State of Emergency/White Nationalist Protest in Virginia

[oladub]

And the Supreme Court has continued to draw the line below "unfettered free speech," but who cares?

Your idiotic labeling of "antifa brownshirts" is reminiscent of conservative simpletons who think the Left should be tolerant of intolerance. They're anti-fascists. You're defending fascists. Normalizing it with some misguided, bootlicking sense of lawfulness doesn't solve the problem.

From the First Amendment: Congress shall make NO law... abridging the freedom of speech,...or the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's what I mean by unfettered. It even allows people like you to advocate or suggest illegal violence without being arrested [[from your post #44 to Pam: "Fascists should be met with violence."-noise). That's good because some people might even interpret what you wrote as 'inciting' violence and put you in prison like Woodrow Wilson put his political opponents in prison. It's also good because the rest of us realize where others are coming from. For instance, police should be on alert when Antifa or Nazi brownshirts come to town. When Antifa thugs act like brownshirts and quack like brownshirts, they are brownshirts whatever fanciful thing they choose to call themselves. The link that JBMcB posted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_[[United_States)
defines Antifa as terrorists.

While I disagree with you, I continue to support your First Amendment right to say whatever you please.

[GMan]

The purpose of immunization and inoculation is to stem the spread of disease. The Extreme HardLine Right wants to limit immigration to stem the spread of what they consider to be a disease. The Extreme HardLine Right wants to limit individual lifestyle choices to stem the spread of what they consider to be diseases.

Good Americans need to work to stem the spread of the disease of the Extreme HardLine Right.

So you are suggesting the "immunization" [[Cleansing was the term used in the 40's) of groups that disagree with views that you deem offensive or someway disagreeable to yours?
We immunize to stop the spread of disease, but we don't ignore the disease. We study the disease and realize that it can rear it's ugly head again, just as we have seen with TB and other diseases we had "in check" due to immunization.

To eliminate free speech is to remove an outlet for ideas that though might be bad, should be heard by all and seen for what they are, BAD IDEAS. If you eliminate the dialog than the only outlet left for these haters is to express themselves by violence. Enter the KKK, the AntiFa, the Socialist agitators, "inserts your least favorite group here."

[Meddle]

I'm saying vote them out of Government so they can't do as much harm. Let them whine and carry on, but don't let them have the political power to hurt others.

[GMan]

I'm saying vote them out of Government so they can't do as much harm. Let them whine and carry on, but don't let them have the political power to hurt others.

So you're saying that this was a government sponsored event???

[oladub]

Where be these enemies? Capulet! Montague!
See, what a scourge is laid upon your hate,
That heaven finds means to kill your joys with love.
And I for winking at your discords too
Have lost a brace of kinsmen: all are punish'd.

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
-Prince Escalus from Romeo and Juliet.

The Prince blames himself, in part, for the tragedy; for not being firm enough and letting conflict spiral out of control. I'm wondering who ordered the stand down in Charlottesville. On the first night, some protesters valiantly surrounded a monument and were surrounded by torch carrying thugs who violently drove them away. There were police around but no arrests were made. The next day, Antifa brownshirts showed up and showered the right wing march with urine and paint filled balloons, participants on both sides were clubbing and pepper spraying each other, yet the police more or less stood aside and let it happen. Only three arrests were made as far as I know over this entire weekend. Correct me if i am wrong about that. It wasn't that there weren't enough police. There were. Officials, for some reason, decided to let this play out. One poster suggested that the State Police were in charge suggesting, if true, that the decision to not enforce the law was made by State officials. I would like the reason for the stand down investigated along with the Nazis and Antifa thugs. For instance, who paid to bus Antifa and Nazis to Charlottesville.

Then yesterday,a mob tore down a confederate statue in Durham. The Durham police stood by and watched. No arrests were made. Its beginning to seem a lot like Kristalnacht. What next, will statues of MLK or the Virgin Mary be similarly smashed?

I don't have a conclusion but am starting to wonder about intent on the part of officials condoning mayhem. Our princes are not as contrite about their roles managing potential and actual violence as was Prince Escalus

[JBMcB]

There should have been violence. Fascists should be met with violence. They incite imminent lawless action, if your sense of right & wrong is strictly dictated by your government.

If political violence is OK in your book, then it's perfectly acceptable, using your logic, for a bonehead to run people over in his car. The counter-protesters were there to commit violence against the white nationalists. It is therefore OK for them to use violence back. You've enabled them. You've made them the victim. Good for you.

In the end, the violence simply escalates. More radicals on both sides are created. Nothing is resolved. Nobody's mind is changed. You've won nothing. You've gained nothing. You've fixed nothing. You are left with nothing but the injured and the dead.

[Richard]

In the Durham case,the police reported that they did not want to intervene because of the potential for violence.

They were there takeing pictures of the participants and are filing charges against them.

The state had passed a law against the destruction or removal of public statutes,unless authorized by the state.

I think in all fairness and,sense it seems that statues provoke a reaction based on the past it is also time to remove the Jefferson memorial and the Washington memorial,because they were also slave owners and they could be construed as a reminder of the past.

[Meddle]

The counter-protesters were there to commit violence against the white nationalists.

Which group showed up in fatigues and other militarized uniforms with helmets, face shields, batons, mace/pepper spray and automatic weapons?

Hint, it wasn't the 'counter protesters'.

[Jimaz]

I just want to know whose big idea was it to carry tiki torches? Do these white supremacists have a masterful Māori infiltrator calling the shots? I can't believe no one would think that was a bad idea.

If someone suggested they march in diapers, would they all agree that was a good idea?

[GMan]

Which group showed up in fatigues and other militarized uniforms with helmets, face shields, batons, mace/pepper spray and automatic weapons?

Hint, it wasn't the 'counter protesters'.

Actually it was. There were people "dressed for trouble" on both sides. This is the problem. Agitators try to raise the ire of the other side till chaos breaks out. Then they retreat and say hey look at how bad the other side is. Meanwhile the innocents get caught up in the middle.

They should look at how many out of state people were at the rally and which groups funded transportation.

[Bong-Man]

What's seems lost in this tragic episode is that America is fighting over statues that should have never been allowed to be erected in the first place. You see, the winning side never finished the job. It's no one's fault but ours that the gov't didn't step in over 100 years ago when most of those statues were put up. It's not much different with southern schools. We let them off the hook by allowing the South to teach about 'Northern Aggression', their Southern heroes, and the lost cause for an additional 100 years. The South should have been treated just like the Nazis were. Their flag should have been banned, their ideology banned, their schools integrated, and gov't sponsored education enacted. Instead, we allowed the opposite to happen. I didn't see any sanctioned mountain carvings or Nazi tributes to Hitler, Goebbels, or Himmler, post-WW2. They were our countrymen....so we turned our backs on what needed to be done. We're still paying the price.

[Honky Tonk]

If someone suggested they march in diapers, would they all agree that was a good idea?

I think that's a GREAT idea! Then they could get into a real pissing match.

[aj3647]

The link that JBMcB posted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_[[United_States)
defines Antifa as terrorists.

Literally nowhere on that page is the word "terror", "terrorism", or "terrorist" found. Not once. It doesn't help to lie when your lie can be disproven with a simple keyword search.

They should look at how many out of state people were at the rally and which groups funded transportation.

The murdered woman, Heather Heyer, actually lived IN Charlottesville. The Nazi who murdered her lived in Ohio. In fact, nearly all of the neo-Nazi/KKK/White Supremacists marching that day were from out of town, including a local Southeast Michigan chapter called the "Detroit Right Wings" who utilized the Red Wings logo and are now facing potential legal action from the Illitch Family as a result.

But yes, it would be worth looking into whether any groups or wealthy individuals funded the travel for the Detroit Right Wings. I am also curious about that.

[Richard]

Literally nowhere on that page is the word "terror", "terrorism", or "terrorist" found. Not once. It doesn't help to lie when your lie can be disproven with a simple keyword search

A simple keyword search brings up the state of New Jersey as listing Antifa under the heading of Domestic Terrorism.

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/a...remists-antifa

Why does it take 300 antifa to protest 25 right wingers,not that I support either one but it seems like they need a lot of back up.

There also seems to be some confusion between American patroits and right wing.There is a big difference between the two.

[oladub]

It did. Had you taken the time to look through discussion notes you would have seen part of the discussion leading to the removal of the word terrorist two or so days ago since I posted The deciding factor on the discussion seems to have been that Antifa has so far not killed anyone throwing things swinging batons shutting down free speech and macing people. It's so like you to support thugs on the left whose history of evil compares with the Nazis they mimic

[aj3647]

It did. Had you taken the time to look through discussion notes you would have seen part of the discussion leading to the removal of the word terrorist two or so days ago since I posted The deciding factor on the discussion seems to have been that Antifa has so far not killed anyone throwing things swinging batons shutting down free speech and macing people. It's so like you to support thugs on the left whose history of evil compares with the Nazis they mimic

Where did I say I support them? I said the Wikipedia article you linked to didn't call them terrorists, when you said it did. Jump to some more fucking conclusions. I don't condone things like destruction of property but I would proffer the notion that ANTIFA, who you freely admit have not killed anyone, are not morally equivalent to Nazis who have actually killed people. Radical suggestion, I know, to suggest that punching someone in the face is not equally as bad as running someone over with a car and killing them.

[aj3647]

Also, the notion that the thousands of counter-protesters there were all ANTIFA. Do you think maybe most of those people weren't radical left-wing terrorists, but just regular patriotic Americans who don't like Nazis?

A radical ANTIFA sign carrying a message of hate:


ANTIFA terrorists dressed for battle:


A black-clad ANTIFA militant carrying a wooden club:


From an ANTIFA solidarity march in NYC on Sunday, these terrorists have sympathizers everywhere.


Good Guy patriots just exercising their First Amendment rights while marching through the campus of the University of Virginia, doing a friendly salute to the students.



A lawful protester defends himself against a crowd of ANTIFA thugs wielding weapons:

[GMan]

Ola, Wiki didn't define the antifa as terrorists so it must not be true.

What some left leaning people want to do is whip up the crowd to a frenzy till some INDIVIDUAL gets out of whack and causes a death. Then their media will paint a pretty picture of how the "peaceful" anti extremists were brutally attacked. This is right out of their play book.
And what a sad day for democracy etc.......
Their were agitators on both sides and they should be dealt with to the full extent of the law by law officers who sadly have been ordered to stand down.
This has nothing to do about the statues in the sense that they are symbols of slavery. Instead that they are points of rally that are visible and represent history that the left is now trying to re-write to further their socialist cause. Doesn't matter if Lee renounced slavery, he fought for the south so he is evil. Next Washington will be vilified and on to Jefferson who of course expanded the US to the pacific ocean. What evil men. Well guess what. They are men and full of faults but they wanted one thing. A "UNITED STATES" The left hates nationalism unless it is United Socialism!

Wait until the shackles of Socialism are locked upon all. Then we will know what oppression really is.
Remember, the left wants no freedom of speech that is contrary to their cause. Speech they label as hateful. And remember, despite your views and your attempts to reach out and form a dialog of discussion, they are not interested. You must be silenced! So they can hit you scream at you, throw feces at you and make fun of you.
Okay Now you get what they stand for.

[aj3647]

You know Gman, once upon a time, it was actually considered patriotic to punch a Nazi in the face. In fact, we fought a war over this. The whole world was involved.

[jcole]

I just want to know whose big idea was it to carry tiki torches? Do these white supremacists have a masterful Māori infiltrator calling the shots? I can't believe no one would think that was a bad idea.

If someone suggested they march in diapers, would they all agree that was a good idea?

Well you couldn't expect the little snowflakes to dirty their hands making their own torches with dirty rags and gasoline, could you? See, they're basically cowards and they're afraid of getting burnt, so tiki torches were safer. Also, their mothers won't let them have gasoline in the basements where they live.

[Richard]

Harrison Ford fought in WW2,learn something new everyday.I guess sense he was born July 13 1942 in theory he could have fought nazis at that time.

After WW2 it was also acceptable to kill any German civilian,man,woman or child.And millions were rounded up across the east and relocated,nazi or not.

They did not join to fight nazis,they joined to stop somebody that was going for world domination,they just happened to be nazis and Japanese.

Who both wanted to rule as a socialist dictatorship and eliminate everybody that they did not agree with.

So here and now,let's become nazis so we can kill the nazis,sounds like a plan.

You mostly see antifa in liberal cities that have stringent gun laws,one really does not see them much in Fl,probably because they know if they go after somebody with a 2x4 the end result would not be to thier liking,pesky little stand your ground laws kinda add a spoiler to the whole violence for the cause aspect.

[GMan]

You know Gman, once upon a time, it was actually considered patriotic to punch a Nazi in the face. In fact, we fought a war over this. The whole world was involved.

I know my dad is a WWII veteran.
He would punch the communist punks in the face too as well as a KKK fanatic because he is aware of their end game. That's the thing about that generation. They let you have your say then get down to business if you hurt America.
No matter the color of your skin. God Bless Them!

[JBMcB]

Which group showed up in fatigues and other militarized uniforms with helmets, face shields, batons, mace/pepper spray and automatic weapons?
Hint, it wasn't the 'counter protesters'.

Uh, what?




Even according to the counter-protester's own reports, there was no violence until Antifa showed up. They were fully expecting violence, as they were creating a human wall around the park where the unite the right group had been permitted to demonstrate.

Again, because this seems to be a murky issue. There was barely any violence until the counter-protesters tried to stop the demonstration. They fully expected violence. They, pretty much, welcomed the violence. THIS IS NOT HOW THINGS ARE DONE. You let the white nationalists have their dopey rally, then you hold your own. Otherwise, you are normalizing political violence and stratification, and you're saying that it's perfectly OK for someone to walk up to you, if you are wearing an anti-Trump T-shirt, and punch your lights out.

[Meddle]

if you are wearing an anti-Trump T-shirt, and punch your lights out.

If you're wearing a t-shirt like that, your lights are already out.

[Meddle]

until Antifa showed up.

And I have no idea what that is, but if that's a movement to root out Nazis, White supremacists and other similar hate groups, that make them the good guys. Like the US Army in the 1940s. Crush the Nazis wherever they rear their ugly heads. They have no place in the world today. To say they do is to brand yourself one of them. Like 'Rump did.