lessen costs.

4). Airport: The subway system when completed will run next to Dulles [[walking distance). Dulles is an international airport.

In a few years, someone will be able to fly into Dulles, walk to the subway, board the Silver line and take the subway to the White House, Capitol Hill, etc. all just a few BLOCK walk.

On this Wikipedia map, Dulles is on the SILVER line [[left side of the map); Univ. of Maryland on the upper right side on the GREEN line.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...o_Map_2013.svg

[southen]

The only thing at this point that could be a deal breaker is the transit, but DG may be able to paint a picture of a more transit friendly Detroit.

From what I read phase one of the HQ needs to be 800k square feet. That just so happens to be the footage of Monroe Block that will put shovels in the ground early next year. It would be easy and quick for Amazon to step into that building. They could build out the rest of the site as planned for Monroe or they could alter it to reflect future needs for the company.

I believe I also read that Amazon stated the site doesn't have to be contiguous. It looks like they would prefer to be in an urban setting and understand having that much land available would be tricky. If you were to say put them at Monroe Block then in a cluster of buildings along the riverfront where GM and DG are planning things I have no doubt they would be fine with that arrangement. I also doubt many other cities could offer up prime riverfront property for them as well.

I would be shocked if their interest in the Detroit area included places like the Silverdome or Palace site. Every indication for me is that this is a company that understands what young tech workers are looking for and it isn't going to be found far out in the suburbs.

[emu steve]

The only thing at this point that could be a deal breaker is the transit, but DG may be able to paint a picture of a more transit friendly Detroit.

From what I read phase one of the HQ needs to be 800k square feet. That just so happens to be the footage of Monroe Block that will put shovels in the ground early next year. It would be easy and quick for Amazon to step into that building. They could build out the rest of the site as planned for Monroe or they could alter it to reflect future needs for the company.

I believe I also read that Amazon stated the site doesn't have to be contiguous. It looks like they would prefer to be in an urban setting and understand having that much land available would be tricky. If you were to say put them at Monroe Block then in a cluster of buildings along the riverfront where GM and DG are planning things I have no doubt they would be fine with that arrangement. I also doubt many other cities could offer up prime riverfront property for them as well.

I would be shocked if their interest in the Detroit area included places like the Silverdome or Palace site. Every indication for me is that this is a company that understands what young tech workers are looking for and it isn't going to be found far out in the suburbs.

For the first [[or second) time, I completely agree with you.

When one looks at the available 'blocks' in downtown Detroit it isn't too hard to come up with a nice assortment of blocks. All could be within walking or shuttle distance of each other.

And I really wonder if mass transit is a deal breaker for Detroit? In Detroit most of the big assets are located along the QLine. It isn't like employees will be attending meetings all over the city.

DTW isn't too far away and who knows CYA could be more utilized.

If the educational status of the workforce is a key criteria, then having UofM 35 miles away is a big plus. UofM is a world-class university and I'd guess that Amazon would salivate to pick the cream of the UofM crop. And, of course, Wayne State would be a few miles away and that gives them access to the R&D expertise there. A business school say a mile from the headquarters building.

Something not discussed: Climate. Detroit's climate is a lot harsher than Seattle's. Don't know how Bezos feels about sub-zero temps.

[iheartthed]

Surprised you didn't put No Va. on the list:

1). Very large metropolitan area.

2). Education: George Mason is close [[almost like WSU for Detroit), maybe 5 miles from a possible site and University of Maryland is literally on the subway route. Maryland is a Big Ten university.

3). COL [[cost of living): Negative for No. Va. BUT a location near the Dulles Airport would lessen costs.

4). Airport: The subway system when completed will run next to Dulles [[walking distance). Dulles is an international airport.

In a few years, someone will be able to fly into Dulles, walk to the subway, board the Silver line and take the subway to the White House, Capitol Hill, etc. all just a few BLOCK walk.

On this Wikipedia map, Dulles is on the SILVER line [[left side of the map); Univ. of Maryland on the upper right side on the GREEN line.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...o_Map_2013.svg

I read their request as wanting an urban location and I did not think D.C. would have been a contender cost wise. But yeah, I guess NoVA makes sense.

[iheartthed]

Southeast bracket: Miami vs. Atlanta.

I think there is no way that Amazon chooses Miami, Houston, or any other disaster prone region. If they are serious about splitting up the sphere of influence away from Seattle then I assume one of the things they are most concerned about is business continuity in the event of a disaster.