Buildings next to Fillmore slated for demolition

[Zads07]

Two buildings next to the Fillmore are slated to be demolished.



https://www.facebook.com/BuildingHug...41571362521421

https://www.facebook.com/BuildingHug...42079675803923

"The argument for demolition, from what we can gather, is that the Little Ceasar's HQ is blocking the Filmore's existing loading access."

[Gistok]

I learned of this at the Preservation Detroit Downtown Historic Theatre Tours this past Saturday. I was guide at the Fillmore, and a Fillmore employee talked about it.

Yes Chuck Forbes owns these buildings, and although I don't know all the specifics, if anyone can make a go of saving old buildings it's Chuck and [[his son) Jim Forbes. They were using these "hodgepodge of built-on buildings for storage space, and never really could figure out what to do with them. The Ilitch's new Little Caesars Building blocking of the other side of the Francis Palms Building/Filmore Theatre sort of sealed the fate of these buildings. I'm not sure if enough of the 1870 house is still there to make a restoration viable... it's not easy to tell.

Am I going to be sad to see these torn down... yes. Am I upset about it? No, not really. If the Forbes could have done something with them [[besides storage)... I imagine they would have done it by now.

[1953]

...and Ilitch continues to decimate Detroit.

[drjeff]

...and Ilitch continues to decimate Detroit.

Ilitch doesn't own these buildings. You'd prefer to keep a vacant lot at the LCP headquarters location on Woodward?

[Bham1982]

Ilitch doesn't own these buildings. You'd prefer to keep a vacant lot at the LCP headquarters location on Woodward?

They're making a vacant lot. I would assume the poster wants to keep the existing buildings.

These buildings have some nice details, and could make a good restaurant space or something, but honestly, no huge loss. Still better than the upcoming nothingness, though.

[Zads07]

Sucks to see two more buildings hit the dust. You are correct Bham, I don't want to see these torn down but I understand why. Once again though, it's because of Ilitch. They are also tearing down the 120-year old home near the arena soon as well. When will we stop letting one company control the history of Detroit?

[dtowncitylover]

If anyone didn't know, there's actually a house behind the structures that was then incorporated into the current structures we see today.

What would be neat [WARNING FAR-FETCHED IDEA ALERT] would be to have a "Old Detroit" village, somewhere close to downtown. Very little from the 1800s/early 1900s exists in Detroit today continually. It would be neat to move this structure and create such a small streetscape to get a feel of what the streets were like back then. Think the basement of the Historical Museum but outside. Or hell, move them to an empty lot in Bricktown. I could envision them as a coffeeshop or some other small shop but they need to be visible and not tucked away as they are.

[emu steve]

Is the reason why these buildings are going is to create access from W. Elizabeth, instead of the alley on the other side [[north side of the Fillmore).

See Fillmore PDF for a nice map... [[page 10).

https://mavenprodcontent.blob.core.w...Packet_new.pdf

[Zads07]

Is the reason why these buildings are going is to create access from W. Elizabeth, instead of the alley on the other side [[north side of the Fillmore).

Yes, that is the presumed reason according to the links I originally posted.

[emu steve]

Yes, that is the presumed reason according to the links I originally posted.

And this is why development is so difficult.

There is the old sayings, "behavior has consequences", "elections have consequences," etc.

Well, putting up a new building also has consequences.

I assume that is why cities, etc. have zoning boards. Put up a 1,000 or 2,000 seat church and create parking and traffic problems.

So in this case, the LC headquarters building resulted in the removal of the alley used by the Fillmore.

I assume all of this was discussed in the zoning process.

[Zads07]

And this is why development is so difficult.

There is the old sayings, "behavior has consequences", "elections have consequences," etc.

Well, putting up a new building also has consequences.

I assume that is why cities, etc. have zoning boards. Put up a 1,000 or 2,000 seat church and create parking and traffic problems.

So in this case, the LC headquarters building resulted in the removal of the alley used by the Fillmore.

And in this case, it's the Ilitch's fault. But answer me this, if putting up a new building next to a theatre requires an alley for equipment trucks, why are there buildings butted up next to theatres in NYC without an alley? You rarely see empty plots of land in Manhattan.

[emu steve]

And in this case, it's the Ilitch's fault. But answer me this, if putting up a new building next to a theatre requires an alley for equipment trucks, why are there buildings butted up next to theatres in NYC without an alley? You rarely see empty plots of land in Manhattan.

The theater looks 'land locked.' The alley has been removed and the back of the theater does not back up to a street or alley, but backs up to these buildings.

[Zads07]

The theater looks 'land locked.' The alley has been removed and the back of the theater does not back up to a street or alley, but backs up to these buildings.

So if it's landlocked, then why not bust through the Elizabeth side of the theatre? That's where they're going to put it if they demolish those buildings. Don't demolish and just put the entry way on the actual street side of the building instead of creating an alley?

[warsaw7]

And in this case, it's the Ilitch's fault. But answer me this, if putting up a new building next to a theatre requires an alley for equipment trucks, why are there buildings butted up next to theatres in NYC without an alley? You rarely see empty plots of land in Manhattan.

Of course you don't. But then again Detroit has the highest per capita amount of urban developers/planners, building owners and politicians who don't know their ass from their elbow.

Beyond saddened to see this building go. It is definitely my favorite building in the city. The last I heard it was a recording studio. C'est la vie, another historic building knocked down. Such a common theme here.

[One Shot]

Sad. I was always curious about that place with the ornate façade. Crazy there's a house buried in there too. The quality and details of these old buildings will never be replicated today and that's why it's sad when I go down!

[p69rrh51]

The building was designed by Baxter, O'Dell & Halpin.

[emu steve]

So if it's landlocked, then why not bust through the Elizabeth side of the theatre? That's where they're going to put it if they demolish those buildings. Don't demolish and just put the entry way on the actual street side of the building instead of creating an alley?

Shouldn't that question question be addressed to the owners of the Fillmore and those two buildings?

[wolverine]

Glad to read these threads that people at least care. Maybe these don't seem significant buried in a downtown, but they mean something and represent a piece on the architectural continuum of Detroit history best left in place.

It could sting worse. Here in Chicago the boom cycle has been devastating on the city's older building stock. Just imagine if the Ransom-Gills house in Brush Park after being carefully restored was suddenly purchased next month, demolion permits applied for, and then it was totally leveled for maybe possibly, just potentially something better would come along...like some bland aluminum and glass clad 4 unit condo building.

Personally, I'd be outraged. But it seems most people don't care anymore.

Yeah...that's been the story in Chicago as thousands of historic structures restored in the past 10 years will face the wrecking ball. It's pains me to think this, but I believe with the exception of larger historic structures that provide some utility or are just too big to tear down, we are actually entering another cycle where preservation has fallen out of style. I really hope I'm wrong.

[Wesley Mouch]

Here's what I know:

The State Theatre [[Palms, Fillmore) was designed with load-in/out to the alley.

For 25+ years, they've used the alley PLUS a large chunk of Ilitch-owned lot to stage equipment/trucks, etc.

Ilitch is building on this lot, so Fillmore can't use it anymore. Because it will finally have a building on it. Something desirable in cities.

Fillmore / Forbes would have to load-in using only the alley. That is possible, but is very hard.

[[In NYC, they load shows in through all kinds of miserable paths. Its obscenely expensive. But its NYC and show tickets are obscenely expensive, and the only load-in/out infrequently. So if they have to load via the lobby -- they do it and just pay the stagehands obscene money.)

Forbes is creating the necessary modern load-in/out for a modern theatre through his property in his best interest. If you want to see a decent load-in, go see either the Opera House, or the Fox backstage loading lot.

Ilitch is not the evil spectre here. 'He' is just using his property.

I'll bet this has all been peaceably worked out between Ilitch and Forbes. It makes no sense for Ilitch to give Forbes a large staging area in his new building. And Forbes wouldn't want to pay for it when he has a cheaper, easier way to create a good load in/out.

If anyone is destroying historic architecture here, its Forbes. Good bless Chuck.

[emu steve]

And as Paul Harvey used to say, "now the rest of the story."

Very nicely explained. Sounds quirky to say it this way, but building the LC headquarters, disturbed the 'ecosystem' in those blocks. They [[Fillmore and Ilitches) had developed nice 'workarounds' which worked for the Fillmore and did not interfere with the undeveloped Ilitch lot.

[Gistok]

Just an aside.... 2 small but historic buildings [[both more attractive than what's behind the Fillmore)... had to come down to build the Detroit Opera House stage expansion... and loading docks.

Sometimes choices have to be made that we are not very happy with... but in either case the end result is NOT a parking lot...

[emu steve]

Just an aside.... 2 small but historic buildings [[both more attractive than what's behind the Fillmore)... had to come down to build the Detroit Opera House stage expansion... and loading docks.

Sometimes choices have to be made that we are not very happy with... but in either case the end result is NOT a parking lot...

Amen. Folks really need to realize that this isn't some distant suburb or ex-burb with nothing but undeveloped land.

Some times real choices need to be made.

Some of these buildings have been there over 100 years and time moves on and things change.

In this case, Detroit will lose two small buildings and rids itself of a parking lot but instead gets an office building facing Woodward

[Zads07]

Shouldn't that question question be addressed to the owners of the Fillmore and those two buildings?

Absolutely, but you're the one that continually defends Ilitch and tearing down buildings, so I figured why not address it to you first.

[Zads07]

Figured it was best not to start a new thread, because this building butts up next to the two that want to be torn down. Ilitch has bought the Women's City Club Building. I hope and pray he does not tear this beauty down, but I won't hold my breath.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...or-585-million

[dtowncitylover]

I can't imagine they would tear it down. It's not dilapidated, the windows look brand new or at least from within this century. Madison-Lenox was boarded up, this looks move-in ready.