Casino Impact on Detroit

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Although I am very firm in my beliefs, I do have the ability to admit that I'm wrong, from time to time. I was a huge opponent of casino gambling coming to Detroit. In the years since, though, I think they have been a strong net positive to the city & state.

According to this article in Crain's http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ate-city-since, the city and state have reaped a huge windfall in revenue from them. That does not count the amount of money paid in local property taxes or the money from staff income taxes. And it certainly doesn't take into account that the three casinos ended up being a real stabilizing force in downtown [[one smack downtown, and 2 sort of on the perimeter).

As Detroit continued to disintegrate into the 2000s, the only major new employers in town were the three casinos and associated enterprises. And while I had firm opinions about the location of the casinos, in retrospect I think the locations work rather well, and each establishment has it's own set of features, price points, etc. Had the Archer plan of a riverfront 3-casino complex panned out [[and I favored back in the day), downtown would be a lot worse off. Had the casinos been forced [[as originally planned) to contain 800 rooms each, it would not have been economically sustainable for them in the lean years, and would have inhibited our recent explosion in hotel growth.

I had feared that the casinos would bring in a lot more crime and lead to a lot more problem gambling. But I don't think crime has exploded downtown. Indeed, I think the casinos work dilligently on security at both their own sites and also the areas around them. And problem gambling was always there for some of the population, and would be without casinos.

I am retroactively glad Detroit & Michigan legalized casinos. And as we always debate about this or that development, city plans, bridge plans, sports plans, theater plans, hotel plans, residential plans, etc, we would do well to remember that sometimes things happen seemingly not by design at all, and work out for the best. So when something is built differently than we would hope or plan, it can still turn out to be its own good thing. The casinos were not what were originally planned for Detroit or what I would have hoped for in Detroit, but as it turns out they were actually what worked in Detroit.

PS I am not a gambler, but have enjoyed a few nights' sleep and a few meals at the three casinos. Enjoyed them all [[and enjoyed unexpectedly getting laid at the MGM very Grand a few years ago). I guess we all have our own vices...

[313WX]

I agree with most of your thoughts.

[[no comment on that last paragraph there...)

[Jimaz]

What bothers me most about casinos in Detroit is that they're essentially a predatory business. I don't think Detroiters are helped by being preyed upon. I'd much rather see businesses that produce real value instead.

A guy sitting next to me asked me to sell him a $5 chip. Apparently dealers won't sell individual chips? I relented but if he was down to his last $5 he shouldn't have been there.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Jimaz, I understand your point. It was part of my long-time opposition. But I think that problem gamblers would find other outlets for their destructive behavior. Casinos and other gambling would still be ubiquitous even if the Detroit casinos went away. There is online gambling, local charity bingo, lotteries of all kinds, a dozen other casinos in Michigan [[and all the surrounding states) and, of course, a big casino across the river.

For most people visiting a casino, it is part of their recreation/entertainment money. Would I rather see a play or a game & then go out to dinner? Yes. But if someone else would rather blow that same money playing blackjack for awhile, well, that's their business.

[Ray1936]

Hey, I live in Las Vegas, which is in Nevada, which is a state that has no state or local income tax, and real estate taxes are dirt cheap compared to Michigan. Yeah, I hit the joints from time to time for the entertainment factor, and if I blow forty bucks or so, chances are I've had a lot of fun in blowing it. And, what the heck, once in a while dame fortune does smile.

That said, the casinos in Detroit, IMHO, are a positive industry. And parking is free, unlike the megaresorts on the strip in Vegas.

No, I don't play on the strip. I hit the neighborhood 'locals' joints; better payoff tables and free parking. The strip is for Californians, who are goofy to start with.

[Ray1936]

Reading my post above, I should have said I live in Henderson, NV, the second largest city in Nevada. We consider Las Vegas one of our 'burbs.

[Jimaz]

Jimaz, I understand your point.... But I think that problem gamblers would find other outlets for their destructive behavior....

They most certainly would.

To be fair, at the time the casinos were constructed, there was an air of desperation. The economy had been, was, and seemed likely to continue to be depressed. It seemed there was no alternative but to allow casino construction.

Today, with 20/20 hindsight, it seems the resources expended on creating casinos could have instead been invested in businesses that produce real added value, like <gasp> manufacturing, which remarkably seems to be making a major comeback lately.

‘Full employment' in 33 of 83 counties

Who could have known?

I do recall reading that the social acceptance of gambling rises and falls throughout history. Maybe now that casino patrons have jobs, casinos will slide into obscurity again.

Time will tell.

[softailrider]

Jimaz, I understand your point. It was part of my long-time opposition. But I think that problem gamblers would find other outlets for their destructive behavior. Casinos and other gambling would still be ubiquitous even if the Detroit casinos went away. There is online gambling, local charity bingo, lotteries of all kinds, a dozen other casinos in Michigan [[and all the surrounding states) and, of course, a big casino across the river.

For most people visiting a casino, it is part of their recreation/entertainment money. Would I rather see a play or a game & then go out to dinner? Yes. But if someone else would rather blow that same money playing blackjack for awhile, well, that's their business.

As our fearless leader has stated on occasion " the only way to make money in a casino is to own one"
I probably go to the Detroit casinos 3 or 4 times a year. When I'm up north I'll play there too. I would say I lose most, but certainly not all of the time. It does feel good to walk out of there with some of their money.

[renf]

The city income tax in Detroit was reduced from 3 percent to 2.6 percent. Wasn't that, more or less, the direct result of tax revenues from the casinos?

[ndavies]

The city income tax in Detroit was reduced from 3 percent to 2.6 percent. Wasn't that, more or less, the direct result of tax revenues from the casinos?

No, the tax reduction was part of a deal negotiated with the state. It was only partially implemented. The tax rate was supposed to drop to %2 as part of the deal. I can't remember what the state was giving the city to have it do this. [[My Fuzzy memory believes it had to do with revenue sharing.)

The deal fell apart before the bankruptcy.

[EGrant]

I always get the sense that many people gambling in Detroit casinos really don't have anything to be actually gambling. That's purely an anecdote, but I just get a feeling of despair in those buildings.

[mwilbert]

I think they are a mixed blessing. I would have been much happier if they had been sited together; they aren't great neighbors, and I think it is hard to deny that the Greektown casino pretty much destroyed what was left of Greektown.

They certainly do provide a good-sized revenue stream for the city, and the city needs the money.

[313WX]

No, the tax reduction was part of a deal negotiated with the state. It was only partially implemented. The tax rate was supposed to drop to %2 as part of the deal. I can't remember what the state was giving the city to have it do this. [[My Fuzzy memory believes it had to do with revenue sharing.)

The deal fell apart before the bankruptcy.

You are correct as far as the bolded.

And the deal fell apart because the state refused to hold up its end of the bargain, not because of the bankruptcy. While the city still had to gradually reduce its income tax rate, the state refused to give the city the revenue sharing money it was owed [[to-date, the amount owed is $225 million).

[SammyS]

Here I go again with my Melbourne stories🙄

Gambling was also legalized in Victoria around the early 90's. Before then, gamblers had to travel >5 hours to the border of NSW to get their chance of losing their pay.

A temporary casino was constructed in the old Victoria Police HQ on the banks of the Yarra River near downtown and opposite to where the proposed permanent casino was to be erected [[Crown Casino). The mandate was that the temporary casino would pay for the new one in about 6 years. 6 months later, PAID IN FULL!

Was a good time to shop at the local pawn brokers, let me tell ya that. 😎

[Johnnny5]

IMO Detroit allowing the casinos was at best a horribly squandered opportunity, and at worst a deal with the Devil. The jobs they promised have been dwindling due to advances in technology and that will only get worse. The neighborhood around Motor City is still empty. MGM is a fortress disconnected from everything except the freeways and "Greektown" has taken its toll on the actual Greektown.


There should have been far greater demands placed on the casinos before they were allowed in the city. Limits on what services they could offer so that surrounding business such as restaurants, bars and hotels could have seen more benefits. With the exception of Greektown we are instead left with closed off buildings where most visitors just see two freeway ramps [[One on their way in, and the other on the way out).