4,347 Occupied Detroit Properties headed to Tax Auction

[Lowell]

A dispersed, slow-motion human disaster is occurring throughout Detroit. It is not some tidal wave sending masses fleeing from their destroyed homes. Instead it is one-by-one, quietly, here, there, anywhere, thousands of people are being forced out of their homes. With them, there is likely more Detroit population decline.

A now functioning tax foreclosure system is efficiently foreclosing and auctioning properties with the proceeds balancing the Wayne County budget.

Here are the numbers thanks to Loveland with a snippet of Detroit demonstrating the dispersal. If it happened all in a few blocks there would be mass protests. Instead, everyone is alone with little idea of the magnitude of the event of which they are just a tiny isolated dot. It's beyond divide and conquer; it is isolate and conquer.

8,340 Detroit properties that have been fully tax foreclosed by the Wayne County Treasurer in 2017 and are headed to the September 2017 tax foreclosure auction. 4,347 of these properties were marked as occupied during the County's tax foreclosure notification process.

[313WX]

I still think the census estimates are too generous and don't account for the flight that occurred during the 2011-2014 period.

No way does the city still have 675,000 people.

[Zacha341]

What a joyful site! Now you can know your neighbors tax owing status. No wonder that lawn's not mowed......

[Chicago48]

What joyful site! Now you can know your neighbors tax owing status. No wonder the lawn is not mowed......

This is a keeper.
I saw a lot of vacant land and devastation, esp on the east side. I don't see how the city gets back on its feet, short-term. Maybe 20 years out, but it needs residents who are paying property taxes.

[Honky Tonk]

This is a keeper.
I saw a lot of vacant land and devastation, esp on the east side. I don't see how the city gets back on its feet, short-term. Maybe 20 years out, but it needs residents who are paying property taxes.

Correcto-mundo. The developers aren't paying tax because, well, they're developers, they're making Detroit great again! They deserve all the financial breaks they get. The poor aren't paying tax because, well, they're poor, and besides, tax is just a way for "the man" to keep them down and shouldn't everything be free anyway? The hipsters aren't paying tax because, well, like, they're already spending, like, money on coffee and clothes and stuff, and, like, isn't that stuff taxed alreadyeeee? Besides, they're addresses are all back in the 'burbs, where Mom and Dad live, in case things get too rough in Detroit, and they have to make a break for it. So who does that leave? The schmucks, [[present company included) that actually bought into this scheme, invested heavily into their property, and are less apt to abandon it and just go. [[though the idea has crossed their minds) They just pay and pay.

[Shai_Hulud]

Not to be glib, but isn't that number lower than in previous years. Weren't we up around 6,000 a few years ago?

[Richard]

40% renters

Number is based on the census bureau listing of the adverage home family size of 2.6 residents.

So they are at best estimating,the total figure represents ownership of total properties.

If it is a city owned property and tax delinquent and vacant should it be listed under the displacement of residents? Kinda makes for funny numbers.

Unless I am missing something it seems kinda hard to get a clear picture,it would have to be broken down more into actual home owners,renters and how many are living in the house,how many are in bank foreclosure and so the tenants are not paying the tax and the bank will clear the tax after the foreclosure.How many are in confusion of thinking the mortgage company is paying the tax as included in the mortgage payment and not.

If it in the progress of a bank foreclosure and taxes not being paid it becomes kinda irrelevant in the frame of displaced residents because they were going to be displaced anyways,no matter what the city collected or not.

[313WX]

Correcto-mundo. The developers aren't paying tax because, well, they're developers, they're making Detroit great again! They deserve all the financial breaks they get. The poor aren't paying tax because, well, they're poor, and besides, tax is just a way for "the man" to keep them down and shouldn't everything be free anyway? The hipsters aren't paying tax because, well, like, they're already spending, like, money on coffee and clothes and stuff, and, like, isn't that stuff taxed alreadyeeee? Besides, they're addresses are all back in the 'burbs, where Mom and Dad live, in case things get too rough in Detroit, and they have to make a break for it. So who does that leave? The schmucks, [[present company included) that actually bought into this scheme, invested heavily into their property, and are less apt to abandon it and just go. [[though the idea has crossed their minds) They just pay and pay.

But...but...downtown's getting a theatre!

[Zacha341]

Yes, without a strong tax base the rougher neighborhoods of Detroit will remain so. I found that site most useful to find all of the business and commercial locations and ALSO owing taxes!!!

This is a keeper.
I saw a lot of vacant land and devastation, esp on the east side. I don't see how the city gets back on its feet, short-term. Maybe 20 years out, but it needs residents who are paying property taxes.

[313WX]

A list from USA Today [[linked below) last month shows *SIX* Detroit neighborhoods amongst the top 15 with underwater mortgages.

No other city listed has more than one neighborhood on that list...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ges/348865001/

[Zacha341]

^^^ That's pretty dismal. This number and areas of concentration [[depending on zip codes) is a very heavy weight, withstanding progress in downtown and other areas.

[ABetterDetroit]

A dispersed, slow-motion human disaster is occurring throughout Detroit. It is not some tidal wave sending masses fleeing from their destroyed homes. Instead it is one-by-one, quietly, here, there, anywhere, thousands of people are being forced out of their homes.

Thanks Lowell for the well written description of the problem. A never ending human disaster.

I never understand how and why this problem continues to roll on in Detroit with both the right and the left equally not caring about it.

When it starts costing the state Billions upon Billions then the Right gets really angry about the money but not the cause.

The Left gets its panties in a bunch when great architecture rots into the ground or when it's too hard to catch a bus to were the taxes are less than half what they are in Detroit but to hell with doing anything about the actual ongoing human tragedy.

Detroit has nothing but space for everything imaginable from housing to any kind of production or service with infrastructure in place but it must sit idle because spreading the tax base into vehicles that actually are proven to work in the 21st century is out of the question.

Who on this list provided in the link is the city where things are going well? It's not even hard to figure out that it doesn't work anymore just look around Detroit and the other ones that are still stuck doing the same shit tho to be fair, virtually nobody does it as bad as Detroit.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shreyaa.../#2e125acad78d

[archfan]

I never understand how and why this problem continues to roll on in Detroit with both the right and the left equally not caring about it.

What needs to be done? How would you change things?

[313WX]

The "left" nor the "right" are under no obligation to save Detroit from itself.

Detroit's problems [[or Michigan's problems for that matter) were inflicted upon itself entirely, and they alone should be responsible to fix it.

[Meddle]

If everybody would just pay their *fair* share and stop looking for deductions and exemptions and other excuses, everybody's *fair* share would be less and there would be enough to do what needs to be done.

People keep looking for ways not to pay their way, then complaining that nothing is being done.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Federal and state income tax deductions and exemptions [[and ones personal choice as to their withholdings therein etc) are not exactly related to NOT PAYING ones property taxes last I checked.

[Lowell]

The "left" nor the "right" are under no obligation to save Detroit from itself.

Detroit's problems [[or Michigan's problems for that matter) were inflicted upon itself entirely, and they alone should be responsible to fix it.

I get that argument, but the victims, particularly the renters, of these foreclosure actions are not some monolithic 'Detroit'. They are just individual little guys who for the most part are struggling trying to get by. They didn't create the problem any more than you or I did. And they have absolutely no power to fix it.

[313WX]

I get that argument, but the victims, particularly the renters, of these foreclosure actions are not some monolithic 'Detroit'. They are just individual little guys who for the most part are struggling trying to get by. They didn't create the problem any more than you or I did. And they have absolutely no power to fix it.

I get what you're saying as well. But unfortunately, that's life. There won't always be a fairy god mother who comes to the rescue to help you out of a bad situation and you have to make the best with the hand you're dealt.

If the renters want to hold anyone responsible for the mess they're in, it would only be the landlords who misused their money [[that's what the courts are for) and themselves for not doing better research before signing on the dotted line.

[Richard]

On the flip side of the coin it is showing the end of the mortgage crisis,across the country the banks have been holding off of foreclosure in neighborhoods where the resale values would be considered a loss.

By me and after the foreclosure process the banks have interviewed the neighbors about how the tenants were as a neighbor,if they were good then the banks have allowed them to stay in the house for up to another year at no cost verses a vacant property left to to elements and scrapping.

Unfortantly the hardest hit funds that were meant to deal with all of this were not spent in the way that they were allocated for by cities across the country.

It is toughest on the renters but they will rent elsewhere in the city or relocate I would guess it would be on the city to help on that with maybe a list of options connecting landlords and tenants,other then that I would guess that it is no different then when tenants move about anyways.

It is most likely still going to take another couple of years to play out so the absorption rate on the bank side should be okay.

Not sure how the city foreclosure aspect verses renters but based on the past auctions where people have bought property and inherited the tenants,the impact may not be so dramatic.

[archfan]

If the renters want to hold anyone responsible for the mess they're in, it would only be the landlords who misused their money [[that's what the courts are for) and themselves for not doing better research before signing on the dotted line.

I rented for 14 years before buying a house. Are you telling me I was negligent by not checking into the tax status of my landlord? I guess I would have deserved it if I got evicted because my landlord was delinquent.

[313WX]

I rented for 14 years before buying a house. Are you telling me I was negligent by not checking into the tax status of my landlord? I guess I would have deserved it if I got evicted because my landlord was delinquent.

In the age of the internet and social media, it's not hard at all to find out if a landlord is up to scuff. That said, it's just like buying a car or finding a job. You can do all of the right things and still get screwed.

Life's not fair. It's unfortunate if someone is evicted from their home because of a negligent landlord, but to expect the government to come to people's rescue every time it happens is also unrealistic.

[ABetterDetroit]

What needs to be done? How would you change things?

Flatten property taxes state wide to create a level playing field on both sides of the roads throughout the state. No more "winners and losers" with wildly different property tax rates within the state. Only charge double for non state residents 2nd homes, everything else flat like 1.25% flat, renters and owners, businesses etc...

Critical to replace the revenue with per capita revenue sharing.

Some examples to replace the revenue.

Tax weed. Take a hard look at what Colorado is doing and copy the most successful parts. It will never be 1955 again and all that is getting accomplished now is criminals are making all the money and this generation is starting to think that they are entitled to never pay a tax on pot because they don't currently. The last states to implement this tax will do nothing but miss out on the most revenue. Why does Michigan always have to live in the past, particularly financially?

Increase the tax on beer. Nothing but wiggle room here and good money left on the table that isn't going to ruin entire cities with an increase.

Charge sales tax on entertainment events. At this point not charging sales tax on pro sports is a joke. We built the stadiums and they use actuaries to milk every last penny with dozens of different price level ticket tiers and we don't charge the lousy 6% WTF? It's beyond stupid when you walk in and out of these venues and see what the cost is for security in law enforcement for these events alone. Long gone is when you needed an extra dozen cops just to direct traffic. Billionaire owners will whine like stuck pigs but they will be okay, don't worry about them so much. They will charge the maximum of what the market will bear with or without the 6% charge.

Raise the coat tax. This is a no brainer. Eliminating this fee illustrates the stupidity in Lansing these days. $115 bucks for 5 years and they want to get rid of it? Raising this 'fee' or 'tax' or whatever you call it to carry your concealed weapon will not cost jobs period. This is exactly the kind of things you look for to raise revenue. $150 a year is reasonable. Ear mark it straight for justice and corrections to enforce the existing gun laws. They are always complaining that isn't getting done so here's the chance to help.

Raise the tax on gasoline and diesel per gallon. Cheap fuel at 1980s prices feels good but we need the money so we can climb out of this jobs and real estate mess. We did years ago and now need to worse than ever. We are not just moving jobs around the state anymore now they are leaving the state. Trust, nobody gives a crap what the fuel tax is where they take a vacation. Even the less fortunate have the ability to drive higher gas mileage used vehicles.

Most important is graduate the income tax. It has proven to be the greatest tax generator in human history. Uncle Sam raises money like nobody else on earth with no close second. Tax the earned income. That is where the damn money is, not in some falling down disrepair house or factory. Those are the opportunities for people to earn income, live, invest in communities.

In many states the primary home is a significant economic engine with upgrades, additions and remodeling and new construction. This state has lagged behind since the sixties watching this industry literally leave this state because the housing market has been piss poor and leading the nation as one of the worst for decades. That failure has cost us jobs and capital for far too long.

As I always state, allow a regional sales tax increase for public transportation. It's not brain surgery, just look around at what works elsewhere.

[archfan]

I like a number of your ideas. Unfortunately, they would be perceived as tax increases, and most of Michigan's legislators would rather cut off their right arm than raise a tax.

[renf]

There are many good ideas in the post from ABetterDetroit. We do not want to raise taxes for the sake of higher taxes but the state needs to spend more on infrastructure and education. The change in the funding of public schools was an important one. Why not have the same property tax rates in every municipality and then distribute the revenue on the basis of population size.
Cutting the sales tax rate but imposing it on entertainment and services is a very reasonable idea.
The tax on property sales - currently 0.75% could be increased a bit.
Michigan has been just about stagnant with regard to number of jobs and population since the 1970s. The state government has a key role to play in returning this state to sustained economic growth.