Project Tim

[hybridy]

"A mystery company has amassed 850 acres in land options to build a $5 billion industrial facility along I-69 and a railroad in Shiawassee County that local officials have been told would be the largest manufacturing plant in the country.

"The document describes a sprawling facility 6,200 feet long and 3,900 feet wide that would top 550 acres in size. [[A square mile is 640 acres.) If built, the plant being proposed in Durand would be 50 percent larger than the 16 million-square-foot Ford River Rouge Complex. It also would be bigger than the tiny 499-acre nation of Monaco along France's Mediterranean coast."

Link

Puff piece? Musk?
http://www.motortrend.com/news/elon-...gigafactories/
https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory

[mikeg19]

He's already building a Gigafactory in Nevada, why not here near the automotive industry?

[EastsideAl]

And here I thought this was going to be about donuts. ::sad::

[Honky Tonk]

He's already building a Gigafactory in Nevada, why not here near the automotive industry?

Why not in China near the automotive industry?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I am hoping it is not an Elon Musk enterprise. He is only in the black with large direct government subsidies*. He also has a short business attention span. I hope it is a plant that builds products that people want to buy. A Musk business would eventually be a regretted and abandoned one, however cool it might seem to some at the ribbon cutting.

*He has "invested" $5B in federal govt money in SpaceX, Tesla & SolarCity, all of which continue to lose money. NY State is paying for his $750M solar panel plant near Buffalo, which Musk will lease back for $1 per year. I doubt project Tim is a Musk project, though, because it would not be this far along without our state and localities have pledged to support it.

[renf]

Is this the land or close to the land that the Grand Trunk tried to assemble some years ago? Didn't the local township block their efforts to build a new hump yard that would have employed several hundred?

[archfan]

Not much out there, but I did see some speculation that a Tesla Gigafactory would be the payoff for allowing non-dealer Tesla sales in Michigan.

I can't get "They call me.....Tim" from Holy Grail out of my head.

[mikeg19]

Why not in China near the automotive industry?

North American automotive industry. That better for you?

[Honky Tonk]

Not much out there, but I did see some speculation that a Tesla Gigafactory would be the payoff for allowing non-dealer Tesla sales in Michigan.

I can't get "They call me.....Tim" from Holy Grail out of my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJZK6rzjns

[Honky Tonk]

North American automotive industry. That better for you?

Well, it does narrow it down a bit.

[aj3647]

He also has a short business attention span. I hope it is a plant that builds products that people want to buy. A Musk business would eventually be a regretted and abandoned one, however cool it might seem to some at the ribbon cutting.

1) Musk founded Tesla Motors in 2003 [[that's 14 years ago) and is still actively involved in it today. But yeah, real short attention span.

2) Tesla automobiles ARE a product that people want. Demand outpaces the supply on Tesla's automobiles and waitlists to buy them fill up years in advance.

3) Of course SpaceX receives money from the federal government, they have federal contracts to deliver supplies to the International Space Stations and Defense contracts to launch satellites into orbit for the military. Until NASA develops its next-gen heavy launch vehicle, SpaceX is effectively filling that role.

[ABetterDetroit]

No eggs to count but what a beautiful rumor.

4-5 Billion? God Damn, what a tremendous pile of cash. Game changer kind of money. Private sector? Wow is a massive understatement. Record breaking size number on one stand alone project.

I find it very hard to believe that Musk would ever consider dropping anywhere near that kind of money here after this state went out of its way to pass legislation to effectively shut him down and make his Tesla business model illegal in Michigan. But that's a whole different thread for a different day.

[DTWflyer]

There is a similar type of project and stories coming out of the Indianapolis area. Lots of land acquisition, rumors, and people who may know more who are held to secrecy under NDAs.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/l...nty/475948001/

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

aj3647, I have nothing against Mr. Musk or Tesla, but I am highly opposed to subsidizing his money guzzling efforts. The ~190,000 vehicles they have put out in the last 9 years have been both directly [[cash from the gov't) and indirectly subsidized [[clients- mostly governments and institutions getting tax benefits for buying electric cars). This is especially annoying because those "electric" cars are actually run on coal and natural gas [[the fuels which produce most electricity in the US). I have no problem with anyone wanting and buying an electric car. I just don't want to chip in for it. Not that there is much individual consumer demand for Teslas. There certainly isn't. But since they don't make many cars, the wait can seem like forever. Kind of like being in a slow restaurant and it takes forever to get your food. At least that food shouldn't be bought in part with other people's money!

As for the short attention span point I had made: that was a reaction to a man & company who seem to have a whole lot more announcements than viable products.

[mikeg19]

Also interesting, Amazon is rumored to be setting up shop with a massive distribution center at the old Visteon Plant on Shelby Twp. Looks like some major players making massive investments locally.

[ABetterDetroit]

There is a similar type of project and stories coming out of the Indianapolis area. Lots of land acquisition, rumors, and people who may know more who are held to secrecy under NDAs.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/l...nty/475948001/

That is interesting.

Hypothetically it would only make sense to have options on a minimum of 2 parcels of land in different states if a large project like this rumor was actually in the works.

The next round after letting the idea go public would be to extract concessions from the state and having at least 2 to compete against each other would be a important strategic advantage for the venture capital.

[Meddle]

DHS/ICE Detention Camps?

[GMan]

From another forum, speculation is it will be a mini steel mill utilizing scrap metal as it's source material.
Local news source:
http://www.abc12.com/content/news/Ho...424235683.html

[Scottathew]

As for the short attention span point I had made: that was a reaction to a man & company who seem to have a whole lot more announcements than viable products.

What has he announced that isn't a real thing?

He indicated that Tesla would start off as an expensive luxury, but he said that has battery technology and manufacturing technology evolved that they would become more affordable. Now you can get a Tesla for $35,000. It's still a little pricey, but he's delivering on his promise of more affordable all-electric vehicles.

When it comes to rocketry, he promised reusable rockets. We have that now. SpaceX is in many way more innovative than NASA and that's going to save the US taxpayers money, as well as private corporations money, when it comes to putting stuff into space. The rockets are being reused now.

He promised the Powerwall, a home battery solution, and we're already in the second generation of those. They're real. They work. You can buy them.

The only announcements that haven't come true yet are the solar-shingle roofs [[although it seems they will be here soon) and going to Mars. Going to Mars will take some time, and it's not like he's off his rocker, his company is already sending stuff into space.

What things do you feel are not viable?

[Meddle]

The only announcements that haven't come true yet are the solar-shingle roofs [[although it seems they will be here soon)

Yes they are: https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

Two styles are available now, two more are coming in '18.

[ABetterDetroit]

From another forum, speculation is it will be a mini steel mill utilizing scrap metal as it's source material.
Local news source:
http://www.abc12.com/content/news/Ho...424235683.html

A mile long metal recycling facility?

If this is what it turns out to be then there is some serious exaggeration in the building size and the billions needed to build it. 5 billion is to much for mini anything.

[Meddle]

^^ Takes a lot of scrap to work something like that. Think of the area being use for piles rather than a building.

[GMan]

^^ Takes a lot of scrap to work something like that. Think of the area being use for piles rather than a building.

Other posters on that forum [[involves railroads) mentioned that other existing facilities of that nature involve independent steel companies setting up their businesses onsite to deliver finished specialty product to the customer.
Rail brings in the raw material and the mini mill makes the raw untreated roll. The other onsite companies finish it to meet customer needs.

[aj3647]

aj3647, I have nothing against Mr. Musk or Tesla, but I am highly opposed to subsidizing his money guzzling efforts. The ~190,000 vehicles they have put out in the last 9 years have been both directly [[cash from the gov't) and indirectly subsidized [[clients- mostly governments and institutions getting tax benefits for buying electric cars). This is especially annoying because those "electric" cars are actually run on coal and natural gas [[the fuels which produce most electricity in the US). I have no problem with anyone wanting and buying an electric car. I just don't want to chip in for it. Not that there is much individual consumer demand for Teslas. There certainly isn't. But since they don't make many cars, the wait can seem like forever. Kind of like being in a slow restaurant and it takes forever to get your food. At least that food shouldn't be bought in part with other people's money!

As for the short attention span point I had made: that was a reaction to a man & company who seem to have a whole lot more announcements than viable products.

The subsidies for electric vehicles and solar panels were not unique or exclusive to Elon Musk. Tesla Motors and Solar City were taking advantage of the same tax incentives that were available to any company that was producing electric cars or solar panels.

Additionally, the $5 billion figure you cite [[and yes, I read the same LA Times article you did) is a bit misleading, as it includes both state and federal dollars and includes tax breaks given by states to lure Tesla to build factories in their states [[and thus create jobs). Nevada, for example. This is hardly something to single out Tesla Motors or Elon Musk for, since this is common practice for just about every state and every industry.

How many sweetheart tax deals has the City of Detroit or the State of Michigan cut to how many hundreds of businesses and corporations to lure jobs here? Look at the tax breaks Amazon got to build that distribution center in Livonia. What about the Marathon Oil Refinery in Southwest Detroit? Look up how much they got in tax incentives for their expansion in exchange for agreeing to hire Detroit residents. Or the tax breaks Ann Arbor gave to lure a Google office. This type of thing is ubiquitous, so it seems almost unfair for you to single out Musk as if he's some kind of bad actor for doing what literally every other major corporation and manufacturer in America does on a daily basis [[seek tax breaks from the government in exchange for job creation and local investment). Those Amazon jobs in Livonia, those Google jobs in Ann Arbor, those Marathon Oil jobs in Detroit...all subsidized with tax dollars. And that's just three examples out of hundreds, just here in Michigan.

If we're going to call out Elon Musk for taking tax incentives to spur his business growth, let's call out everyone.

[ABetterDetroit]

It is a possibility. This is what popped in my mind first. But Calvert does have port facilities.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.co..._calvert_s.amp