Q Line "Constructive Criticism"

**Zacha341** · September-24-17, 08:15 AM

And there were many out along Woodward etc. during the Dlecticity nights along the with the street lights turned out during the events.

All went well but it was a pretty wild time for driving!

Originally Posted by emu steve

I hear the QLINE was crazy last night w. Tigers, Wings, Fox, Fillmore, Opera House, etc. all having a night for the ages in that part of Detroit.

**coracle** · September-24-17, 08:30 AM

It's already a success. It's a beautiful looking machine and adds a bit of class to the appearance of downtown. [[I enjoyed my ride on it. I did it when it was free because I'm "cheap".)

"Everybody" on the route must be thinking of how they can dump their cars to save thousands of dollars per year, and stick it to Insurers, Gas Staions, Parking Garages, not to mention Car Manufacturers. The ridership will slowly increase because it looks right. [[provided it can be run efficiently!).

**Junjie** · September-24-17, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

One day pigs will learn to fly eliminating the need for trucks to drive them to market.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. My only points were:

1. The QLine wasn't funded and built with the goal of maximizing ridership as an end unto itself.

2. Transit ridership on new lines always takes time [[on the order of years) to grow. Transportation habits are connected to housing and job choices that don't shift overnight. Plenty of data available on this through the Google if you need to verify.

**Bham1982** · September-24-17, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Junjie

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. My only points were:

1. The QLine wasn't funded and built with the goal of maximizing ridership as an end unto itself.

2. Transit ridership on new lines always takes time [[on the order of years) to grow. Transportation habits are connected to housing and job choices that don't shift overnight. Plenty of data available on this through the Google if you need to verify.

LOL to both "points". Transit isn't built for ridership, and new transit doesn't draw riders. The spin is extremely heavy today.

The trolley doesn't even draw anywhere near the bus ridership on Woodward [[which was cut to accomodate the trolley), but supposedly it's a game-changer.

Of course, if the trolley actually drew decent ridership, there would be a billion posts claiming evidence for massive success.

**MrMichigan** · September-24-17, 01:38 PM

Drove from Midtown to Downtown around 12:30 today and every southbound station was packed with Lions fans waiting for the Qline. Seemed like they had been there for quite awhile.

**emu steve** · September-24-17, 08:12 PM

Yes, I observed the same. People were packed in the stations near the stadium.

Rather, the biggest lines were leaving the stadium. I have no idea how long it would take for the QLine to pick all of them up.

I was in the areas by WSU and the stadiums and I saw heavy usage even Saturday.

**emu steve** · September-24-17, 08:31 PM

BTW, as predicted by some posters here, the biggest problem will be cars 'stuck' in the QLine lane[[s).

Saw one car which was 'disabled'. Saw a line of say a dozen cars Sunday which were stuck trying to turn from the QLine lane to E. bound Fisher service way. All because of 'gridlock.' And right behind them was a QLine train approaching Montcalm.

**Junjie** · September-24-17, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

LOL to both "points". Transit isn't built for ridership, and new transit doesn't draw riders. The spin is extremely heavy today.

Some transit is built for ridership. That transit comes frequently and may even run in dedicated right of way in order to be competitive on travel time and easy to use for riders, who don't need to memorize a schedule or wait long for a vehicle. It serves high-density urban areas, where lots of potential riders can walk to the stops/stations and then walk to their destination when they get off.

Other transit is built to provide a service. For example, most SMART bus routes are not traveling along high-density urban corridors that would enable high ridership. The point of the service is to provide lifeline coverage to people who can't drive, not to maximize the number of people on each bus.

The private interests that bought and paid for the QLine did so to enhance the value of their holdings and provide a demonstration system, not to put DDOT's 53 bus service out of business. If the goal were to capture the maximum number of riders, they'd need to add more vehicles to reduce headways.

You also just blatantly lied by implying that I said "new transit doesn't draw riders." I said ridership takes time to grow. This is just a basic fact about the world that you can verify by checking ridership data from any agency regarding a new service.

The trolley doesn't even draw anywhere near the bus ridership on Woodward [[which was cut to accomodate the trolley), but supposedly it's a game-changer.

Game-changer for what? You're the only one who's brought that line up. And it's obviously not going to outdraw a bus that comes about twice as frequently and serves people all the way to 8 Mile in addition to the entire area the QLine serves. I mean, duh.

EDIT: And based on your comment I checked the bus schedules for the 53 from Jan 2016 and June 2017. Scheduled bus pullouts for Woodward have been cut from 110 per day to 107 per day. Not exactly crushing service cuts. In fact, the three that were cut were the three that came at odd intervals [[e.g. 4 minutes) rather than the standard 8 and 10 minute intervals used consistently the rest of the day, while the other 107 buses' schedules were entirely unchanged.

Of course, if the trolley actually drew decent ridership, there would be a billion posts claiming evidence for massive success.

Well, if your criteria for success is high ridership, and you posit high ridership, then I guess declaring success would be sort of logical, no? But feel free to ask Gilbert, Penske et al whether their funding was contingent on certainty that it would outdraw the 53 in terms of ridership.

**pocketchange** · September-25-17, 10:57 AM

Rode it for the first time Friday night [[Dlectricity + Parktoberfest) and used the app to buy tickets. Handy.

There was an ambassador checking for tickets on the 1st ride. Nothing on the second. So are you supposed to scan your phone app somehow if no one is there? It didn't seem like the machine at the door could scan, only be used for buying tickets if you didn't have them when you got on?

Also the voice/text announcements weren't working on the first trip. Also was surprised the timing of the next train was only shown on a relatively small display above a map. Maybe I missed a bigger display?

**drjeff** · September-25-17, 02:30 PM

How is ridership being counted since ticket purchases can be for an entire day? Not to mention the fact that I have yet to see anyone checking tickets and I suspect many people are still riding for free. How are all these people being counted?

**professorscott** · September-25-17, 02:38 PM

The QLine was built for a variety of reasons, and how important each reason is varies by the individual involved in the project. From the point of view of the early investors, as far as I could determine, the chief reasons were to improve the vitality of the midtown-downtown corridor in order to facilitate reinvestment in the corridor, to provide a connection from the Amtrak station to downtown, to provide a catalyst for future transit improvements [[people could see something that worked well and was well received) and to provide an additional transit option for people traveling southbound from the midtown neighborhoods [[where the DDOT 53 is often full and the SMART 450/460 do not pick up passengers).

The DDOT mid-city loop bus, route 42, which was launched I think about a month before QLine began free service, has the effect of extending the effective reach of QLine into nearby neighborhoods not otherwise well served by transit at all. That's not the only reason it was put in, but it will be interesting to see the amount of interaction.

In regard to the question of counting, there are a variety of ways this is done. Some transit systems have the driver count the passengers as they board; some have vehicles with on-board passenger counting systems. Nobody with honor-system fare payment can rely on the fare-box to count entries, and that is certainly not unique to QLine. I'm not sure exactly which method QLine is using, or if they're doing it in some way I never heard of. I wasn't involved at that level of detail.

**pocketchange** · September-26-17, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

In regard to the question of counting, there are a variety of ways this is done. Some transit systems have the driver count the passengers as they board; some have vehicles with on-board passenger counting systems. Nobody with honor-system fare payment can rely on the fare-box to count entries, and that is certainly not unique to QLine. I'm not sure exactly which method QLine is using, or if they're doing it in some way I never heard of. I wasn't involved at that level of detail.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...oit/105860766/

The QLine uses an automated passenger counter to calculate its ridership levels. The technology uses body heat on the streetcar among other things to determine riders on board.

**Tig3rzhark** · September-26-17, 06:51 AM

The transfers that QLine issues for the passengers to transfer to DDOT/SMART do not work on the buses at this time.

Don't expect to be able to get on a bus through a QLine Transfer.

Until each transit authority fixes its bugs.

You will have to pay full fare, should u decide to get on a DDOT/SMART bus.

I've tried using the QLine transfers, only for it to be rejected by the machine.

**mtburb** · September-26-17, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

The transfers that QLine issues for the passengers to transfer to DDOT/SMART do not work on the buses at this time.

Don't expect to be able to get on a bus through a QLine Transfer.

Until each transit authority fixes its bugs.

You will have to pay full fare, should u decide to get on a DDOT/SMART bus.

I've tried using the QLine transfers, only for it to be rejected by the machine.

If that's the case then maybe M-1 shouldn't have started issuing these transfers too early in advance.

DetroitNightLights · September-26-17, 01:11 PM

I wonder what kind of impact the QLine is going to have on the People Mover and the 53.

**professorscott** · September-26-17, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

If that's the case then maybe M-1 shouldn't have started issuing these transfers too early in advance.

Why are we relying on the notoriously broken-down DDOT fareboxes for anything whatever? Show your driver that you have a transfer; he can manually input the fact into the farebox by pressing a button, just like he is supposed to press a button to indicate someone has put a bicycle on the bike carrier. Or is there some reason that's not possible?

DetroitNightLights · September-29-17, 04:28 PM

How has QLine been doing during Lil' C. Coliseum events?

**MrMichigan** · October-03-17, 05:02 PM

Signal priority seems to be improving. However, it seems that the lights right after a stop should be timed so they turn green once all riders have boarded and doors are closed.

**drjeff** · October-04-17, 11:17 AM

Yesterday I was driving south on Woodward after work and a police car was blocking the southbound Q line car. That's right, a police car was sitting in the lane, lights on, with the Q line sitting behind it waiting. Come on DPD, can't you move your damn car out of the way? The officers were just talking to some guy on the sidewalk.

**MicrosoftFan** · December-26-17, 04:58 PM

How is the Q Line doing after major events at LCA? I can only imagine the chaos as 10,000 people pour out of LCA and all try to cross Woodward at once.

Can the Q Line accommodate Wings fans as well as the People Mover did?

**Bigdd** · December-26-17, 05:51 PM

Ridership declined 30% right after the free period ended,.. and a month after that,.. it was down 40%.

As of September,.. the ridership was at 3,000 daily rides [[down from 5,000). And of those,... only 40% bothered to pay.

So 1,200 paying "Daily rides" on a system that needs 5,000+ to break even. [[Not that the people behind it were counting on a profit in deciding to build it).

According to QLine spokesman Dan Lijana, that 40% [[of riders actually buying a ticket) is higher than the 32.5 percent national average of similar downtown city rail systems.

**MrMichigan** · December-26-17, 06:15 PM

I've been on both full and empty rides the past couple of months but this past Saturday [[23rd) was the busiest I have ever seen the QLine. Hopefully trending up in ridership.

**SammyS** · December-26-17, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

Ridership declined 30% right after the free period ended,.. and a month after that,.. it was down 40%.

As of September,.. the ridership was at 3,000 daily rides [[down from 5,000). And of those,... only 40% bothered to pay.

So 1,200 paying "Daily rides" on a system that needs 5,000+ to break even. [[Not that anyone had any delusions of a profit in deciding to build it).

According to QLine spokesman Dan Lijana, that 40% is higher than the 32.5 percent national average of similar downtown city rail systems.

Do the forecasts consider seasons?

**Bigdd** · December-26-17, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by SammyS

Do the forecasts consider seasons?

No idea,.. and I haven't even seen any forecasts.

Q-Line doesn't even publish ridership data. You can call them,.. but they don't like giving out info.

Somehow the papers get some data 2-3 times since it was built,.. but August or Sept was the last [[when it was still very warm out).

So yeah,... who knows what it will be in the Winter. Next week they will have the data from the first really cold month [[Dec '17). Perhaps we'll see that in a month?

**Bigdd** · December-26-17, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by SammyS

Do the forecasts consider seasons?

Haven't even seen any foecasts.

Q-Line doesn't seem to publish ridership data. You can call them,.. but they don't like giving out info.

Somehow the papers get some data every 2-3 months or so,.. but Sept was the last [[August data,.. when it was warm).

So yeah,... who knows what it will be in the Winter. Next week they will have the data from the first really cold month [[Dec '17). Perhaps we'll see that in a month?