Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[bust]

And you know, I'm gung ho for mass transit, but who knows if the atomization of vehicular choices will not make mass transit redundant at the end of the day. I mean, as you say, who can tell whether the fine grained business model of Amazon delivery is more or less sustainable in the long run.

In that sense, Detroit would come out on top for having opted out of transit options in time to make way for an ever increasing use of individual mobility.

If you think we're all going to be traveling via our individual choice of vehicle-pod, wouldn't our future be more and wider roads?

I'm not down with that. Not one bit.

PS. Yeah this belongs on another thread. The future mobility thread perhaps. Let's reply there, if we have one. I'll find it.

[Zads07]

$4 BILLION in incentives for a private company.

This is absurd and wrong. Put the money into infrastructure or the Flint Water pipes.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...hq2-state-says

[Richard]

Lol New Jersey offered 7 billion,borderline insanity.

Do a search on Amazon offers to relocate.

If these cities put that much money into their own inner cites what a difference it would make.

[stasu1213]

I would had just given them a building in downtown midtown or land for free

[313WX]

I don't get why people keep saying states should be spending this money on infrastructure.

It's not like any city/state is literally going to cut Amazon a check for billions of dollars. Instead, these places will be sacrificing future tax revenue [[in other words, money they don't have yet) to lure HQ2.

[Gistok]

More on the Michigan offer to Amazon....

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...oit/645400002/

[O3H]

......we lost ................despite the incentives .............take a hint

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

......we lost ................despite the incentives .............take a hint

As have hundreds of other communities

[313WX]

As have hundreds of other communities

To his point though, Detroit's rejection stands out a bit more in that:

*Michigan is the only top 10 state to not make the short list.

*It offered some of the most generous incentives of all of the candidates, even more generous than majority of the finalists. Until Montgomery County, MD recently upped the ante, we only knew of NJ's incentives being even more generous.

[313WX]

BTW, Detroit was rejected by the U.S. Army as well for the Futures Command center, citing a "livability deficit."

Perhaps the most painful part is even the other major cities that were rejected by Amazon [[Minneapolis, Houston, Seattle and San Francisco) made the Army's shortlist.

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/...oit/618924002/

[Gistok]

......we lost ................despite the incentives .............take a hint

We heard you the first time... and the time after that...

[masterblaster]

Well EMU STEVE, our former resident EMU enthusiast who was the champion of all things Ilitch and Northern Virginia was right all along - the HQ2 is coming to Arlington, VA in Northern Virginia.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-hq2-new-headquarters-will-be-in-queens-and-crystal-city-2018-9

Actually, the HQ2 will be divided into 2 locations - Queens, NY and Arlington, VA.

Detroit could not compete with what these 2 locations can offer.

However, those places are going to become even more ridiculously expensive than they already are!

[Hypestyles]

figures. oh well. best of luck. hopefully the hiring process will be transparent.

[313WX]

Detroit could not compete with what these 2 locations can offer.

No city could.

That being said, NYC and NoVA didn't engage in Bezos' bidding war that he was going for. So there's that too.

[aj3647]

That being said, NYC and NoVA didn't engage in Bezos' bidding war that he was going for. So there's that too.

Since the details of most cities' bids were kept secret from the public, we have no idea what they offered Amazon in terms of incentives.

[Bham1982]

NYC and DC have high taxes, strong unions, lots of regulation, high housing costs [[supposedly all terrible things here in MI), yet they're wealthy, booming and about to get massive corporate wins.

Turns out that "business friendly", at least for Amazon, means access to talent. They want to be where young, talented people want to be.

[313WX]

Since the details of most cities' bids were kept secret from the public, we have no idea what they offered Amazon in terms of incentives.

NYC from October 2017:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.amn...nyc-1.14528070

"The city does not plan to offer any additional benefits it has discretion over, according to its Economic Development Corporation.

“Our biggest sell is our talent and the attractiveness, diversity and livability of New York City. Other cities around the country may have more of a need to lead with financial incentives,” said Anthony Hogrebe, a spokesman for the EDC. “Clearly, that and whatever the state is offering will be a component of what Amazon is looking at in New York, but I don’t think that will ever be our biggest selling point.”

And Virginia...

"Virginia has offered an incentive package as well, although nothing that has required approval by our General Assembly."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bac...ve-amazon/amp/

So again, as I said, NoVA and NYC didn't engage in a *bidding war* with the other cities like Bezos was probably hoping for.

[EGrant]

Good. They called his bluff and didn't fleece taxpayers like the Foxconn deal did to Wisconsin. All of that lip service about an open competition when they really only had their sights set on a few cities [[although not surprising).

[Worldsgreatest]

*yawn*

Places like NYC and DC have expiration dates over their heads.

[Worldsgreatest]

BTW, Detroit was rejected by the U.S. Army as well for the Futures Command center, citing a "livability deficit."

Perhaps the most painful part is even the other major cities that were rejected by Amazon [[Minneapolis, Houston, Seattle and San Francisco) made the Army's shortlist.

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/...oit/618924002/

Oh boy, I've read about this a while ago, this is old.

The livability score was knocked down citing health concerns, the score was good in all other areas.

Their methodology which knocked down the score used a percentage of smokers that apparently was high, which makes little sense since that has no impact on anybody's life who isn't a smoker.

[stasu1213]

I still feel that had Detroit focused on it's neighborhoods and some form of reliable mass transit Amazon probably would had considered Detroit/Windsor as a possibility. Amazon employees would not want to live downtown where their paycheck would be spent on high rent, no grocery stores, and very expensive restaurants just to grab a bite to eat for lunch. One of the things that Detroit had over New York City in the 1950s and 60s was strong self sufficient neighborhoods fill with homes that comes with front and back yards, also which had their own business districts, schools, and grocery stores. Detroiters weren't living on top of one another. Of course we had some deprived areas but not many. Had Detroit kept it together Amazon probably would had found Detroit appealing for it's employees

[Bham1982]

Amazon employees would not want to live downtown where their paycheck would be spent on high rent, no grocery stores, and very expensive restaurants just to grab a bite to eat for lunch. One of the things that Detroit had over New York City in the 1950s and 60s was strong self sufficient neighborhoods fill with homes that comes with front and back yards, also which had their own business districts, schools, and grocery stores.

You really think highly paid millennial Amazon employees are looking for Archie Bunker-esque neighborhoods like in postwar Detroit? And would be put off by the alleged high prices and fancy restaurants in core Detroit?

Many people in Metro Detroit think 200k is some insane price for a house. In parts of Coastal CA or the NE Corridor, they think $1 million is a very reasonable price. There's no comparison.

[K-slice]

You really think highly paid millennial Amazon employees are looking for Archie Bunker-esque neighborhoods like in postwar Detroit? And would be put off by the alleged high prices and fancy restaurants in core Detroit?

Many people in Metro Detroit think 200k is some insane price for a house. In parts of Coastal CA or the NE Corridor, they think $1 million is a very reasonable price. There's no comparison.

Agreed, many of my friends who have purchased houses now lament the yard work and other upkeep that comes along with ownership. Had Amazon moved here there's no doubt that their employees would be looking at apartments and condos in dense areas over single family homes with yards.

I would rather see Detroit compete on a national stage by having awesome roads, a well funded police force, a real plan to implement mass transit with time tables for completion, etc. rather than just throwing out the old, tired tax break lure.

[stasu1213]

You really think highly paid millennial Amazon employees are looking for Archie Bunker-esque neighborhoods like in postwar Detroit? And would be put off by the alleged high prices and fancy restaurants in core Detroit?

Many people in Metro Detroit think 200k is some insane price for a house. In parts of Coastal CA or the NE Corridor, they think $1 million is a very reasonable price. There's no comparison.

Bham the average millennial's salary starting out is barely over $40,000. Many of these homes in Detroit have driveways, back and front yards unlike the side by side that Archie Bunker had lived in. Yes many young people are moving into Lofts, flats, and older homes especially in the older Mt. Elliott area. The Woodbridge area is making a major comeback. Look at the Islandview, Indian Village/West Village areas. Who do you think are moving in those areas?

[bust]

Have you guys been to Seattle? A lot of Amazon employees are happily living in cute little craftsman style houses with front and back yards. Seattle is full of them, and you don't have go far from Amazon to find them. Mid-Century modern too. Meanwhile a lot of others are happily living in condos and apartment buildings, paying high prices downtown.

There are a few things most of them have in common.

One is they choose to live close to work.

According to Amazon, "More than 70 percent of Amazon employees live in the city of Seattle. 55 percent of “Amazonians” commute to work in ways other than driving, and 20 percent of those commuters get to work by walking."

Another is they like neighborhoods with their own business districts, schools, and grocery stores. Most of Seattle is this way. The most desirable neighborhoods are for sure.

So Stasu1213, I mostly agree with you. Detroit's single family homes and duplexes close to downtown are an opportunity. Wide areas of Detroit offer much more interesting architecture than the tract houses of Archie Bunker's Queens. The empty lots in those neighborhoods are an opportunity for infill too.

But a lot of Amazon employees would have no problem paying high prices downtown either. White collar salaries at Amazon start a lot higher than $40,000.

The main reasons why I think Amazon wasn't interested in Detroit:

1) It doesn't have a large population of potential employees who already possess the skills they most critically need;
2) It needs much better transit and the walkable urban density that tends to come with that to recruit those employees from elsewhere;
3) It must sharply reduce poverty and crime.

The us vs. them mentality and saturation of guns don't help either.

There's one more thing: It needs much better schools. There are plenty of neighborhoods in Seattle where most people would be happy to send their kids to public school, and many Amazon employees do. That wouldn't be the case in Detroit. But I don't think you can fully address this problem without addressing the others, especially not #3.

Take care of these problems and Detroit will have a much better future. I hope we do.