Request for insights on tourism in abandoned Detroit - French PhD student

[Aude]

Hello everyone,

I'm Aude, a French PhD student in Geography [[University of Paris 1) currently beginning a dissertation on abandoned places and urban ruins as tourist attractions in Detroit and Berlin, Germany. While researching on the internet, I came across DetroitYes forums, on which I found very interesting discussions on these issues, so I decided to post here to ask for your help in this research project.

Listening to how Detroiters feel and to what they have to say about it is very important to me as part of this research, as I think tourism can only be fully understood by taking into account the views, feelings and interests of the locals and not only those of tourists and tour organizers.

This is why I would like to kindly ask everyone of you who'd accept to take a few minutes of his/her time to share his/her views on the topic. I'm really interested in everything you could tell me about it - no matter if you're condemning or praising tourism in abandoned places, if you're a native Detroiter, a new one, a tourist interested in ruins, a tour organizer or whatever : every insight would be valuable to me !

It would also really help a lot if you could tell me a bit about yourself and especially what your connection to Detroit is, so that I kind of know where the opinions on this tourism in abandoned places are expressed from, but I might already have asked too much.

I'm in Detroit until July 12th and would also love to meet for a talk on these issues if some of you think they have way to much things to say about it

Thank you so much for your help, have a great day !

Best,
Aude

[night-timer]

Detroit can be a strangely fascinating place. You can stay safe if you know your areas and don't do anything foolish.

Downtown is built up and relatively busy. Anywhere a mile or more from Downtown, in any direction, begins to look barren. Learn the major roadways [[Woodward, Grand River, Michigan, Gratiot, Jefferson) to help you get your bearings.

A handful of the most notable abandoned buildings [[MCS, Book Tower, Packard Plant) will be saved, Most of the rest will go if they cannot be re-purposed by a cashed-up Detroit entrepreneur like Matty Maroun or Dan Gilbert.

I have a friend living in Berlin [[he married a German girl he met while backpacking through Europe) and he says Berlin is overly full of American hipsters obsessed by Berlin. It was very cheap in the 'Old East' [[the former East Berlin) compared to West Berlin - making it attractive to younger folk - but that has all changed since the Old East became noted for its hip lifestyle.

[Aude]

Hi !

Thank you very much for your advice, I'll try to stay safe by discovering as much as I can of Detroit Do you know if there is any possibility to visit the Book Tower ?

I realize that I have not expressed my idea clearly in my first post : I'd love to hear of the forumers' opinions on ruin tourism in Detroit [[what you think of it, what the effects - positive and negative - for the city are or could be, what you know about it happening in Detroit, if you ever had an personal experience of it - like bumping into tourists photographing the abandoned house of your former neighbours or whatever, if you know about people with whom it could interesting to talk about that, etc. etc.) My first post actually sounded like "I want to visit ruins in Detroit, how should I do that ?", which it is not

Thanks in advance for your help !

[Richard]

I think on the tourism aspect Detroit these days has way more to offer in their non ruins architecture. They have a diversity in architecture that is hard to find elsewhere in the U.S.

But that would be coming from a non resident and what would drive me to visit as a tourist.

I think as a whole the whole abandoned/ruin porn aspect has gone back underground in this country.Sometimes to much popularity can be destructive.

[BMoo]

I live in Detroit and grew up in the metro area. I think you may have missed the ball on this story as the "abandoned tourism" story is very old news here. Books and blogs have come and gone and I wouldn't say that it has been much of a relevant topic in the last three years. And even then, most of the articles written by outsiders at that time only focused on the same two buildings over and over again. Today, those two buildings are no longer in the state of abandonment that they once were - the Michigan Central Depot now has new windows and a working elevator [[although the windows are non-historic and the building is still heavily neglected by its owner) and the Packard Plant is breaking ground for its redevelopment very soon with crews already doing some work.

[Pat001]

This city is not a theme park attraction.

In Paris, authorities are building a wall made of bulletproof glass around the Eiffel Tower to protect tourists from terrorist attack. There are entire sections of Paris that have become all-male "no go" zones where women can't go without risking assault or worse.

Why don’t you write a dissertation on why that is happening?

[Lowell]

I agree with some of the comments above about the tourist aspect of Detroit's ruins being a dated subject.

This is particularly true of Downtown Detroit. Looking back to when I launched the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit tour as compared to today, it is like day and night. Every major abandoned and falling-into-ruin site in downtown Detroit has been restored or is being restored -- Cadillac Hotel, Fort Shelby Hotel, Whitney Building, Broderick Tower, GAR Building, Metropolitan Building, United Artists Building, Wurlitzer Building, Book Tower, Stott Building, and many lesser sites have been recovered, are being restored or have credible restoration plans in place. Next up the Eddystone and American Hotels.

While the final results are still in question, two of the "marquee" sites of any old days Detroit ruins tour, the Michigan Central Depot and the Packard Plant, have undergone partial recovery and both are now guarded and surveilled.

In many ways the Detroit story now is far more about recovery than ruin.

[night-timer]

Lowell and others, agreed, the Detroit story is more about a gradual comeback than the end of the Industrial Age, which has occurred all throughout the West, not just Detroit or the Midwest.

More than anything, Detroit has an underlying feeling of transformation and [[slow) renewal as it reinvents itself. Obviously it was a city overly dependent on the manufacturing of cars, without much of a Plan B apart from a well-respected music industry.

The OP [[someone called Aude) may want to check out a Detroit 'ruin porn' book called - you guessed it - The Ruins of Detroit. It was photographed by two photographers from France during their annual visits to Detroit between 2005 and 2010: http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit

I'd be keen to hear other local Detroiters' opinions on that pictorial book, too.

While I'm at it, perhaps the OP could be given local Detroiters' opinions on non-local investors buying neglected Detroit houses and foreclosures on the cheap. They don't even take the 'ruin porn' tour - they purchase from afar, presumably to wait for the eventual rebound.

[drjeff]

While the big buildings downtown are no longer ruins, much of the rest of the city sure is. The place to go is the decimated neighborhoods that used to be dense and thriving and now are urban jungle.

[Oddz313]

Ya I think you are a little late to that party, you can look at the former AM HQ and the surrounding area which has really gone downhill since 09 when it was deserted by Chrysler. Neighborhood wise the empty neighborhood Robinwood,Hollywood,brentwood by 7 mile and John R always shows complete ruins for you. They also have Dr.Bob and his water hippies on Goldengate, lol. You can PM me if you need guidance

[Shai_Hulud]

While the big buildings downtown are no longer ruins, much of the rest of the city sure is. The place to go is the decimated neighborhoods that used to be dense and thriving and now are urban jungle.

That's true, but how fulfilling that would be depends on the persons interests.

IMO, what's interesting about abandonment in the neighborhoods is the scale, and how quickly if can change from block to block.

But the neighborhoods with the best housing are on the rebound. Visually, not much difference between Brightmoor and Osborne, or the empty commercial corridors on Puritan or Seven Mile.

[erikd]

Hi !

Thank you very much for your advice, I'll try to stay safe by discovering as much as I can of Detroit Do you know if there is any possibility to visit the Book Tower ?

I realize that I have not expressed my idea clearly in my first post : I'd love to hear of the forumers' opinions on ruin tourism in Detroit [[what you think of it, what the effects - positive and negative - for the city are or could be, what you know about it happening in Detroit, if you ever had an personal experience of it - like bumping into tourists photographing the abandoned house of your former neighbours or whatever, if you know about people with whom it could interesting to talk about that, etc. etc.) My first post actually sounded like "I want to visit ruins in Detroit, how should I do that ?", which it is not

Thanks in advance for your help !

There is nothing positive that has come from ruin porn and/or ruin tourism in Detroit.

Ruin tourism has never been any kind of popular draw or industry in Detroit. There are a few people here and there who will make a trip to Detroit just to see abandoned buildings, but it is relatively rare. We aren't filling up hotel rooms and tour busses with people who are coming just to see the ruins of Detroit. The vast majority of people who are exploring or taking pictures of vacant buildings in Detroit are either locals from the region, or visitors who are here for a different reason, and want to take a picture of an abandoned building while they are in town. It is not something that draws tourists to Detroit.

The biggest impact of ruin porn and ruin tourism in Detroit is the reinforcement of negative stereotypes that it helps to foster and perpetuate. Contrary to popular belief, Detroit is still a functioning large city, with many hundreds of thousands of residents in the city proper. The metro Detroit region [[city+suburbs) is home to well over 4 million residents.

The fetishizing of ruins in Detroit is frequently exploitative, largely bereft of any context that could make it valuable or informative, and instead focuses on maximizing a shock effect.

[kathy2trips]

I for one am very offended by Aude's inquiry, and I haven't lived in Detroit for years. How many tourists visited the ruins of Berlin after WWII, or those of Aude's own country for that matter? You want scale and scope of ruins? Mosul has that, plus it's fresh, too. Pardon my sarcasm, but I've just about had my fill of looky-loos who want to gawk at, write papers and books on, and pass judgment about my schools, my neighborhoods, my churches and my earlier life. I find Aude's project insensitive and exploitive, and dismissive of the positive aspects of Detroit. It perpetrates a negative image and a myth that it is all that way. I'm no cultural masochist; expect no help from me.

[Dumpling]

I am not at all crazy about after-the-fact ruins downtown or in the
neighborhoods but if Ms. Aude would like to live in or near the house
of the drive by shooting that killed at least one last month sometime
around Flag Day I for one would be happy to welcome a new neighbor.

There was a moving van down there earlier today - don't know if
it was inbound or outbound. The house in which three were shot
and killed a year ago was first spray painted with graffiti and then
burned and has not yet been demolished.

Please to not have any substance abuse problem, we wouldn't
be able to take care of you properly if you do; also please have the
ability to pay for the rent or for the house. Unfortunately a little bit
of insensitivity might be helpful to have for this different project.

[archfan]

...
I realize that I have not expressed my idea clearly in my first post : I'd love to hear of the forumers' opinions on ruin tourism in Detroit [[what you think of it, what the effects - positive and negative - for the city are or could be, what you know about it happening in Detroit, if you ever had an personal experience of it - like bumping into tourists photographing the abandoned house of your former neighbours or whatever, if you know about people with whom it could interesting to talk about that, etc. etc.) My first post actually sounded like "I want to visit ruins in Detroit, how should I do that ?", which it is not

Thanks in advance for your help !

I'm not sure everyone has read Aude's second post, in which explains Aude is documenting attitudes toward ruin tourism, not advocating or doing ruin tourism.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Glad you pointed that distinction out Archfan. Indeed she's getting a great deal of material just from the posts to the thread. Many Detoiter's don't care for the ruin porn exploitation!