Historic Apartments at Cass and Henry to be Demolished by Olympia/Ilitch

[Richard]

I wonder about the 'Tax capture' vs Mass transit [[or something else).

In the thread of QLine, Professor Scott verified that NO general fund dollars are going to build, operate, etc. the QLine. Ms. Smith, first grade teacher, isn't buying her students books using her money as school dollars were diverted to the QLine.

The NEXT QUESTION:

Are general fund monies going to support building of LCA? Fair question.

Let's assume the arena cost DDA 600M over 30 years, principal and interest, much like a 30-year mortgage on a house.

Where is the 20M annual payment going to come from?

1). There could be as many as 3M annual ticketed patrons to LCA [[150 dates x 20K per event). If there is a 'ticket surcharge' [[think this is common). The Wings/Pistons could combine for more than 1.5M patrons annually. 90 - 100 events x say 17,500 = say 1.6M. Take 2.5 - 3M patrons and multiple by say $3 per tix and we are easily talking roughly 8 - 9M dollars annually.

2). I believe I read the city expects to collect over 4M annually in non-resident income taxes for events which are now at LCA instead of the Palace. Steph Curry will have to pay non-resident inc tax for the game[[s) he plays at LCA. Visiting NHL players had to pay in the past and future. Nothing changed there.

3). And there is the TIF bit where business in the development area have agreed to pay extra taxes. Those monies will be paid by GM, Gilbert, Ilitches, and any other property owners with the DDA district.

The idea is that these multiple revenue streams pay off the bonds.

Quite frankly these are questions for the Mayor's office.

They would know what the real story is and what is Internet poppycock.

They can answer this question: Are revenue sources from ticket surcharges, non-resident performer taxes for LCA events, TIF revenues, other incomes directly related to events at LCA [[rental payments paid by the Olympia enterprise), etc. sufficient to pay off the annual debt service on the bonds?

It is a tax capture and the same deal Mr Gilbert is getting albeit his was 50% of and I am not sure of what the percentage is for the stadiums but tax capture does not effect the school budget it effects the city's general budget because all of the tax revenues Or in the case of the 50% collected from whoever.

In short for the next 30 years even if 10,000 people move in next to the stadium the cities general budget does not see a dime,or until the 440 million is paid for.

But the city still needs to come up with infrastructure repairs,improvements etc.

It creates tax dead zones and is based of future speculation and if all that buildout does not occur then the residents have to come up with the funds from somewhere else.

You want them to sign a 30 year note and cannot even let them preserve a little bit of thier past history?

[Bham1982]

A

I keep repeating myself, but I can cite some GREAT examples of how stadium and arena led to creation of neighborhoods.

Nationals Park and Verizon Center have zero to do with the revitalization of downtown DC.

Putting aside the fact that the Nationals Park area still sucks, the Verizon Center area was revitalized as downtown DC shifted east during the 1990's and 2000's. It was happening long before Verizon Center, and would have happened regardless.

And the expansion was fed by massive increases in office and hotel space owing to the huge expansion of federal agencies, contractors, and lawyers/consultants during the Clinton and Bush II eras.

If Verizon Center were never built there would be a huge office building on the site, and the block would be more more active and generate far more employment and tax revenue.

[emu steve]

Nationals Park and Verizon Center have zero to do with the revitalization of downtown DC.

Putting aside the fact that the Nationals Park area still sucks, the Verizon Center area was revitalized as downtown DC shifted east during the 1990's and 2000's. It was happening long before Verizon Center, and would have happened regardless.

And the expansion was fed by massive increases in office and hotel space owing to the huge expansion of federal agencies, contractors, and lawyers/consultants during the Clinton and Bush II eras.

If Verizon Center were never built there would be a huge office building on the site, and the block would be more more active and generate far more employment and tax revenue.

Okay, since I can't convince you even of Nationals Park area.

How about Buzzard Point?

This article describes the 'land rush' occurring NOW at the site of the D.C. United stadium [[ground broke earlier this year):

http://www.bizjournals.com/washingto...have-been.html

[[don't know if one needs to be registered to access this article. It has a map with stick pins showing development activity).

Here are a couple paragraphs:

"There's been a virtual land rush in Buzzard Point as developers such as Akridge, Douglas Development Corp. and MRP Realty seek to benefit from D.C. United'splanned soccer stadium, but now a new player could enter the field.The owners of an auto repair shop at 45 Q St. SW have retained the Zupanic Group, in collaboration with the Feldman Group of Marcus & Millichap, to seek buyers for the real estate just north of the site where the Major League Soccer team broke ground earlier this week."

Here is Wikipedia's description of Buzzard Point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzard_Point

"Although officially the name of only the tip of the peninsula, the term "Buzzard Point" now serves to identify much or all of an urbanized area south of M Street SW and west of South Capitol Street SW, excluding Fort McNair. The area has long been known as a rather grim industrial backwater of the city." [[emphasis mine).

There was a scrap metal yard there. There is still a concrete operation there. They had to move and re-do a Pepco [[D.C.'s version of DTE) substation.

[MicrosoftFan]

Navy Yard area is now a hopping place with white Starbucks liberals pouring in by the thousands. Very gentrified and a nice place.

[emu steve]

Navy Yard area is now a hopping place with white Starbucks liberals pouring in by the thousands. Very gentrified and a nice place.

Probably true. I was there a couple days ago. Shopped at the Harris Teeter.

They tried to add some 'worker' housing but most of was built with 100% private monies so a lot of $1,500 - 2,500 / month rentals.

The ball park area was literally built from the 'ground up.' Wasn't a residential area.

[archfan]

Also, it is likely that the "historic" apartment buildings will never get remodeled. They will be too expensive to fix and some developer will knock them down and put a gravel parking lot there. If we want to encourage a densely populated area around Cass Park/LCS, it's not going to start in some rundown apartment buildings that look like they were plucked out of 70s Harlem.

I can't let this go. Have you been at all following what people have been doing to the historical buildings in Midtown? Buildings in much worse shape have been rehabbed into apartments for years now.

[ct_alum]

How much does Ilitch pay you for this gig? I'm seriously interested.

Yes, Steve please give it a rest. You've earned your paycheck from Ilitch for this week.

[emu steve]

Yes, Steve please give it a rest. You've earned your paycheck from Ilitch for this week.

And the Ilitch haters on this forum?

Can the U.N. send peacekeepers here? Lol.

This site is "DetroitYes" not "IlitchNo."

I agree this site would be 100% better if folks would discuss brick and mortar and not ad hominem attacks on those trying to make Detroit better.

[Richard]

And the Ilitch haters on this forum?

Can the U.N. send peacekeepers here? Lol.

This site is "DetroitYes" not "IlitchNo."

I agree this site would be 100% better if folks would discuss brick and mortar and not ad hominem attacks on those trying to make Detroit better.

I would be more concerned if residents were not getting involved,I believe
everybody posting here wants nothing more then to see Detroit succeed and get better.

I also belive that there is also a learning curve and realize that it is smart citizenship to get better in a more responsible way then what has happened in the past.

I also believe that asking the same citizens to fund $450 million dollars and realize that for the next 30 years no tax collection will occur on that site, other then residual buildout based on speculation,to basically shut up and sit down and trust us is a bit of a stretch.

Yes the tax capture includes school funds but the state has agreed to make up that difference,so now it is trusting the state to do that in the best interests of the city and private investment in the surrounding district to make up the difference.

The next thing coming down the line is all of that proposed private investment in residential,hotels etc. are going to be coming to the DDA and asking for the exact same thing.

The entire area gets rehabilitated but the city coffers short term will see no revenue tax streams outside of actual jobs and paychecks spent in other businesses in the city,hopefully.

Long term 30 years down the road it should be good for the city,but 30 years down the road then the stadium is old and out dated and the call for a replacement will begin,rinse and repeat.

So one is asking the residents to give up a large part of the city to create a dead zone for the next 30 years in tax revenues and the residents are asking in exchange to at least perserve a little bit of the cities history.

Why is that even an issue or that complicated?

[ABetterDetroit]

This site is "DetroitYes" not "IlitchNo."

You don't see the irony do you?

Nobody on on this board ever could come anywhere close to keeping the Ilitch failures right in the top ten subjects here constantly than you Steve.

You launch into your daily worship then mountains and reems of evidence to the contrary comes out of scores of posters eroding the family reputation here daily and in perpetuity.

No, you are not on the payroll that's for sure. People like you are a public relations deptment's worst nightmare. They want the bad stuff to fade away, you succeed in dredging it up constantly.

[Honky Tonk]

And the Ilitch haters on this forum?

Can the U.N. send peacekeepers here? Lol.

This site is "DetroitYes" not "IlitchNo."

I agree this site would be 100% better if folks would discuss brick and mortar and not ad hominem attacks on those trying to make Detroit better.

Nice try, Steve. Trying to turn it around so you and Mikey are the victims here. 25 square miles of asphalt for personal gain isn't my definition of making Detroit "better". Especially when my tax dollars are being used to do it.

[Towne Cluber]

...I believe
everybody posting here wants nothing more then [[sic) to see Detroit succeed and get better.

Common sense, private conversations that I've heard from some so-called Detroit boosters, and even some comments that some so-called pro-Detroiters have made on this forum would say otherwise.

[ct_alum]

And the Ilitch haters on this forum?

Can the U.N. send peacekeepers here? Lol.

This site is "DetroitYes" not "IlitchNo."

I agree this site would be 100% better if folks would discuss brick and mortar and not ad hominem attacks on those trying to make Detroit better.

Steve: What is your zip code? Mine is 48224. Just curious, easy to advocate for welfare for the rich when the negative impacts don't affect your city.

[kathy2trips]

Tokyo has Godzilla; Detroit has Illitch.

[Zads07]

Bumping this because guess what, Olympia has contractors out prepping for demolition of the buildings......

Apparently one of the workers at the site said they are going to be demolished next week. We've got another Madison-Lenox on our hands.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYJAUqcg...by=markthehall

https://www.facebook.com/BuildingHug...type=2&theater

https://www.facebook.com/events/7142...A%22null%22%7D

[dtowncitylover]

Complete bullshit. And to read the the order was rescinded on a "promise"?! City Council fucked up that one! FFS...

[southen]

It is hard to imagine why anyone would dislike this family...

[Junjie]

Complete bullshit. And to read the the order was rescinded on a "promise"?! City Council fucked up that one! FFS...

Money quote from Curbed: "[Amy] Swift tells Curbed that the historic designation was never fully implemented and that city council rescinded it, instead keeping a gentleman’s agreement that Olympia wouldn’t demo the building. City Council is not in session this week."

For the record, the idea that these lots are needed for arena parking is asinine. The epicenter of the Foxtown parking crater is 1/3 mile walk from the arena, and the north end of the parking crater is within 1/4 mile. There is very little overlap in terms of dates between Tigers parking and Wings/Pistons parking. And anyone who still can't walk that distance for some reason can either pay to park in the new structures built right next to the arena or can use the QLine.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Money quote from Curbed: "[Amy] Swift tells Curbed that the historic designation was never fully implemented and that city council rescinded it, instead keeping a gentleman’s agreement that Olympia wouldn’t demo the building. City Council is not in session this week."

For the record, the idea that these lots are needed for arena parking is asinine. The epicenter of the Foxtown parking crater is 1/3 mile walk from the arena, and the north end of the parking crater is within 1/4 mile. There is very little overlap in terms of dates between Tigers parking and Wings/Pistons parking. And anyone who still can't walk that distance for some reason can either pay to park in the new structures built right next to the arena or can use the QLine.

You can't possibly have a "gentleman's agreement" with the Illitch organization. You can't really even rely on legally binding requirements after all.

[Honky Tonk]

Money quote from Curbed: "[Amy] Swift tells Curbed that the historic designation was never fully implemented and that city council rescinded it, instead keeping a gentleman’s agreement that Olympia wouldn’t demo the building. City Council is not in session this week."

For the record, the idea that these lots are needed for arena parking is asinine. The epicenter of the Foxtown parking crater is 1/3 mile walk from the arena, and the north end of the parking crater is within 1/4 mile. There is very little overlap in terms of dates between Tigers parking and Wings/Pistons parking. And anyone who still can't walk that distance for some reason can either pay to park in the new structures built right next to the arena or can use the QLine.

This is the same Mike Ilitch that said a Blight Rail was needed because parking wasn't going to be allowed within 2 blocks of Comerica Park for "security reasons".

[Junjie]

This is the same Mike Ilitch that said a Blight Rail was needed because parking wasn't going to be allowed within 2 blocks of Comerica Park for "security reasons".

Mike Ilitch died six months ago. While I know Chris has been running things for awhile, still disappointing to see the continued shady behavior.

[Jason]

I think it's a stretch to say that these buildings have architectural or historical distinction, but I'd rather have them there than a parking lot.


I think they're good at "business" but not anything else. Little Caesars is good at making money and terrible at making pizza. I think their arena endeavors will make a lot of money and will be tacky and soulless. Some things are genuinely very good, but there were also a lot of dumb decisions where the right choices were pretty obvious.

[MicrosoftFan]

Little Caesars is my favorite pizza. Beats out even some sit down restaurants in my mind. Am I crazy?

[K-slice]

All Olympia has done so far is build a stadium and surround it with parking garages! I knew the feigned desire to create an actual neighborhood and all those rendering of the UA Building, American Hotel, etc were all just smoke and mirrors.

Olympia and Illich JR are interested in nothing but stadiums and parking. Always have been and always will be. I just can't believe this family continues to fool the rubes who still say "Oh Mr. I has done so many great things for the city"... The Fox reno was a looong time ago and yet somehow that blocks out all the bad they have done for downtown to some.

[SammyS]

Parking lots are a great opportunity to land bank. Relatively cheap to build, low maintenance, reliable revenue stream, low operating costs and most importantly, they hold or appreciate in value.

If this was the hidden agenda all along, then shame on them and those entrusted in managing these deals should be held accountable. If evidence is presented of wrong doing, property should be forfeited and put up for public auction as a high density development site ONLY. All of this is speculation on my part so I hope I'm wrong and they come through with thier original plans/proposals/promises