Buy American is a dead slogan

[O3H]

Price dictates the market, regardless of slogans

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017...ican-poll.html

[Jimaz]

The good news for U.S. factories is that Americans like the quality of many domestic goods.

I have learned that a lack of quality will cost you far more money in the long run.

I bought a pair of cheap boots that seemed fine until I noticed the laces were deteriorating. At first I suspected the laces themselves. On closer inspection the problem was that the eyelets had been punched too fast. They split, leaving permanent sharp edges that were shredding the laces. The very part designed to protect the laces was instead destroying them. I put up with this until the soles wore out [[which didn't take long).

Slow to learn, I bought another pair of cheap boots. This time a piece inside the heel broke loose, exposing my socks to a rough surface underneath. With every step the shoes were shredding my socks. I put up with this until the soles wore out [[which didn't take long).

Finally I wised up and bought a pair of <brand name omitted> shoes "Made in USA." Yes, they were pricey but they have none of the above problems. The soles aren't wearing nearly as fast [[or at all, as far as I can tell).

Moral of the story: You can save a few pennies right now but without quality, you'll spend dollars more in the long run buying fast-wearing shoes more often plus more shoelaces and more socks too!

I knew a guy in Phoenix who loved his cowboy boots. [[Granted, not in style in Michigan.) I was floored at the high price. He explained why it's well worth it: Every piece of a cowboy boot is designed to be repaired. As long as your shoe size doesn't change, you can wear the same boots for life!

[Richard]

^ that x 100

Wheel barrows were mentioned,if you go to the town dump you see lots of fairly new rusted out cheap ones,and hundreds of Bbq grills.

They have a saying that the poor cannot afford to buy cheap products because you buy the same thing over and over again.

I try and competive shop because I am frugal,but when it comes to paying more for a quality made in America product I will do it.

Unless I need a cheap tool for one job then it is habor freight and hope it will last long enough to even do that job.

The other thing is,I do not mind paying a little bit more if I know that somewhere else in the country is supporting a family because of it.

Not sure why OP choose that thread title unless the next fixation is to shoot anybody that buys made in America products.

[Canadian Visitor]

The way to address this [[or its equivalent, for me 'buy Canada' etc.

Is to both impose certain minimum standards of quality, where practical; and to penalize goods made under profoundly poor environmental or labour conditions.

Other countries do this to the United States [[and not unjustifiably may I add).

Your national standards on food production leave something to be desired [[see pink slime, chlorinated chicken, and growth hormones in milk cattle among other issues). I should add here, Canada isn't pristine in such matters, just not quite as bad.

But I digress.

The point is that by imposing standards on imports, be it cars or tools etc. to say 'Thou Shalt' make something this good, or for instance, for simplicity's sake, impose minimum warranty requirements); along w/penalizing if labour wages in the originating country are below 'x' on a Purchasing-Power-Parity basis.

These options exist.

Governments in much of the world lack enthusiasm for using such tools.

The United States being an example of note.

[Wesley Mouch]

I support buying American, but its a mistake to believe that all American-made products are better than foreign made. We are at our best when we buy what's best -- regardless of origin.

When our politicians decide, as Trump does, that they want us to Buy American -- it works against quality. We should be free to buy good products from abroad, and reject bad products made in the USA.

[Wintersmommy]

I love the idea, but its super hard to execute fully. that being said I have turned to buying old used Made In America items. Examples include a metal sprinkler made right here in MI. Built to last, only thing in need of changing or repair is the rubber washer. otherwise it will outlast me. Vintage Toaster, after replacing 5 cheap [[and not so cheap) toasters that sucked or died I went back to a 1947 Toastmaster model we had in the basement. Had it cleaned and the cord replaced, and have never looked back. Perfect toast in under 1 minute. And as soon as my brand new washer dies in a year or two I will look to replace it with an old Maytag or Whirlpool pre 1980.

the quality of stuff made today in the US can be great, but it can also be as cheap as the foreign stuff.

[Ray1936]

Bought a new home here in Nevada in 2006. Built by Pulte, who started in the Detroit area. Fine home except I've only had one problem. I've had to replace all the GFCI outlets [[about six) because they kept kicking off for no apparent reason. When I took the installed ones out, what did my blurry eyes see? "Made in China". Ones I have now are made in USA and nary a kickoff in the last eight years.

Easy fix, just shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[easternshorebird]

Too many American companies now are making it difficult, if not impossible, to ascertain just where products are coming from before the purchase. Especially if you live in a rural area, stores are far away, and are obliged to buy a lot of stuff online.
Ordered an Inline GFCI Cord [[from Home Depot) set I needed for an outside outlet that I plug my mower into. It came from Tower Manufacturing, based in R.I, and a very big leader in electric and wiring stuff. It wasn't cheap, either, but I don't mind paying extra for the extra comfort zone with anything electrical.
Sure enough, after unwrapping, in the fine print is "made in China".
So far, it seems to be working properly. But deep down inside me is this growing primal fear, distrust of the thing, every time I use it.
Needed a new toaster oven, got a Black and Decker model on sale at Walmart. The Chinese failed to punch out the specs correctly for the crumb tray. Maybe their abacus malfunctioned. When I went to fit it in the bottom of the oven it wouldn't go, couldn't be forced. A couple you-know-what hairs too wide.
Go back 30 miles to Walmart, hassle with exchange? Hell, no. Since the crumb tray was made of cheap, ultra-thin metal, it was easy enough to bend one side back about 1/4 inch, then flatten it down with my trusty rubber mallet. Presto!

As you say: Easy fix, just shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[Zacha341]

In many cases it is near impossible to buy American. However, on eBay for example I will pay a bit extra to purchase from a USA seller. The wait is less and I prefer to support local sellers!

[oladub]

I only buy GM and Ford products made in the US although my wife has a Tesla Model 3 on order - also made in the US. I realize that Toyota has a great reputation but no one ever argues that the Manhattan tribe made a good deal paying a premium for higher grade European beads. The premium was and is too high with the cost of unemployed Americans who have to be added to tax rolls often forgotten in the equation. We have a great trade agreement with Canada allowing an equal number or value, I forget which, of vehicles to be sold in each direction duty free. That would be a desirable agreement to have with other nations. Why is it, by the way, that almost every Asian-American drives an Asian name tag car? As much as I respect Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics, they seem as unconcerned about fellow Americans' welfare when buying cars as Democrats. At least Democrats benefit by creating needy classes who vote Democrat, as in Flint, but what do Asian-Americans get out of depressing US workers?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I only buy GM and Ford products made in the US although my wife has a Tesla Model 3 on order - also made in the US. I realize that Toyota has a great reputation but no one ever argues that the Manhattan tribe made a good deal paying a premium for higher grade European beads. The premium was and is too high with the cost of unemployed Americans who have to be added to tax rolls often forgotten in the equation. We have a great trade agreement with Canada allowing an equal number or value, I forget which, of vehicles to be sold in each direction duty free. That would be a desirable agreement to have with other nations. Why is it, by the way, that almost every Asian-American drives an Asian name tag car? As much as I respect Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics, they seem as unconcerned about fellow Americans' welfare when buying cars as Democrats. At least Democrats benefit by creating needy classes who vote Democrat, as in Flint, but what do Asian-Americans get out of depressing US workers?

. I guess my flag waving Trump loving GOP neighbors didn't get memo that conservatives and conservatives only care about US workers when they bought their Lexus and Acura. Guess I made a mistake with my Buick too. I'd also suggest that you stay out of the Tesla or people will think you believe that climate change is real. Great bit of racial stereotyping though with the Asian comments. Now it's time for me to continue my search for made in the USA Trump branded products.

[SammyS]

I wouldn't blame or credit any particular administration in regard to their push to buy American. These phases are only a component of the larger business cycle that ebbs and flows like a pendulum. The prior administration may have ended at the peak of our outsourcing cycle where most jobs and products found a home abroad, and in the US's case, China. Europe experienced the Eastern Europe push. This administration just happens to be tagging where the other left off.

It comes down to economics or more precisely, inflation stability.

During the 90's, the Developed World experienced massive economic growth through the tech boom. Wages increased and credit expansion started to explode [[true definition of inflation). In order to stave off price or retail inflation [[cost of goods and services), goods had to be imported from lower cost countries who's currencies were pegged so that any appreciation/depreciation would not be noticed. Germany and France formed the EU [[EURO) and Chinese Yuan was pegged to the USD through Surplus $'s to US Treasury swaps. Don't believe the lie about us trying to stop China's currency manipulation. It was always part of the plan.

As the years rolled by and most of the country was getting drunk on easy credit and home equity, the US manufacturing sector started feeling the pain of these disastrous economic maneuvers that primarily benefited the Government [[endless war bucks through sales of UST's and USB's) and industrial behemoths that front ran the fertile Emerging Markets, especially the Auto's. Michigan felt the brunt of this pain and amongst the earliest into recession and the housing bust. We are also likely the last to fully recover since we are so heavily tied to capital intensive manufacturing.

The buck stops when the public has had enough. US wages have been stagnant whilst those in the emerging markets have spiked. China are already finding it harder to maintain the peg exacerbated by capital out flows at an accelerating pace [[land banking by Chinese nationals in foreign RE markets).

So I say that we are at the end of this business cycle and China will likely see a deflationary implosion the likes of Japan in the late 80's. Naturally, Americans will always consume so product must come from somewhere, hence, the "buy American" slogan is back.

[oladub]

. I guess my flag waving Trump loving GOP neighbors didn't get memo that conservatives and conservatives only care about US workers when they bought their Lexus and Acura. Guess I made a mistake with my Buick too. I'd also suggest that you stay out of the Tesla or people will think you believe that climate change is real. Great bit of racial stereotyping though with the Asian comments. Now it's time for me to continue my search for made in the USA Trump branded products.

I don't know how much this has changed since 2005 but "buyers of American cars tend to be Republican -- except, for some reason, those who buy Pontiacs, who tend to be Democrats. Foreign-brand compact cars are usually bought by Democrats -- but not Mini Coopers, which are bought by almost equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans. And Volvos may not actually represent quite what you think." -NY Times

I guess I'm guilty of racial stereotyping if I credited "Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics." but they deserved those kudos. I forgot to mention their low crime rates. I feel sorry for people who are culturally incapable or afraid to point out the obvious.

I used to live in a house shared by an aunt and uncle who worked for Hudson Motors and then Dodge. When we had recessions in Detroit, he sometimes was without a job for months. He would go to the unemployment office early before the line wrapped around the block. That was before Congress reduced tariffs on Asian cars to spur the Japanese and Korean economies to pump them up as our allies. Nevermind what it did to auto workers and their communities. It worked though. Americans started buying Asian cars. US auto factories closed. Flint and Detroit died. It wasn't just the politicians who hurt US auto workers, their families, and their communities, It was everyone who betrayed US workers buying foreign cars. It happened that Democrats are statistically more likely to buy foreign cars than Republicans. African-Americans have largely replaced Polish factory workers to the extent there are still auto assembly jobs. Buying foreign cars, or more correctly, foreign content is one of the more politically regressive personal things someone can do.

[Pat001]

Even if you want to “buy American,” an “American” car isn’t what it used to be. A Lincoln MKZ is 26 percent U.S./Canada content and it is built in Mexico. The most popular passenger car in America is the Toyota Camry, which is assembled Georgetown, KY and Lafayette, IN and is 75 percent U.S./Canadian content. A Honda Accord is 70 percent U.S./Canadian content and the Accord is assembled in Marysville, OH. Here's a shot of the Accord's window sticker:



BTW, General Motors is planning to build Buicks in China and ship them to the U.S.

[Jimaz]

...A Honda Accord is 70 percent U.S./Canadian content and the Accord is assembled in Marysville, OH....

That's a reliable car too. A recent article ranked it number five in "Americaness." They said the only reason it didn't rank higher is that the profits go to Japan. Ford F150 ranked highest.

[coracle]

Whenever I'm buying anything I alway TRY to buy American made or a product with the most American content. I don't buy anything that carries a Japanese name wherever it's made because "they" are so insular. I weakened about 10 years ago when I needed a Snowblower. I bought a Honda for financial reasons and [[I thought) quality. NEVER again. It proved to be CRAP. I also try to buy from local stores rather than Amazon and the like. But it ain't easy!

[oladub]

Even if you want to “buy American,” an “American” car isn’t what it used to be. A Lincoln MKZ is 26 percent U.S./Canada content and it is built in Mexico. The most popular passenger car in America is the Toyota Camry, which is assembled Georgetown, KY and Lafayette, IN and is 75 percent U.S./Canadian content. A Honda Accord is 70 percent U.S./Canadian content and the Accord is assembled in Marysville, OH. Here's a shot of the Accord's window sticker,
BTW, General Motors is planning to build Buicks in China and ship them to the U.S.

Agreed, US content has more to do with US jobs than make. However, how many Japanese assembly lines in the US are union and are helping pay down long term US auto industry pension legacies? One I'm not too concerned about is what percentage of minorities are employed by, for instance, a Japanese assembly plant in Kentucky vs. a Ford assembly plant in SE Michigan but I would think this would be an issue liberals should consider. Also, foreign assembly plants in the US have foreign headquarters where, if Asian, there might be a glass ceiling in management for women. That's what you support with your dollars when [[impersonal) you buy foreign content or from an Asian company. As Jamez pointed out, the profits go abroad too.

You correctly mentioned that foreign companies assembling cars in the US sometimes do use more US content than US name tag cars assembled in the US. That does somewhat offset foreign management and profits. As for Buick importing Chinese cars taxpayers after Obama helped bail out GM, its a slap in the face to US taxpayers. I'd suggest an import tax on any Chinese built car above and beyond the number of US made cars that are sold to China.

[1953]

The way to address this [[or its equivalent, for me 'buy Canada' etc.

Is to both impose certain minimum standards of quality, where practical; and to penalize goods made under profoundly poor environmental or labour conditions.

Other countries do this to the United States [[and not unjustifiably may I add).

Your national standards on food production leave something to be desired [[see pink slime, chlorinated chicken, and growth hormones in milk cattle among other issues). I should add here, Canada isn't pristine in such matters, just not quite as bad.

But I digress.

The point is that by imposing standards on imports, be it cars or tools etc. to say 'Thou Shalt' make something this good, or for instance, for simplicity's sake, impose minimum warranty requirements); along w/penalizing if labour wages in the originating country are below 'x' on a Purchasing-Power-Parity basis.

These options exist.

Governments in much of the world lack enthusiasm for using such tools.

The United States being an example of note.

I think your reference to American food standards is laughable -- Chinese consumers are clamoring for U.S. prepared food products because of our high food safety standards.

[Richard]

Or in the U.K. Where you do not know if one is eating horse meat or beef.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1914172/la...culture-union/

“This government has a lot to say about protecting Canadians and I’m hoping they realize that these are more than just numbers on paper … There are lives at risk – the real likelihood that people are going to die.”

[O3H]

One in five - cars built in the North American Free Trade Agreement zone
comes from Mexico.

Popular sport-utility models in Mexican factories helped spur
a 16-percent increase in production of light vehicles in Mexico
during the first six months of the year compared with the same period in 2016.

Mexico builds a superior quality product - to that made in the USA.
J.D. Power 2016 Mexico Sales Satisfaction Index [[SSI) Study

[oladub]

One in five - cars built in the North American Free Trade Agreement zone
comes from Mexico.

Popular sport-utility models in Mexican factories helped spur
a 16-percent increase in production of light vehicles in Mexico
during the first six months of the year compared with the same period in 2016.

Mexico builds a superior quality product - to that made in the USA.

A by-product of cars built with foreign content is the creation of rustbelt towns like Flint with physical deterioration, unemployment, welfare, and crime. US auto makers received bailout money at the same time they were building better plants in Mexico and China. Germany requires auto makers to take responsibility for recycling their cars. The US doesn't even require auto makers to take responsibility for US communities where they close factories to transfer production to countries with lower labor costs. An import tax to pay down US company pension legacy costs, provide education, retraining, unemployment, welfare, and offset lower property taxes would go a long way to pay for the damages caused by shuttering US factories in search for cheaper foreign labor.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I don't know how much this has changed since 2005 but "buyers of American cars tend to be Republican -- except, for some reason, those who buy Pontiacs, who tend to be Democrats. Foreign-brand compact cars are usually bought by Democrats -- but not Mini Coopers, which are bought by almost equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans. And Volvos may not actually represent quite what you think." -NY Times

I guess I'm guilty of racial stereotyping if I credited "Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics." but they deserved those kudos. I forgot to mention their low crime rates. I feel sorry for people who are culturally incapable or afraid to point out the obvious.

I used to live in a house shared by an aunt and uncle who worked for Hudson Motors and then Dodge. When we had recessions in Detroit, he sometimes was without a job for months. He would go to the unemployment office early before the line wrapped around the block. That was before Congress reduced tariffs on Asian cars to spur the Japanese and Korean economies to pump them up as our allies. Nevermind what it did to auto workers and their communities. It worked though. Americans started buying Asian cars. US auto factories closed. Flint and Detroit died. It wasn't just the politicians who hurt US auto workers, their families, and their communities, It was everyone who betrayed US workers buying foreign cars. It happened that Democrats are statistically more likely to buy foreign cars than Republicans. African-Americans have largely replaced Polish factory workers to the extent there are still auto assembly jobs. Buying foreign cars, or more correctly, foreign content is one of the more politically regressive personal things someone can do.

I note that you omitted your prior comment about Asian Americans being " as unconcerned about American workers as Democrats....". Perhaps you should think about Vincent Chin before making some of your assinine comments. Btw, I'm still looking for those domestic Trump goods.....

[oladub]

I note that you omitted your prior comment about Asian Americans being " as unconcerned about American workers as Democrats....". Perhaps you should think about Vincent Chin before making some of your assinine comments. Btw, I'm still looking for those domestic Trump goods.....

My previous quote, in full, pertaining to Asian-Americans buying foreign cars: "Why is it, by the way, that almost every Asian-American drives an Asian name tag car? As much as I respect Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics, they seem as unconcerned about fellow Americans' welfare when buying cars as Democrats. At least Democrats benefit by creating needy classes who vote Democrat, as in Flint, but what do Asian-Americans get out of depressing US workers?"

Notice the word "respect" that I used to generalize Asian-Americans and I provided reasons for that respect. I suppose that in your PC world I committed a micro-agression by noting my observation that most Asian-Americans drive foreign cars. That's an observation. Observations are a foundation of facts and science adverse as you might be to acknowledging reality when it contradicts your PC narrative. I also wonder about things I notice since I don't have any PC rules to constrain my thoughts. Maybe Asian-Americans tend to buy foreign cars because they also tend to vote for Democrats. It could be as simple as that. I don't know but am still curious. No apologies here. As mentioned, I respect Asian Americans. I don't respect PC perspectives.

I'm not sure why you brought up Vincent Chin. Are you suggesting that Asian-Americans tend not to buy GM and Ford cars because a Chrysler employee killed Vincent Chin 19 years ago?

Regarding your mention of Trump: A 15% import tax on foreign cars may be what Trump talked about but trade policy is supposed to be determined by Congress. Even if Trump worked out a treaty, the Senate would still have to approve it according to the Constitution.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

My previous quote, in full, pertaining to Asian-Americans buying foreign cars: "Why is it, by the way, that almost every Asian-American drives an Asian name tag car? As much as I respect Asian Americans for their hard work, achievements, family stability, and other statistics, they seem as unconcerned about fellow Americans' welfare when buying cars as Democrats. At least Democrats benefit by creating needy classes who vote Democrat, as in Flint, but what do Asian-Americans get out of depressing US workers?"

Notice the word "respect" that I used to generalize Asian-Americans and I provided reasons for that respect. I suppose that in your PC world I committed a micro-agression by noting my observation that most Asian-Americans drive foreign cars. That's an observation. Observations are a foundation of facts and science adverse as you might be to acknowledging reality when it contradicts your PC narrative. I also wonder about things I notice since I don't have any PC rules to constrain my thoughts. Maybe Asian-Americans tend to buy foreign cars because they also tend to vote for Democrats. It could be as simple as that. I don't know but am still curious. No apologies here. As mentioned, I respect Asian Americans. I don't respect PC perspectives.

I'm not sure why you brought up Vincent Chin. Are you suggesting that Asian-Americans tend not to buy GM and Ford cars because a Chrysler employee killed Vincent Chin 19 years ago?

Regarding your mention of Trump: A 15% import tax on foreign cars may be what Trump talked about but trade policy is supposed to be determined by Congress. Even if Trump worked out a treaty, the Senate would still have to approve it according to the Constitution.

Why did I bring up Vincent Chin? Do you really not see the ramifications of saying an entire ethnic group of Americans "doesn't care about American workers".? As for Trump, I was making the obvious point that he and his spawn could stand behind "made in America" by making their own products here. Just as he could support American workers at his properties by utilizing fewer H-2B visas

[O3H]

The USA has awoken and realized its a WORLD economy - not - just the one between Pacific and Atlantic oceans, with Canada to north and Mexico to south.

We are essentially a damn island.
The sooner we realize that, the better.
Stop the idiocy of slogans long extinct.

Read post number 1 again.
Cost of product rules supreme.