Henderson Goes Nuclear on Kid Rock/Ilitch

[Zozo]

No, actually it's nothing like that, at all.

Pigs cannot fly. It's physically impossible. Cult members will follow their leader regardless of circumstances. There are absolutely no physical limitations to cult devotion.

Even Trump has bragged he could murder people, and his cultists wouldn't care. He was likely right. I hope he's removed before he has the chance to prove his boast.

And it also would be impossible for humans to worry about e-mails after a nuclear bomb has dropped on them. You're coming off as a real kook. If you weren't before, your obsession with Trump has made you a delirious liar. You ought to check yourself and see where your own devotions are leading you before you criticize people you don't know or understand.

[aj3647]

That is what they are paid to do,would you pay to go see a movie and instead of playing the movie your President got up in front of the screen and gave a speech. What did you pay for a movie or a speech.

God, this is a stupid fucking argument. They are paid to play 60 minutes of football...WHICH THEY DO. They do not protest during the game. They are NOT paid to stand up during a pre-game song. Nobody buys tickets to watch them stand or kneel for the anthem...they buy tickets to watch them play football...which they absolutely do.

If you honestly think that they are paid millions of dollars to stand silently during the pre-game anthem...then I don't know how to explain it to you that they aren't in a way that your brain will comprehend.

Or maybe I can just claim that maybe they are "thinking about running for office" and that would make it A-OK, just like when Kid Rock gets political during his shows, right Richard?

Kid rock is running for senate 2018, so yea,everything he does and says becomes politico,it is just par to the course.

Please provide a link to a news source which states that Kid Rock has officially declared his candidacy for Senate or has filed the appropriate paperwork for a Senate run.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ate/105892534/

“I have not spoken with Kid Rock, and he has not reached out to me,” said Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel, who ran the Michigan GOP before President Donald Trump tapped her for the national post. “I just don’t think he’s running.”

What on earth is 'black protest'. Do we now self-segregate based on how and what we protest?

Black protest is when black people come together to protest issues of racial discrimination and oppression that specifically target black people. Remember the Black Civil Rights movement of the 1950's and 60's? Is this an actual question on your part that you sincerely do not know?

[ABetterDetroit]

That $324 million plus all the lottery money over the last 25 years has really made a difference!

Do you really think $324m would be added to the school budget? If it were, do you really think any of it would have made it through the sewage pipe to the students?

It took another topic to cut through the bullshit and get your true feelings out about using tax dollars to educate Detroit kids. You're for billionaire sports team owners and L.L.C.s in Florida to receive our money no matter how expensive that is for us taxpayers because inner city schools are a "sewage pipe". Got the message.

As a financial conservative, I don't believe we can afford more of your libertarianism. The Flint water disaster and destabilizing the largest school district budget in the state of Michigan substantially with no improvement in education have been Multi Billion Dollar mistakes.

Thanks but no thanks on more 'run it like a business' ideas to inflict on the most troubled communities in this state please, it's been pretty damn expensive.

[Wesley Mouch]

Black protest is when black people come together to protest issues of racial discrimination and oppression that specifically target black people. Remember the Black Civil Rights movement of the 1950's and 60's? Is this an actual question on your part that you sincerely do not know?

I understand your desire to segregate people, but I do not agree with it. Do you think BLM is a black movement? What makes something 'black'? Can whites participate? What about mixed-race people? Is it really necessary to put people in boxes? Odd how that's now a liberal trait, while most conservatives are championing equal treatment for all.

I'll also take a second to answer your question about whether they're paid to stand. I think they are. The league has a deal with the government to play the Anthem, so I hear. The deal is a business relationship with the players employers. I think the employer should be able to determine whether players stand for the anthem, yes. But its a free country. You can decide to do what you wish to do on your own time. But the players signed a contract -- and with union protection.

[southen]

Equal treatment and equity are different things. Conservatives think that if they treat everyone equally the system is just. Liberals look at it more deeply seeing that years of systemic racism and backwards policy have set back certain groups. Ignoring those differences does nothing to actually help said groups, but saying you are "color blind" or treat people equally, does make it look like you care and are trying.

[Wesley Mouch]

Equal treatment and equity are different things.

Certainly.

Conservatives think that if they treat everyone equally the system is just.

I'm not a conservative, but systems that treat people equally is a most excellent goal. I'm not a liberal, but I don't think liberals believe that we've achieved equality of treatment. I thought inequality of treatment was central to BLM's existence, for example.

Liberals look at it more deeply seeing that years of systemic racism and backwards policy have set back certain groups.

I agree with this. So what's next is an assessment of how to improve lives going forward.

Ignoring those differences does nothing to actually help said groups, but saying you are "color blind" or treat people equally, does make it look like you care and are trying.

I don't want to help groups, I want to help people. Helping groups [[through government action) tends to produce even more imperfect results. People game the system, because the system does not treat people equally. It dispenses advantages to people based on rules. The powerful and wealthy then game these rules and the cash and effort doesn't really get to this 'group' in the end.

I guess I'm just very suspicious of the ability of government to solve our social problems. We've made a lot of progress on racial issues. Perfection remains in the future. So we have to decide what methods are best to eliminate racism -- because that is a laudable goal.

What doesn't work, is calling Conservatives racist because they don't agree on policy -- and sure, some Conservatives are indeed racist. But most aren't.

Kaepernick pisses on a celebration of America. Sure, the celebration was concocted by the Army and the NFL, and its stupid. But it is a powerful symbol of patriotism -- which itself is under attack. Kaepernick picked it precisely because he wanted to draw attention. [[Not to mention a small dose of self-aggrandizement.)

This method of sticking it to the 'white guy' for the crimes of the past is a tried and failed method, IMO. In 1963, it was a great strategy. Today, it does more harm than good by separating us into us and them. Trump loves this fight, because he wants to separate us and them. I don't like it when we pick fights to force people to pick sides. Trump and Kaepernick are both playing a game where the loser is race relations. Those 'racists' on the fence out there, who have new black neighbors they are getting to like -- and finding a reason to side with Trump. That's not progress. And yelling 'you're a racist' louder each day is the wrong answer to opening minds.

[Bham1982]

Equal treatment and equity are different things. Conservatives think that if they treat everyone equally the system is just. Liberals look at it more deeply seeing that years of systemic racism and backwards policy have set back certain groups.

Just to be clear, the [[very real) differences between Liberals and Conservatives have nothing to do with Trump, who is neither.

Trump is anathema to Liberals and Conservatives. He's a grifter and white nationalist, who manipulates the ignorant and racist to plunder the nation.

[ABetterDetroit]

Just to be clear, the [[very real) differences between Liberals and Conservatives have nothing to do with Trump, who is neither.

Trump is anathema to Liberals and Conservatives. He's a grifter and white nationalist, who manipulates the ignorant and racist to plunder the nation.

I'm not disagreeing with your point but whatever happens the Republicans own him.

That's how he ran, was financed and who kissed his ass. Republicans are not going to be able to spin their way away from him with any kind of majority at the midterms or in 2020 very easily.

[Bham1982]

I'm not disagreeing with your point but whatever happens the Republicans own him.

That's how he ran, was financed and who kissed his ass. Republicans are not going to be able to spin their way away from him with any kind of majority at the midterms or in 2020 very easily.

I agree that Republicans "own" Trump. They could have kicked him out of their party, but weaseled out. History books will mark the Republicans as enablers of this monster and they share responsibility for the damage being done to the country and planet. If the U.S. is finally done it will be on the Republicans, and their Tea Party, birther, alt-right nonsense, which eventually spun out of control and led to a clownish reality show host as nominee.

But I do think it's clear that Trump isn't remotely "conservative" and his opposition isn't remotely "liberal". There are a billion problems with Trump, but really none of the top problems are political in nature. It's more basic. He's a demagogue, racist, liar, unqualified, and potentially traitorous, among other issues.

[313WX]

I should remind everyone, it was the Democrats' 40+ years of triangulation that led to a demagogue like Trump [[the same way that Blairites in England led to Brexit).

Unless Democrats give people a reason to vote for them beyond just being Republican-lite or "not Trump," don't get too full of yourself and assume the electorate will come out in droves to vote for them.

The Democrats need to go back to being the party of FDR and LBJ if they ever want to have any significant control of governance in this nation again.

Trump’s Presidency Would Not Have Been Possible Without Clintonism

http://progressivearmy.com/2017/05/2...ut-clintonism/

[aj3647]

I understand your desire to segregate people, but I do not agree with it. Do you think BLM is a black movement? What makes something 'black'? Can whites participate? What about mixed-race people? Is it really necessary to put people in boxes? Odd how that's now a liberal trait, while most conservatives are championing equal treatment for all.

So I guess in your mind, there's no LGBT-specific movements or protests in the United States either?

Yes, whites can participate in BLM rallies as allies, just like straight people can march for LGBT rights as allies.

Black people didn't chose to be in a box, white people put them there. You're probably one of those people who thinks HBCUs are "racist" because they identify as "black" universities, even though the very reason they exist in the first place is because when they were created, black people literally could not attend white colleges and universities.

I'll also take a second to answer your question about whether they're paid to stand. I think they are. The league has a deal with the government to play the Anthem, so I hear.

"So you hear?" So you don't bother to actually take ten seconds and look it up to confirm it, you just take it at face value. Ok then.

Should be simple enough then for you to provide a link to some source that states that the federal government pays the NFL to play the National Anthem before games. Spoiler alert: there is no such deal. Perhaps you are confusing it with the Department of Defense, at one time, paying the NFL to conduct ceremonies and events to honor veterans and troops as part of a marketing campaign. That ended in 2014.

[Wesley Mouch]

So I guess in your mind, there's no LGBT-specific movements or protests in the United States either?

Yes, whites can participate in BLM rallies as allies, just like straight people can march for LGBT rights as allies.

Great to hear that in spite of your boxes, everyone can work towards justice.

Black people didn't chose to be in a box, white people put them there.

Who did the boxing? The Klan? The other Africans who sole them to slavery? Lyndon Johnson? Bernie Sanders? Obama?

A curious concept, these boxes.

You're probably one of those people who thinks HBCUs are "racist" because they identify as "black" universities, even though the very reason they exist in the first place is because when they were created, black people literally could not attend white colleges and universities.

No. Not at all.

"So you hear?" So you don't bother to actually take ten seconds and look it up to confirm it, you just take it at face value. Ok then.

Should be simple enough then for you to provide a link to some source that states that the federal government pays the NFL to play the National Anthem before games. Spoiler alert: there is no such deal. Perhaps you are confusing it with the Department of Defense, at one time, paying the NFL to conduct ceremonies and events to honor veterans and troops as part of a marketing campaign. That ended in 2014.

Thanks for the info. Basic argument same. They are employees in a union. The employer started the ritual. And continued it after the contract ended.

[Oddz313]

Great to hear that in spite of your boxes, everyone can work towards justice.

Who did the boxing? The Klan? The other Africans who sole them to slavery? Lyndon Johnson? Bernie Sanders? Obama?

A curious concept, these boxes.

Let me guess you are one of those Goldwater republicans that feel that the civil rights act of 1964 should have never been signed?

[aj3647]

Thanks for the info. Basic argument same. They are employees in a union. The employer started the ritual. And continued it after the contract ended.

Then the NFL, as a private employer, is free to punish those players who violate its rules. Has it done so to any of these players? Even one? Nope. So it's up the employer to punish the employee and in this case, it seems the employer has no interest in that. So that's that. I guess that issue is settled then. Nothing is going to happen to these players, no matter how much people like you and Donald Trump wish it otherwise. You aren't their boss, and it seems their actual bosses aren't interested in firing anyone over this.

[Wesley Mouch]

Then the NFL, as a private employer, is free to punish those players who violate its rules. Has it done so to any of these players? Even one? Nope. So it's up the employer to punish the employee and in this case, it seems the employer has no interest in that. So that's that. I guess that issue is settled then. Nothing is going to happen to these players, no matter how much people like you and Donald Trump wish it otherwise. You aren't their boss, and it seems their actual bosses aren't interested in firing anyone over this.

You are 100% right here. The employees behavior has been implicitly approved by their employer. [[I doubt Trump does either -- the protests galvanzive MAGA support.)

We only know the employers interest by their actions. Are they truly supportive politically, or afraid being called racist. You might have noticed that calling people racist is a sport these days. I hear it may be under consideration by the IOC.

Oddz313... I'm OK with the 1964 Civil Rights act. But some of it is getting stale. It'll be interesting to hear how SCOTUS decides on gerrymandering. Is it bad, because it hurts Democrats? Or is it good, because it protects minorities. Should be fun to watch the contortions of both side. [[Me?, I think Gerrymandering is bad for all reasons. WWBGD?)

[aj3647]

You are 100% right here. The employees behavior has been implicitly approved by their employer. [[I doubt Trump does either -- the protests galvanzive MAGA support.)

Yeah Trump doesn't care, which is why he tweeted about the NFL, what, like 20 times last weekend. [[and only tweeted once about Puerto Rico during the same time span)

He clearly doesn't care though. Doesn't bother him one bit.

We only know the employers interest by their actions. Are they truly supportive politically, or afraid being called racist. You might have noticed that calling people racist is a sport these days. I hear it may be under consideration by the IOC.

A number of the owners, including Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys, locked arms with their players and knelt before the anthem as a way of sending a unified message to Donald Trump.

Martha Ford, of the Detroit Lions, has agreed to "donate both money and her name to community issues at the heart of the players’ cause."

https://sports.yahoo.com/lions-owner...034158349.html


I think an excellent example is Robert Kraft, owner of the New England Patriots. Kraft is a Republican who strongly supported Donald Trump during the campaign and even donated $1 million to Donald Trump's Inauguration Committee. If anyone isn't going to mince words, it's him. He's as pro-Trump a guy as you are going to find in an NFL owner's box. What did he have to say?

https://nesn.com/2017/09/robert-kraf...esidents-rant/

“I am deeply disappointed by the tone of the comments made by the President on Friday,” Kraft’s statement read. “I am proud to be associated with so many players who make such tremendous contributions in positively impacting our communities. Their efforts, both on and off the field, help bring people together and make our community stronger.

“There is no greater unifier in this country than sports, and unfortunately, nothing more divisive than politics. I think our political leaders could learn a lot from the lessons of teamwork and the importance of working together toward a common goal. “Our players are intelligent, thoughtful and care deeply about our community and I support their right to peacefully affect social change and raise awareness in a manner that they feel is most impactful.”

Here's what Stephen Ross, owner of the Miami Dolphins [[and namesake of the Business School at UofM) had to say:

“‘I’m not with Trump,’ [[Miami Dolphins owner Stephen) Ross said, alluding to the president’s comments about the players. ‘And I don’t mind anyone printing that anywhere.’

From everything I've read, the consensus of the owners seems to be that while they might not be thrilled [[from a business perspective) about players kneeling during the anthem, they are unified in standing against Trump's attack on the players. Trump drew a line in the sand, and the owners are choosing to stand on the players' side of that line, not Trump's side.

I can't imagine that an NFL owner is thrilled at the notion of the President arrogantly telling them how to run their operations.

[bust]

This topic has become a giant distraction. The intent of the protesters has been lost. Trump and so many other cynical right wingers [[see Wesley Mouch) have successfully distorted the subject to focus almost entirely on whether the protest was disrespectful. They see this as an opportunity to shore up their base, divide their opposition, and change the topic from the never ending series of scandals and failures that have plagued the republicans in control of our federal government.

Disregard their hypocrisy. The lines have been drawn and there are few whose opinion will change. The time to stop talking about the NFL protests is now. Notice I have not until now participated in it and do not plan to again. Let’s get back to the subject of fairness and equity. To protecting our democracy. To chasing out corruption. To avoiding nuclear war. To fixing our broken health care system. To improving our schools. To protecting our planet. To making our communities safe and healthy places to live...

Trump’s N.F.L. Critique a Calculated Attempt to Shore Up His Base
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/u...-protests.html

NFL: Message Being Lost in Political Firestorm Over Anthem
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...fl-anthem.html

[Vic01]

This topic has become a giant distraction...

Funny, I seem to remember the topic was "Henderson goes Nuclear on Kid Rock/Ilitch". But I guess most folks got "distracted" with that "topic" a couple hundred posts ago... yet here we are

[bust]

Funny, I seem to remember the topic was "Henderson goes Nuclear on Kid Rock/Ilitch". But I guess most folks got "distracted" with that "topic" a couple hundred posts ago... yet here we are

That's for damn sure. But let's drop the Kid Rock topic too, please.

Some people are clever to change the topic when they're losing an argument. Or to re-frame the discussion into one they can play to their advantage. Exhibit A: Our President's Twitter stream.

When we let them bait us to follow along we're complicit in helping them bury the original topic under countless distractions. And to view the picture through the lens they want it to be seen.

Let's stop falling for it and keep our focus on what's important.

It's not important to win every battle if you win the war.

[Wesley Mouch]

This topic has become a giant distraction. The intent of the protesters has been lost. Trump and so many other cynical right wingers [[see Wesley Mouch) have successfully distorted the subject to focus almost entirely on whether the protest was disrespectful. They see this as an opportunity to shore up their base, divide their opposition, and change the topic from the never ending series of scandals and failures that have plagued the republicans in control of our federal government...snip...

So when the 'others' make a point, your reply is to ignore them? You might alternately consider making DY a 'safe space' where only those opinions about Detroit with which you agree are allowed.

To protecting our democracy. To chasing out corruption. To avoiding nuclear war. To fixing our broken health care system. To improving our schools. To protecting our planet. To making our communities safe and healthy places to live...

I wholeheartedly agree with each and every item in your list. I would add 'to eliminate racial injustice'.

I had read the Times article. So Trump not only gained support from his base, but it seems he did change the conversation to the 'disrespect' aspect of Kaepernick & Co's protest. Kaepernick could choose to stand for the anthem, and at the very end go down on knee in 'prayer' at the end. The point on injustice would be made, and the patriotic feelings of much of the audience respected. Win-win.

[aj3647]

Terrell Pryor is met with chants of "nigger" from white Kansas City Chiefs fans

http://uproxx.com/sports/terrelle-pr...l-instagram/2/

Being called a Nigger several times to the point where an NFL employee had to step to me and stand by me the whole game from 2nd quarter on is the exact reason why guys are kneeling during anthem

Man, I just can't imagine why these guys are protesting!

[Kevgoblu]

Kaepernick could choose to stand for the anthem, and at the very end go down on knee in 'prayer' at the end. The point on injustice would be made, and the patriotic feelings of much of the audience respected. Win-win.

<sigh> Again. The point of protesting is NOT to make you comfortable or do it in a way that is palatable to you [[or whomever the protest is aimed at). If he did that, this string wouldn't be 11 pages deep.

[Wesley Mouch]

<sigh> Again. The point of protesting is NOT to make you comfortable or do it in a way that is palatable to you [[or whomever the protest is aimed at). If he did that, this string wouldn't be 11 pages deep.

Protesting does sometimes require civil disobedience, to be sure.

Comfort on my part is not requested.

Neither should Mr. Kaepernick expect comfort. He has decided to disrespect others celebration of our nation to further his cause. It is his right. It is not our obligation to agree with him, nor to appreciate his intentional disrespect.

[canuck]

Protesting does sometimes require civil disobedience, to be sure.

Comfort on my part is not requested.

Neither should Mr. Kaepernick expect comfort. He has decided to disrespect others celebration of our nation to further his cause. It is his right. It is not our obligation to agree with him, nor to appreciate his intentional disrespect.

Man, you have the silliest thought processes. I don't mean to be judgmental but your goofiness deserves to be commended.

[southen]

Neither should Mr. Kaepernick expect comfort. He has decided to disrespect others celebration of our nation to further his cause. It is his right. It is not our obligation to agree with him, nor to appreciate his intentional disrespect.

He isn't disrespecting others choice to celebrate, he is simply not participating. You guys seriously need to stop acting like this is an affront on how YOU choose to pay respects to the flag before a sporting event.

You don't need to appreciate anything he does, but perhaps the people on your side of things could refrain from the racist rhetoric? Reading comment sections and hearing stories of other players being called the N-word only goes to show you exactly why these players are protesting. Instead of complaining constantly about a player exercising his constitutional rights you might want to look at the people that refuse to look at him like a human being.