Freep On Developing The Michigan Central Station

[emu steve]

Interesting article with a lot of good discussion of issues related to redevelopment of the historical building into residences.

My thoughts: If it is to be financially feasible it will be because the area is 'coming back' and would include Roosevelt Park, probably an extension of the QLine, development around Tiger Stadium area, etc.

All of that to turn a historic building into part of a neighborhood which is becoming a redeveloping neighborhood.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ion/534609001/

[emu steve]

More thoughts:

I have always thoughts that buildings like this one, Lee Plaza [[is that the one on W. Grand Blvd.), etc. are difficult to re-develop not because of the building [[as those who concentrate on buildings, per se), but the neighborhood [[or lack there of).

Even development of sports facilities is no longer to put a facility somewhere just near freeways and parking, but more part of a development neighborhood with all of the amenities of a good neighborhood.

For MCS to hold promise to be developed into residences, developers, I think, literally need to create a new neighborhood along the triangle bounded by Cochrane, Fisher, and Michigan Ave. Something to anchor enough of a neighborhood to foster further development.

Again, maybe a neighborhood, less expensive than those along Woodward and Brush Park, geared mostly to millennials who work downtown and want to be close to work.

I see one developer working the MCS and another the area west of Tiger Stadium.

At the same time, the group behind QLine would need to come together to see if there is the will, energy and money to extend the QLine along Michigan Ave. to around 14th.

My hunch is that it would be problematic. I just can't build a strong case for say Gilbert to spend hundreds of millions on an area which isn't central to his existing business interests. I see Gilbert's interests as essentially downtown and some Brush Park. I don't see him building say in New Center, around Wayne State, or even behind the Fox.

Anyway, could this all happen by August 6, 2027????

[Meddle]

For it to have a future, they need to take it away from Fatty Moron.

It could be a community anchor itself. Imagine retail shops on the ground floor with open air cafe's and a marketplace on the platforms and track areas. Several floors of offices and light business. Residential above topped by a restaurant on the roof.

[emu steve]

I agree it can be an anchor and needs a first rate job on Roosevelt Park, but still residents don't want to live in a beautiful building but within a nice walkable neighborhood.

Not sure folks are happy saying, "the building is great, the neighborhood isn't, but I can always get in my car and head to..."

I haven't been following developments on the Tiger Stadium site, but that area needs to come back and hope other development follows.

[Meddle]

When I did the diagram on the park thread, two eyesores I noticed right off were the Postal buildings to the southeast and what appears to be either a city or state maintenance garage to the northwest.

And the Stadium site needs to be left alone, almost as a memorial of sorts. Leave it as a public access site and ballfield.

[schulzte]

Its hard to think about a good use for the entire facility now. This will not be popular, but the perfect use for this facility would have been as one of the casino sites. Think about what an elegant gaming floor and entertainment facility could have been created, with the renovated hotel tower above. Is it even possible to have a fourth casino site? Casino dollars funded the renovation of the most beautiful hotel I've ever seen in West Baden Springs, Indiana [[about $300 million renovation). https://roadtrippers.com/stories/west-baden-springs

I know Detroit has plenty of gambling [[or too much)......but would it be worth having one more to fund a full renovation of Michigan Central Station?

[Lowell]

I have always thoughts that buildings like this one, Lee Plaza [[is that the one on W. Grand Blvd.), etc. are difficult to re-develop not because of the building [[as those who concentrate on buildings, per se), but the neighborhood [[or lack there of).
...
Again, maybe a neighborhood, less expensive than those along Woodward and Brush Park, geared mostly to millennials who work downtown and want to be close to work.

Well now I have to be the sunshine man. There is a neighborhood now, that didn't exist even ten years ago, starting with the Slow's block, spreading to the other side of Michigan, with Two James and other venues to the west. Easily walkable to the south is Mexican Village, Huron Room, Busy Bee and more. The new Tiger Stadium complex promises more activity and Souave's sizable residential project across Trumbull is blooming. If the MCD happened more businesses would flock to that area.

[EastsideAl]

I'm not sure what the concern about the neighborhood is. That neighborhood is currently booming on all sides of MCS, and shows every sign of accelerating rather than flagging.

MCS is currently a drag on the neighborhood, not the other way around. I think if the MCS situation could be stabilized [[not at all an easy task) it would help spur new infill development in the relatively empty areas close to the old station, and be extremely helpful to the people planning the renovation of Roosevelt Park already underway. But Corktown will be fine with or without MCS [[just potentially better with a developed and functioning MCS, whatever that may consist of).

Also, keeping the Tiger Stadium site as open space and a functioning athletic facility, as a living historic site of a sort, will be an overall asset to the neighborhood.

[Meddle]

Like I said on the other thread [[do we need so many?), a rail museum could be a unique draw. If does right to include steam history, railfans may make it a destination point.

[Hermod]

One problem with MCS is prospective parking. As an office building or as condos, where are the people going to park? Like many other large city RR stations, it was designed for many, many trains a day and not much parking. For as few trains as AMTRAK will ever run, it is just not economical as a train station. The economics of a railroad museum are not such as to encourage that unless you find a philanthorpist with deep pockets. Several of the noted railroad museums in the US have gone into bankruptcy.

[MicrosoftFan]

It's a good idea to check out what Cincy Cleveland and KC have done with their historic union stations. Cincy has only one train running through it and KC has 3 I believe, Detroit would have 3 so it is not unreasonable to say MCS could be a train station. With the revival of long distance service to the East via the Pennsylvanian I think the station could also serve an Amtrak lounge and baggage facilities. In Cleveland the station, while not serving trains, has a shopping mall and Gilbert-owned casino. KC turned theirs into a museum and science center. Cincy did the same.

MCS can be revived with possibly a new boutique hotel on some floors, apartments on others, shopping and dining at the base, and a real functioning train station. In addition, the Q Line could easily be extended down Michigan to a new transit center in the center of Roosevelt Park.

[401don]

One problem with MCS is prospective parking. As an office building or as condos, where are the people going to park? Like many other large city RR stations, it was designed for many, many trains a day and not much parking. For as few trains as AMTRAK will ever run, it is just not economical as a train station. The economics of a railroad museum are not such as to encourage that unless you find a philanthorpist with deep pockets. Several of the noted railroad museums in the US have gone into bankruptcy.

I believe a lack of parking would be about as far down the list of obstacles to development as I could possibly come up with.

[mtburb]

It's a good idea to check out what Cincy Cleveland and KC have done with their historic union stations. Cincy has only one train running through it and KC has 3 I believe, Detroit would have 3 so it is not unreasonable to say MCS could be a train station. With the revival of long distance service to the East via the Pennsylvanian I think the station could also serve an Amtrak lounge and baggage facilities.

At last check only two Amtrak trains per direction serve Kansas City. The lone Amtrak route serving Detroit does have six daily trains total [[three per direction), so it could make sense in the long run, especially with those recent plans for a long-distance service running New York-Michigan-Chicago, almost always either an extension of the Pennsylvanian west of Pittsburgh or a reroute of the Lake Shore Limited so that it turns north in Toledo to serve Michigan.

[Meddle]

On rail service, I propose a medium distance tourist excursion that might take a weekend. Run over to the west side of the state and back with stops at some of the scenic areas and towns that still have tracks available.

[Hermod]

It's a good idea to check out what Cincy Cleveland and KC have done with their historic union stations. Cincy has only one train running through it and KC has 3 I believe, Detroit would have 3 so it is not unreasonable to say MCS could be a train station. With the revival of long distance service to the East via the Pennsylvanian I think the station could also serve an Amtrak lounge and baggage facilities. In Cleveland the station, while not serving trains, has a shopping mall and Gilbert-owned casino. KC turned theirs into a museum and science center. Cincy did the same.

MCS can be revived with possibly a new boutique hotel on some floors, apartments on others, shopping and dining at the base, and a real functioning train station. In addition, the Q Line could easily be extended down Michigan to a new transit center in the center of Roosevelt Park.

Richmond VA has several north-south AMTRAK trains running through it and two beautiful train stations. Broad Street Station has been turned into the state science museum. Main Street Station, an architectural treasure, tried to make a go of it as a shopping mall and failed. It is now state offices [[Richmond is the state capitol). AMTRAK has built a generic one story "Amshack" out on the north side of town to handle the trains

[Hermod]

Main Street Station, Richmond, VA


Broad Street Station, Richmond VA


Staples Mill Station, Richmond, VA

[rbdetsport]

I would love to see MCS stay a train station with an added retail destination, boutique hotel, and residential. With the Wolverine, you would see six trains daily.. but then add in a possible commuter rail to Ann Arbor and that is six or seven [[with a midday) trains per day. Then consider the study being done on Detroit-Lansing-Grand Rapids rail, and that is six more trains. Then you are all talking about the Lake Shore running up to Detroit so you have a direct route from New York City to Detroit, that is probably another two or three trains per day. All of that added up is 22 trains per day. Once you start to add commuter rail possibilities into the equation.. I think you see a real need for platforms like MCS is already built for and has the space for.

[MicrosoftFan]

I would prefer Pennsylvanian extension over lakeshore. Would only be about a 16 hr trip from DET to NYP. With track upgrades like on Michigan line could be 14 hr. LSL takes a far north route as well, and less intermediate cities like Pittsburgh and Philly. I say one day DET-NYP, one night DET-NYP, and one day PGH-NYP and DET-PGH

[Gistok]

I wouldn't mind if the Federal Government moved its offices out of the McNamara building into the MCS. They could still use the MCS for trains, adding lines if they can, but the complex is to large to handle the few train passengers that could potentially come thru there.

They could move the FBI, Homeland Security and other federal offices out of the McNamara building and redevelop it for other commercial or retail space.

Thus the Feds would have an overpowering building in Detroit, just like the State of Michigan does in the Cadillac Place [[former GM HQ) in New Center, and like Wayne County does in the Guardian Building.

Plus the MCS federal complex could be surrounded by those Jersey Barriers that other federal offices have to keep the building safe from truck bombers [[aka Oklahoma City). Whenever there is a code red or orange alert downtown, city streets sometimes get closed down.

[Hypestyles]

I guess we'll see. I don't see the DIBC chipping in for the full redevelopment costs, though.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think the station will inevitably be redeveloped. Despite what was posted above, I don't think it can be "taken away" from Moroun. I am sure he would sell for the right price, but the building is not in imminent danger of collapse, in arrears on taxes [[that I know of), etc. You can't just go taking property from people because you disapprove of their handling of said property. I do think if I were the city/state, I would pitch the following to Moroun [[probably the son, since dad is nearing the century mark): turn over or sell the station to a developer & drop lawsuits against the new bridge & we'll assist in getting rid of hurdles for your plans for the new Ambassador bridge, including lobbying Windsor in his behalf [[merits of new Ambassador Bridge are not intended to be discussed here, although I would be happy to if anyone were to start or revive another thread).

The station's biggest assets are its liabilities: its size and its distance from downtown. It would certainly have the power to be create a whole new neighborhood around it. I realize there is a neighborhood currently around it, but a transformed station would redefine the whole area from Corktown to Mexicantown, and could even play into development along the West riverfront.

The station certainly has no future as a rail hub, for reasons discussed at length in many other threads on DY. Among them: too far from downtown; if rail travel in Detroit increased tenfold [[and it won't), it would still not be very much train traffic; current rail routes would need to be [[expensively) rerouted, and require notoriously slow Amtrak approval; space needed for rail and support infrastructure is very large relative to use. Private money would never support putting rail there; public transit money would be supremely wasted, and better spent trying to create other transit options in the area, rather than a pie-in-the-sky lightly used Amtrak hall.

If I had my druthers, the immediate property surrounding the station would be redeveloped into a natural history museum, planetarium, aquarium & hands-on children's museum [[like the science center). The station itself would serve as the common area for those facilities, with ticketing, dining areas, souvenir shops, temporary exhibits, auditorium and Imax theaters. The tower would house recruiting offices for all Michigan colleges, universities & trade schools. This way, school trips to the museums- from kindergarten on up- could include a college/career pitch to kids. Offices for job placement, financial aid, etc could also be there, making for "one stop shopping" for Detroit [[and greater Michigan) families to learn about higher education, jobs and preparation for both. This is just a pipe dream, but if I run into a few billion extra dollars, it is what I would do.

For a private development, I think a multi-use project with some sort of food "marketplace" in the ground floor spaces makes a lot of sense, with potentially a hotel and condos above. Keys to that include establishing adequate parking, making the surrounding blocks less industrial and intimidating, and making the whole area more appealingly walkable than it currently is.

A MCS redevelopment would be a great shot in the arm for efforts to include both BRT and a light rail line along Michigan. I would hope developers would be willing to work with the RTA and QLine planners on that.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Gistok: I don't think the feds would [[or should) spring for the expensive renovation. Government office workers don't need ornate, historic buildings to work from. Also, as someone who has worked in restaurants his whole life, I can tell you the addition of government workers to an area does NOTHING for the local restaurants, bars & shops.

HyperStyles: I think that the Morouns would sell before redevelop the building. Leaving aside their motives for a moment, they aren't developers by trade. So I wouldn't be looking for them to do it. I suspect they are just awaiting the right offer, which is nowadays more plausible than it would have been the last few decades.

[casscorridor]

It will surely be mixed-use.

Hotel, offices and condos in the tower.

Shops and entertainment in the base.

And if we're lucky, an international railway station.

[Honky Tonk]

Has anyone talked to Matty Moroun about this? Maybe get his input about what he thinks we ought to do with his building?

[rex]

only problem for MCS is that it is at the periphery of what is happening in corktown.