Concession Prices & Why People Won't go to LCA

**mikeg19** · July-27-17, 10:01 AM

http://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/2...dium-revealed/

Really interesting article about Fan First Pricing that the NFL's Atlanta Falcons are introducing for their new stadium. The food and beverage pricing is "GASP" more than reasonable. a couple bullets on how it works:

Pricing is set at reasonable amounts, no upcharge. The Falcons do not outsource the vendor contract, rather are a partner in this.
Local restaurants are welcome to serve food at the stadium, provided their is no upcharge over pricing at their actual brick and mortar.
Free pop refills

This kinda got me thinking about LCA and how we are accustomed to paying out the nose for, lets be honest, garbage food and drink options. Yes, in the past few years we have finally started to see some outside options introduced at JLA and Comerica Park. But at that, we all know a $5 Hot N Ready is not $5 at either of those venues and a round of beer for your 4 buddies might run you close to $50.

This concept to me works both for fans and ownership, in that:

The Wings & Pistons, well, suck. And probably will for awhile. And that new arena shine wears off a lot quicker when a team is 11-35 at the All Star Break. Attractive concession price points will be attractive to more fans who might not be willing to shell out big bucks to watch hot dumpster fire garbage on the ice/court.
Volume. There are a lot of people who refuse to spend money once inside JLA/Comerica because of the pricing. How much money is Illitch & Co. losing by pricing those people out? If the pricing was in line with the Falcons model, you would attract those individuals to purchase goods/food, as well as probably increase the spending of those already buying items in the arena.
It makes going to a game economically doable for a family. Most middle class families can no longer afford to go to a game. After dropping a couple hundred on tix [[don't start quoting stories where you found 4 tix to a game on a Tuesday night in February in the nosebleeds at the last second for below face value), most people can't handle the ancillary costs of parking, dinner, concessions. You could be looking at a $400-$500 night, which is insanity. You are attracting more disposable income that might overlook you from the onset.

Obviously, it's a tough sell to ownership. But I think as a society we are starting to view sports as less important. The incentive to go to a game and watch it live has been marginalized by the fact that A) 60" HDTV TV's cost a fraction of what they used to, so anyone can buy one B) Security crack downs make getting into a venue a long painful process C) You can eat, drink what you want D) Use you own bathroom E) Pause tv, replays, multi camera angles to make the viewing experience better.

I think we are almost at the tipping point where people are going to start revolting and not attending games anymore. We are already seeing it at the NCAA level with half full stadiums and ticket renewal packages plummeting [[seat license garbage partially to blame). And when you have an on field/court/ice product that is lacking in viewability and excitement, why would I want to blow $300-$400 when I can use that for a multitude of other things I'd get much more enjoyment out of?

Obviously the Lions are a different animal with the NFL, but I think people are getting to that point in the near future.

I'm wondering where people are at on this. I'm very curious to see how this model is going to work and if other teams will eventually move to this model. You would think with public funding going into all these new arena's now, it would be a "good will" or public relations thing to say "Hey, thanks for helping fund this thing, we are going to cut you a break when you come".

Thoughts?

**Meddle** · July-27-17, 10:38 AM

"Thoughts? "

Last time I was at any major league game was at Tiger Stadium when we paid $2 [[I think) for bleacher seats and a buck for a hot dog. Or was it 2 for a buck?

**EGrant** · July-27-17, 03:26 PM

Well said. I hope prices go down at LCA as well, but I have my doubts. I used to get a concessions discount [[even on booze!) with my Pistons season tickets at The Palace, but that goes away next season. My rep said they can't control discounts since it's Olympia in charge of pricing.

The bubble is going to burst, especially if we go into a little bit of a recession. One of the first things people will cut out of their discretionary income is concerts and sports, especially when a bad Hot and Ready costs $20 and both teams are not doing so hot.

I also priced out my Pistons seat using Red Wings prices and it was about 4x more expensive. Unbelievable, especially for that dumpster fire of a team.

**mtburb** · July-27-17, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

The bubble is going to burst, especially if we go into a little bit of a recession. One of the first things people will cut out of their discretionary income is concerts and sports, especially when a bad Hot and Ready costs $20 and both teams are not doing so hot.

I also priced out my Pistons seat using Red Wings prices and it was about 4x more expensive. Unbelievable, especially for that dumpster fire of a team.

Well, if America does end up in that recession and by that point the Red Wings and Pistons [[and Tigers too) continue performing the same way they had this year during that recession, then maybe you will be able to get concessions at the same prices you had been paying with your season tickets, but without the season ticket part.

Remember what the Ford Field experience was when the Lions went 0-16 right in the middle of the Great Recession?

**jackie5275** · July-27-17, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I think we are almost at the tipping point where people are going to start revolting and not attending games anymore.

I don't know if that will be true about baseball. Even when the Tigers are total chumps like in the mid to late 70s and the lost decade of 1995-2005, they still drew over a million fans each year. There's something about a trip to the ballpark that is still favorable to folks. Plus, at Comerica Park, you can bring a cooler of your own food if you don't want to pay outrageous concession prices.

I know the Tigers on the skids right now, but still they've drawn nearly 1.5 million already this season. The Red Wings? I can't say. I've not been to a hockey game in nearly 25 yrs. The Pistons? I went to a few games this year. Yes, the arena was only 40-50% full each time. I suspect it's because of their play, but also because driving out to the Palace is a hike for many folks who will probably show up at the new place. Although, metro Detroit is a sports hungry area. I've not looked at other cities, but I know many aren't as fervent as here which may play a factor in empty sports seats.

Regarding the Falcons pricing, I like it and hope to see it duplicated elsewhere.

**EGrant** · July-27-17, 04:34 PM

I think baseball will be ok, because going to a game is as much about being outside in the summer as it is about baseball. And you can usually snag tickets for $10 in the upper deck.

**401don** · July-27-17, 05:09 PM

Partnering with Stubhub has been a savior for professional teams. Not only do they get a piece of the action, but it allows teams to dump their tickets cheap and still maintain the "integrity" of their prices. In addition you are seeing more family value packs at Tiger games and will see more of this at Wings/Pistons games if it becomes necessary. Based on what I see at most games, it's the cheap ticket that will get them in the door and once there, most people [[not me!) don't hesitate to empty their wallets on high concession prices.

**emu steve** · July-27-17, 05:39 PM

Don, agree with your points.

And StubHub allow buyers to tickets, e.g., season ticket plans, and sell the unused tickets there instead of eating them.

I don't feel sorry for attendance dips in pro sports. They use 'dynamic pricing' which means that tickets for certain games cost a lot more.

Bottom line: Attendance may go down but revenue can still increase.

**Bigb23** · July-27-17, 06:59 PM

Can't afford and don't care about live concerts and games anymore. [[Old age?)

But this doesn't help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70wDh9gDiAQ

And get off my lawn !!!!!

Except for Ray1936 -

Hey, you get off my gravel and cactus !!!!

**Zacha341** · July-27-17, 09:27 PM

Yep, not much into sports but I see how the tipping point is nearing. $400 a pop for two or three folks [[sans dinner) is pushing up to the higher end of entertainment unless your income is truly very tidy!

What's worst is that they will increase the pricing even more as the sales and attendance decline, which will further decrease attendance, blah de blah.

Not sure what the solution is?

Originally Posted by mikeg19

...The incentive to go to a game and watch it live has been marginalized by the fact that A) 60" HDTV TV's cost a fraction of what they used to, so anyone can buy one B) Security crack downs make getting into a venue a long painful process C) You can eat, drink what you want D) Use you own bathroom E) Pause tv, replays, multi camera angles to make the viewing experience better.

I think we are almost at the tipping point where people are going to start revolting and not attending games anymore....

**Zacha341** · July-27-17, 09:31 PM

That video was wild! Best drink at home!! That's why even when grocery shopping it pays to read and compare ounces. Rather than just looking at packaging and bottle shaping!

Originally Posted by Bigb23

...this doesn't help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70wDh9gDiAQ

**Zacha341** · July-27-17, 09:34 PM

Yep, I have actually enjoyed the b-ball games just for the outside ambiance of it all! And cheap prices!

Originally Posted by EGrant

I think baseball will be ok, because going to a game is as much about being outside in the summer as it is about baseball. And you can usually snag tickets for $10 in the upper deck.

**emu steve** · July-27-17, 11:03 PM

I worry about prices to good events yet people seemingly are able to pay them.

NBA tickets are hot items in most cities and are not cheap.

**Bigb23** · July-28-17, 06:42 AM

Yep, I have actually enjoyed the b-ball games just for the outside ambiance of it all! And cheap prices!

I will check out the pro baseball in Utica this year, and am STILL waiting on pro - semi pro football. We need at least one step up between high school football and the majors like U of M or College to NFL.

Is Pontiac's Wisner stadium still there?

**401don** · July-28-17, 07:11 AM

Minor league baseball is fun. I attended an Erie Seawolves game last week. Lots of Tigers shirts there. $15 to sit beside the scouts, 5 rows behind home plate, plus the entertainment was cowboy-monkey rodeo!

**mikeg19** · July-28-17, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bigb23

I will check out the pro baseball in Utica this year, and am STILL waiting on pro - semi pro football. We need at least one step up between high school football and the majors like U of M.

Is Pontiac's Wisner stadium still there?

We live nearby and haven't attended a game yet, but I have several friends, one who is very involved in area youth baseball and knows the game well, and he has said that the level of play is pretty good. Also, the value and experience is well above average, so I'm looking forward to attending one soon. I recently read that a minor hickey team was going to start playing in St Clair Shores or Mt. Clemens, so that may be worth checking out as well. It would be nice if we had something on par with Grand Rapids Griffins, but that for obvious reasons won't happen.

When I looked at the article initially, I thought it was a novel concept. Now that I have a family and two young boys, I understand the allure of minor league teams for a family night out. The kids, for the most part, do not care if they are watching Miguel Cabrera or Mike Davis from Macomb Community College hit a ball. A hot dog, pop, and fun activities around the park are the draw for them. And if the level of play is adaquate, then I have no issue spending a quarter of the price to attend with my family and give them that experience. Not to say a Tigers or Wings game here or there is out of the question, but the regularity of attending those teams games has dropped dramatically due to pricing. I don't see how a downward trend is not forthcoming given the indicators already seen in some markets.

**emu steve** · July-28-17, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

"Thoughts? "

Last time I was at any major league game was at Tiger Stadium when we paid $2 [[I think) for bleacher seats and a buck for a hot dog. Or was it 2 for a buck?

I'm surprised you can remember. I probably did same but I'll be damn if I can remember [[ or maybe back then my dad ponied up the money - I got to save the paper route money).

**ABetterDetroit** · July-28-17, 10:04 AM

The very least they could do is give Detroit residents 50% off at the concession stands for producing proof of residency.

They chalked up 100s of millions for the venues.

**EGrant** · July-28-17, 10:09 AM

People wanting low ticket prices, cheap food and beer, and an entertaining environment sounds like an argument for DCFC...

**casscorridor** · July-28-17, 10:20 AM

It's common knowledge the Illitch's are slimy people peddling low-grade products, while always looking for a government handout.

**emu steve** · July-28-17, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

http://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/2...dium-revealed/

Really interesting article about Fan First Pricing that the NFL's Atlanta Falcons are introducing for their new stadium. The food and beverage pricing is "GASP" more than reasonable. a couple bullets on how it works:

Pricing is set at reasonable amounts, no upcharge. The Falcons do not outsource the vendor contract, rather are a partner in this.
Local restaurants are welcome to serve food at the stadium, provided their is no upcharge over pricing at their actual brick and mortar.
Free pop refills

This kinda got me thinking about LCA and how we are accustomed to paying out the nose for, lets be honest, garbage food and drink options. Yes, in the past few years we have finally started to see some outside options introduced at JLA and Comerica Park. But at that, we all know a $5 Hot N Ready is not $5 at either of those venues and a round of beer for your 4 buddies might run you close to $50.

This concept to me works both for fans and ownership, in that:

The Wings & Pistons, well, suck. And probably will for awhile. And that new arena shine wears off a lot quicker when a team is 11-35 at the All Star Break. Attractive concession price points will be attractive to more fans who might not be willing to shell out big bucks to watch hot dumpster fire garbage on the ice/court.
Volume. There are a lot of people who refuse to spend money once inside JLA/Comerica because of the pricing. How much money is Illitch & Co. losing by pricing those people out? If the pricing was in line with the Falcons model, you would attract those individuals to purchase goods/food, as well as probably increase the spending of those already buying items in the arena.
It makes going to a game economically doable for a family. Most middle class families can no longer afford to go to a game. After dropping a couple hundred on tix [[don't start quoting stories where you found 4 tix to a game on a Tuesday night in February in the nosebleeds at the last second for below face value), most people can't handle the ancillary costs of parking, dinner, concessions. You could be looking at a $400-$500 night, which is insanity. You are attracting more disposable income that might overlook you from the onset.

Obviously, it's a tough sell to ownership. But I think as a society we are starting to view sports as less important. The incentive to go to a game and watch it live has been marginalized by the fact that A) 60" HDTV TV's cost a fraction of what they used to, so anyone can buy one B) Security crack downs make getting into a venue a long painful process C) You can eat, drink what you want D) Use you own bathroom E) Pause tv, replays, multi camera angles to make the viewing experience better.

I think we are almost at the tipping point where people are going to start revolting and not attending games anymore. We are already seeing it at the NCAA level with half full stadiums and ticket renewal packages plummeting [[seat license garbage partially to blame). And when you have an on field/court/ice product that is lacking in viewability and excitement, why would I want to blow $300-$400 when I can use that for a multitude of other things I'd get much more enjoyment out of?

Obviously the Lions are a different animal with the NFL, but I think people are getting to that point in the near future.

I'm wondering where people are at on this. I'm very curious to see how this model is going to work and if other teams will eventually move to this model. You would think with public funding going into all these new arena's now, it would be a "good will" or public relations thing to say "Hey, thanks for helping fund this thing, we are going to cut you a break when you come".

Thoughts?

My feelings about sports and I do attend.

It isn't the price so much as it is the quality of the product [[team).

Most cities can fill their stadiums/arena with high priced tickets and concessions IF the product ON THE FIELD [[not necessarily the hot dogs) is good.

To the teams and the 'law of supply and demand' there are enough patrons with sufficient financial resources to pay exorbitant prices for an event they want to see. Do folks with more modest financial resources get priced out? Yes. But what are the teams to do? If they sold Lions lower level tickets for $50, folks would buy them and re-sell them for $150. There are very strong primary and secondary markets for tickets [[e.g., StubHub).

I was stunned looking at the price of tickets for the NBA playoffs. It almost seemed that there was no limit as to what could be charged.

This is also true in the NFL. Last Thanksgiving i paid almost 200 bucks for a lower level ticket [[around the 10 - 20 yard lines) for the Vikings. The game sold out. I don't even remember how much my burger cost so it couldn't have been too crazy.

**emu steve** · July-28-17, 11:25 AM

For those who aren't sports fans, the advent of StubHub, etc. has created a virtual seamless market for tickets. When I go to events I check the team's ticket site and see what's available and prices. Then I go to StubHub and see what's there. Then I decide what tickets I prefer. More often then not I buy my tickets through StubHub. That often means I'm buying someone season ticket for a particular game and the seat is better than available from the team.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-30-17, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

I don't know if that will be true about baseball. Even when the Tigers are total chumps like in the mid to late 70s and the lost decade of 1995-2005, they still drew over a million fans each year. There's something about a trip to the ballpark that is still favorable to folks. Plus, at Comerica Park, you can bring a cooler of your own food if you don't want to pay outrageous concession prices.

I know the Tigers on the skids right now, but still they've drawn nearly 1.5 million already this season. The Red Wings? I can't say. I've not been to a hockey game in nearly 25 yrs. The Pistons? I went to a few games this year. Yes, the arena was only 40-50% full each time. I suspect it's because of their play, but also because driving out to the Palace is a hike for many folks who will probably show up at the new place. Although, metro Detroit is a sports hungry area. I've not looked at other cities, but I know many aren't as fervent as here which may play a factor in empty sports seats.

Regarding the Falcons pricing, I like it and hope to see it duplicated elsewhere.

In regards to the Pistons, if they win, they will come. When they were the dominant team in the NBA Eastern Conference in the mid- to- late 2000's, when they won a title and went to 6 straight conference finals, the Palace led the league in sellouts for a few years. I'm sure the same could be said for the Red Wings, when they went on their run. The Tigers do well regardless of record, as do the Lions. If the Lions ever make the SB, this town will go bonkers.

**emu steve** · July-30-17, 12:26 PM

Agree. And the Tigers drew what 3M a couple times in a stadium which only seats 41K. That means a lot of sellouts...

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · July-30-17, 01:21 PM

The premise of this thread is silly. Sports team owners [[and anyone else selling anything) are free to charge whatever they want. We are free to choose to spend or not spend money. If too many people stop spending money, they would lower prices. You know what I do when something costs more than it is worth to me? I don't buy the product.

The notion that LCA prices would be so high that no one would want to go is absurd, because demand drives prices. When the arena regularly is half full for Red Wings games, I assure you they will take corrective action. Until then, I think they are doing just fine.

Oh, also: you can eat and drink all you want before and after the game if you are too cheap to pay concession prices. Everyone can go a few hours without eating. Treating expensive concession prices as some sort of egregious human rights violation is a very self-centered, first-world point-of-view.