Welcome to Dem Land

[Richard]

The FAIR study INCLUDES legal American citizens who are the children of illegal immigrants. If they want to include those kids fine, but they have to also include tax revenue generated by those same kids, WHO ARE LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS, when they enter the work force. The study doesn't do that. This isn't rocket science you guys.

I haven't said anything about the CA budget.

I still am not sure why you keep referring to the FAIR study.

My original post was about the cost of illegal immigrants paid for by the US taxpayers,to which you went off on a tangent about FAIR as a diversion instead of discussing the topic.

Of course you have not said anything about the California budget because it proves my point in which you are trying to displace.

Maybe it is rocket science.

[Richard]

Richard did you happen to catch the three hours of testimony before the house oversight committee today? It was all about that non-existent delayed action status that wasn't revoked.

https://oversight.house.gov/legislat...red-action-for

No but you can watch it here

https://www.c-span.org/video/?464179...d-deportations

As usual it is a bunch of Dems screaming that you are killing kids while not closing their mouth long enough to want to understand the process and how it works.

There is no medical deferred action,they keep calling it that as if it is already a policy or law,they are supposed to be the legislature that creates policy,like the guy said,maybe they should start doing thier jobs.

Notice how the young boy that never received notice was brought as a witness as one that was being sent to his death?

Like I had already explained here it was explained to them,it was an inter agency transfer of an action,it still carried the same policy and standard.

Instead of spending the time on fixing a broken system the Dems have done nothing but scream about the border and coming up with stupid hearings in Oder to make it look like they are doing thier job.

Cortez and Talib are sorry excuses and are the ones that are putting people lives in danger,because they are so busy running thier mouths instead of actually doing thier job.

That is the problem when they allow thier false emotional narrative to get in the way.

The message they are sending is that if you have a relative already in the United States or if you can get across the border,no mater what country you are from,American taxpayers will cover your medical bills for you.

But not if you are a citizen.

This whole thing revolves around less then 1000 out of the millions that are here illegally.

The diseases that they are coming here for are the exact same diseases that people from Canada and the UK come here for that are not covered under thier socialized medical programs because of the intense costs.

The difference is,when a Canadian or UK person comes here for the exact same treatments thier healthcare system pays the bill.

So why is it different when somebody else comes from another South American country that has socialized medicine, but we have to pay the tab?

This is one of the reasons health care for all will never fly,because they want us to pay healthcare for the world,while Americans go without.

California implemented and Obama esk affordable healthcare plan.

Illegals are covered but Americans that cannot afford to pay the plan are fined.

California taxpayers pick up the tab,but the rest of the US taxpayers also pick up the tab through cross funding that is paid by the federal government.

So every taxpayer in the United States is paying for California’s version of health care for all,including free healthcare for illegals.

[oladub]

The children you disrespectfully referred to as anchor babies are not undocumented. Like it or not, they are American citizens and would not be included in that statistic.

Shelby, You know exactly what is meant by anchor baby. "Anchor baby" is a term used to refer to a child born to a non-citizen mother in a country that has birthright citizenship which will therefore help the mother and other family members gain legal residency. -wikipedia

What is derogatory is that the supposed role of the child rather than the child.

You muddle citizenship with costs associated with illegal aliens. Yes, under the present interpretation of the 14th. Amendment any child born here except those of diplomats are subject to the laws of the United States rather than being subjects of their parent's country. But since your thesis was that illegal aliens paid so much in taxes that they more than offset costs they incur, the costs of illegal aliens children, whether born at home or in the U.S. are relevant. With that argument falling apart because it costs more than $13,700/year/child to educate the average K-12 public school student, you introduced two new arguments. The first was that anchor babies should not be counted as a cost incurred by illegal aliens because they were born here. The second was that eventually children of illegal aliens, not the illegal aliens themselves, will maybe pay enough tax money to pay for all the costs incurred by their parents and themselves even though 40% of illegal alien children drop out of high school. Since you do not acknowledge legality, you failed to explain why there are not enough legal aliens and Americans to populate this country.Why do you want a higher birth rate? I thought you supported abortion and green policies. You failed to acknowledge that we also have near record numbers of legal aliens moving to the U.S. offsetting lower domestic birth rates. Since you don't recognize the difference between legal and illegal aliens, you failed to show that the combination of domestic births and legal immigrant births failed to meet your curious [[un)green goal of increasing our population.

You inadvertently, I think, advocate lower wages.

"Should we have a completely open border so that anyone can come in the United States of America? If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that would substantially lower wages in this country. When you have 36-percent of Hispanic kids in this country who can't find jobs and you bring a lot of unskilled workers in the country what do you think happens to that 36-percent of kids of today who are unemployed? 51% of African-American kids." -Bernie before he went full Democrat 7/31/15

[Shelby_]

Shelby, You know exactly what is meant by anchor baby. "Anchor baby" is a term used to refer to a child born to a non-citizen mother in a country that has birthright citizenship which will therefore help the mother and other family members gain legal residency. -wikipedia

What is derogatory is that the supposed role of the child rather than the child.

You muddle citizenship with costs associated with illegal aliens. Yes, under the present interpretation of the 14th. Amendment any child born here except those of diplomats are subject to the laws of the United States rather than being subjects of their parent's country. But since your thesis was that illegal aliens paid so much in taxes that they more than offset costs they incur, the costs of illegal aliens children, whether born at home or in the U.S. are relevant. With that argument falling apart because it costs more than $13,700/year/child to educate the average K-12 public school student, you introduced two new arguments. The first was that anchor babies should not be counted as a cost incurred by illegal aliens because they were born here. The second was that eventually children of illegal aliens, not the illegal aliens themselves, will maybe pay enough tax money to pay for all the costs incurred by their parents and themselves even though 40% of illegal alien children drop out of high school. Since you do not acknowledge legality, you failed to explain why there are not enough legal aliens and Americans to populate this country.Why do you want a higher birth rate? I thought you supported abortion and green policies. You failed to acknowledge that we also have near record numbers of legal aliens moving to the U.S. offsetting lower domestic birth rates. Since you don't recognize the difference between legal and illegal aliens, you failed to show that the combination of domestic births and legal immigrant births failed to meet your curious [[un)green goal of increasing our population.

I DID NOT SAY THAT [[in bold). You put all kinds of words in my mouth except the ones I've actually said.

Everything I have said is in relation to the FAIR "study" ONLY, and why it is flawed.

I'm respectfully withdrawing myself from this exercise in futility. I wish you and Richard continued success fighting windmills.

[Richard]

Anybody watch the Pelosi press conference?

She seems to be having a rough time getting the words out,she got upset after repeated questions about the fantasy impeachment role.

She says,we are following a path,when we find out what the Fu** path we are going to take,She only got the fu part out before catching herself.

Then they bitch about how trump handles press conferences.

She did say that they were there to protect the constitution of the United States.

I am guessing until it comes to guns.

She keeps referring to it as Trumps personal wall,how stupid is she that she does not comprehend that there are a lot of Americans also supporting the wall.

She appears to be having a medical condition that she does not want to accept.

56% of Americans do not support impeachment but yet here they are,then wonder why they keep losing.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/04...for-trump.html

[rb336]

And around 57-59% support Medicare for all, although this from Reuters polling shows support at 64%, so...

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELE...1E0/index.html

56% of Americans do not support impeachment but yet here they are,then wonder why they keep losing.

[Shelby_]

Anybody watch the Pelosi press conference?

She seems to be having a rough time getting the words out,she got upset after repeated questions about the fantasy impeachment role.

She says,we are following a path,when we find out what the Fu** path we are going to take,She only got the fu part out before catching herself.

Then they bitch about how trump handles press conferences.

She did say that they were there to protect the constitution of the United States.

I am guessing until it comes to guns.

She keeps referring to it as Trumps personal wall,how stupid is she that she does not comprehend that there are a lot of Americans also supporting the wall.

She appears to be having a medical condition that she does not want to accept.

56% of Americans do not support impeachment but yet here they are,then wonder why they keep losing.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/04...for-trump.html

Most people were in support of Nixon before the televised hearings. An impeachment inquiry will lay Trump's transgressions out on the table and likely change a lot of minds.

[Richard]

Most people were in support of Nixon before the televised hearings. An impeachment inquiry will lay Trump's transgressions out on the table and likely change a lot of minds.

Lol this is like the Dems 5th attempt after the whole Russians did it.

I think most Americans are just tired of the constant whiny Trump is bad shenanigans,most Americans are smart enough to see when somebody does what they say they are going to do,that holds a lot more respect then all talk and zero action.

[Richard]

And around 57-59% support Medicare for all, although this from Reuters polling shows support at 64%, so...

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELE...1E0/index.html

Actually your link reads

A majority of Americans support expanding the government’s Medicare health insurance program for the elderly, but most still favor a system that also preserves private health insurance.

I guess it is all in how one chooses to read it so.....

[Shelby_]

Lol this is like the Dems 5th attempt after the whole Russians did it.

I think most Americans are just tired of the constant whiny Trump is bad shenanigans,most Americans are smart enough to see when somebody does what they say they are going to do,that holds a lot more respect then all talk and zero action.

Most people I know are just tired of Trump.

[Richard]

Most people I know are just tired of Trump.

That just stands to reason,I never mistook you to be outside of the never Trump crowd.

Are you not just in at least a tiny bit wanting to be on the winning side?
It has to be really tough looking at another 4 years of self imposed hatred.

[Shelby_]

Show me how he can win Richard. Trump can't grow his base. Here in Michigan Trump loses against every Democratic candidate. Every single one. He can't win the election if he can't win Michigan. Polls show Trump loses Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and even Ohio against Biden. And guess what? Even in Florida, O'Rourke, Buttigieg, and Harris are +1, Warren is +4, Sanders is +6 and Biden is +9.

What is Trump's path to victory? Show me the numbers.

[Richard]

Show me how he can win Richard. Trump can't grow his base. Here in Michigan Trump loses against every Democratic candidate. Every single one. He can't win the election if he can't win Michigan. Polls show Trump loses Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and even Ohio against Biden. And guess what? Even in Florida, O'Rourke, Buttigieg, and Harris are +1, Warren is +4, Sanders is +6 and Biden is +9.

What is Trump's path to victory? Show me the numbers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Qv4KB1rqY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHA3XYndZ_0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgbeBE42JI

There is three for you,there are hundreds more.

What is the message of the Democratic Party?

Trump sucks
Trump is a racist
Ban guns but nothing on addressing violence in America.
Trump sucks
Free healthcare for all
Trump is a racist
Free collage for all
Trump sucks
Open borders,ban ice
Trump is a racist
Amnesty for all illegals
Trump is a racist
Reparations for slavery
Trump sucks

Etc etc etc

Candidates

Harris- already was in a position for prison reform but sent many to prison for small amounts of marijuana.

Biden- was already a part of an administration that accomplished little.

Sanders- been in public service for over 40 years pushing the same agenda but is still pushing the same agenda 40 years later.

Warren- been in public office for how long but yet accomplished little or nothing.

Sanders - Vermont a high state tax that people are fleeing.
Harris - California 160,000 homeless mostly centered in two urban areas.

Lots of public office in there with little representation for the ones they were elected to serve.

Trump has done more in 3 years while in office then the ones that have had over 80 years of combined time in order to get something accomplished.

What is the Democratic Party doing different now then they did in 2016 that cost them the election?

Nothing.

And still expecting a different result.

I do not know where you get Trump losses if he does not win Michigan,Democrats do good in urban,is urban shrinking or growing in Michigan and has a republican President ever won before while losing the state of Michigan?

In case you have not noticed but there happens to be a lot of your fellow Michiganders that care about thier country and fellow Americans,otherwise Trump would have never taken the state.

But hey keep going down the path of resistance and claiming the polls proves it because it was such a winning combination last time.

[Richard]

In watching the current debate Binden seems to be the only one that can maintain composure,poor Bernie’s voice seems like it will not make it to 2020.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I'll have the catch the highlights, parsing and parroting. There's always Warren [[made only possible because of the presence of Trump).

Good that Sander's medicare-for-all bunk was challenged, re. removing the private insurance option that many of us wish to retain!

I wonder how many more bizarre promises where made such as the 'carbon free' America [[someone needs a K12 review on what carbon is!).

It's not just the bad stuff!

car·bon di·ox·ide
/ˈˌkärbən dīˈäksīd/
noun: a colorless, odorless gas produced by burning carbon and organic compounds and by respiration. It is naturally present in air [[about 0.03 percent) and is absorbed by plants in photosynthesis.

[Zacha341]

You forgot a couple there you:

Fight White Supremacy
[[white people are racist except us white folk who chant the above)
Trump sucks
Tax the evil rich
[[just don't come after us)
Trump is a racist
Trump sucks

LOL!

What is the message of the Democratic Party?

Trump sucks
Trump is a racist
Ban guns but nothing on addressing violence in America.
Trump sucks
Free healthcare for all
Trump is a racist
Free collage for all
Trump sucks
Open borders,ban ice
Trump is a racist
Amnesty for all illegals
Trump is a racist
Reparations for slavery
Trump sucks

Etc etc etc...

[oladub]

I DID NOT SAY THAT [[in bold). You put all kinds of words in my mouth except the ones I've actually said.

Everything I have said is in relation to the FAIR "study" ONLY, and why it is flawed.

I'm respectfully withdrawing myself from this exercise in futility. I wish you and Richard continued success fighting windmills.

Ah, well then you must think something else if somehow your views are different than your criticism of FAIR for including taxpayer costs for anchor babies as a cost of illegal immigration.

There is something heroic though about fighting windmills or even great white whales against overwhelming odds when they are thought to be the repository of evil. I watched about 20 minutes of last night's Democratic debate, all I could take, and it seemed to be a contest of which candidates could give away the most free stuff. Every program, we are to believe, was going to be paid for somehow by the top 1/10 of the 1%. That'e even more ambitious than Woodrow Wilson's income tax that would only tax the top 4%. At least Wilson abided by the 10th. Amendment by creating the 16th. Amendment to allow a new form of taxation [[on the rich).

The threat of Democratic socialism free stuff promises is more real than windmills and great white whales. I'm moderate so I am optimistic that the on stage economic clowns' narrative will play out more like Eva Peron's Argentina than Chavez' Venezuela. I do agree with you that Democrats have a corporate media fanned tailwind and will likely win in 2020. The only hope I have is that some people are afraid to or refuse to answer polls honestly like in 2016. I haven't been polled but have a Democratic friend who gave some money to a candidate and since then says he must be on list and gets polled frequently. It isn't enough to offset other reasons to believe we we won't have a blue wave. I'm not given to going off with the sheep, baaa, just because everyone else is doing so and I might consequently seem quixotic. That's ok.

[Richard]

^^^ I'll have the catch the highlights, parsing and parroting. There's always Warren [[made only possible because of the presence of Trump).

Good that Sander's medicare-for-all bunk was challenged, re. removing the private insurance option that many of us wish to retain!

I wonder how many more bizarre promises where made such as the 'carbon free' America [[someone needs a K12 review on what carbon is!).

It's not just the bad stuff!

car·bon di·ox·ide
/ˈˌkärbən dīˈäksīd/
noun: a colorless, odorless gas produced by burning carbon and organic compounds and by respiration. It is naturally present in air [[about 0.03 percent) and is absorbed by plants in photosynthesis.

There is a definite switch among the rest of the candidates to retain the option of keeping your existing plan,kinda like Obama’s if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor approach.

They went after Bernie with the whole options verses this is what it is going to be,Bernie’s option would take at least 5 years to implement.

The scary part in medical that nobody is addressing is 90% of all of the ingredients used in our medicine is imported from China,our last penicillin factory closed in 2002.

Tomorrow China could stop the flow and cripple us.

There is a big push in Europe and in the midwestern states to switch our diet to green and zero meat,they are saying the excessive flooding going on in the Midwest is a result of climate change and farming practices.

They forget that the farms were built in flood plains that always flooded in the past but they built dikes to control it.

We cannot control Mother Nature or the climate,every time we try and do it,it becomes a disaster in the making.

The whole climate change really has nothing to do with climate it is about creating another economy,kinda like our Industrial Age but change it to green age.

They say that the temperature has increased 4 degrees sense the 1800s and puts Michigan into the red zone.

So what you guys need to do now is tear down your houses which were built to deal with the cold and build new ones in Oder to prepare for the heat wave.

These people are flipping serious.

[rb336]

What is the message of the Democratic Party?

Trump sucks
Trump is a racist
Ban guns but nothing on addressing violence in America.<PATENTLY untrue. Banning mega-magazines and assault-style weapons, yes, but only a horrible shot needs those for self protection, and they are horrible for hunting>
Trump sucks
Free healthcare for all-<PATENTLY not true. According to Koch-funded studies, overall $10 TRILLION cheaper than what we have over 20 years.>
Trump is a racist
Free collage for all
Trump sucks
Open borders,ban ice <Also PATENTLY untrue, except for some, but ICE CLEARLY needs to be reigned in, and anyone who can't understand that is as dim as a half-watt bulb>
Trump is a racist
Amnesty for all illegals <Also PATENTLY untrue>
Trump is a racist
Reparations for slavery <Some>
Trump sucks

You really LOVE proving how dim you are don't you

[Richard]

You really LOVE proving how dim you are don't you

Says the one that views how good of a shooter one is determined the need of an assault-style weapon.

When was the last time you actually witnessed a weapon assault somebody?

Why do you feel ICE needs to be reined in,when they are following the law as directed to do?

Do you also feel that all law enforcement agencies should have the power to pick and choose which laws they should enforce?

See the difference in actually contributing outside of 6 year old name calling.

Just because you call somebody dim it does not make you any less dimmer,it just proves you position on the scale.

You never commented on your last post where you did not comprehend the link that you posted,while twisting it around to suit your agenda.

[Zacha341]

Let's get back to firsts to understanding the why, I say. What is ICE [[I think that's been forgotten):

https://www.ice.gov/

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a federal law enforcement agency under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, principally responsible for immigration enforcement, with additional responsibilities in countering transnational crime. Wikipedia





Founder: George W. Bush


Founded: March 1, 2003


Headquarters: Washington, D.C.


Jurisdiction: United States


Employees: 20,000+ [[2016)





Director: Derek N. Benner is the Executive Associate Director for Homeland Security Investigations within U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Sorry for the huge space gaps in the above. I cannot edit them out per the usual Edit Post options at this time.

[Zacha341]

Yep, the far left wing of the dem party's demanding proof-tests of orthodoxy and adherence:

AOC launches scathing attack on her own party, saying Democrats' refusal to impeach Trump is a 'bigger national scandal' than 'the president's lawbreaking behavior' over Ukraine

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-scandal.html

[Shelby_]

Yep, the far left wing of the dem party's demanding proof-tests of orthodoxy and adherence:

AOC launches scathing attack on her own party, saying Democrats' refusal to impeach Trump is a 'bigger national scandal' than 'the president's lawbreaking behavior' over Ukraine

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-scandal.html

I don't have a problem with AOC. It's entertaining to watch Republicans get their collective panties in a bunch over everything she says. Overall, I think she's a smart girl who needs to listen more and say less. I think the same about my daughter who is around the same age. My parent's felt the same way about me when I was that age.

On impeachment, I agree with her.

What seems ironic [[to me anyway) is that by inserting partisanship, you've missed the larger point. Democrats have a constitutional duty to impeach. By doing nothing, they are enabling Trump and he will continue committing high crimes and misdemeanors. Pelosi needs to be reminded that some things are more important than being reelected. She took an oath to the constitution, not the Democratic party.

[Canadian Visitor]

I don't have a problem with AOC. It's entertaining to watch Republicans get their collective panties in a bunch over everything she says. Overall, I think she's a smart girl who needs to listen more and say less. I think the same about my daughter who is around the same age. My parent's felt the same way about me when I was that age.

On impeachment, I agree with her.

What seems ironic [[to me anyway) is that by inserting partisanship, you've missed the larger point. Democrats have a constitutional duty to impeach. By doing nothing, they are enabling Trump and he will continue committing high crimes and misdemeanors. Pelosi needs to be reminded that some things are more important than being reelected. She took an oath to the constitution, not the Democratic party.

A few thoughts:

Irrespective of 'duty'; if the Senate will not move on impeachment is there truly virtue in pursuing a non-binding, non-effective action purely as symbolism?

I dislike Trump/his administration as much more more than many.

But I really never have understood the virtue of empty gestures.

If they can pull off the whole process, fine. If not.....its a lot of wasted time and money.

***

Second thought, impeachment, as a process, is really quite suspect.

Not a singe president has ever been removed from office to my understanding.

Only 2 impeachments made to trial in the senate, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton and both avoided removal.

That would seem to make the entire provision null and void.

Perhaps, if one desires a check-and-balance on the President [[any president) its time to give that power back to the people by providing for recall.

One could debate what the standard should be for such a thing; but what I've seen done elsewhere is that 10% of those who legally voted in the previous election in question must sign a petition for recall within a 45 day period.

Once that is satisfied, there is a recall vote [[new election) in which the incumbant may choose to run or not.

Perhaps that is too high or low a barrier, but the idea stands, Congress isn't fit for purpose for the task; as a partisan body in a 2-party system.