Your "White Flight" Story

[grm]

I never lived in Detroit but my mother's family [[lived on the East side, near Grand Blvd. & Gratiot) left when she was a child in the early 50's because of crime + someone was stabbed on their lawn. My husband's family managed to hold out longer [[they lived further East: Outer Drive & Chalmers) and he ended up living there until he was about 4 [[early 80's). They also left because of too much violence/hearing gun shots at night.

Makes me sad that in my lifetime [[born 1980) I don't have a memory of the city being safe, functioning & alive. I get jealous of the stories of my parents and in-laws but I also can't imagine how much it hurts have been in this great city in its heyday and then to see it fall.

[Meddle]

Here's the view from my front driveway.

WWWaaaaayyyy too many house in that picture. My view is all nature. Not another house in sight in any direction. Many times each day, I can't hear a man-made sound of any kind.

Born and raised in MoTown, good times and bad. Owned two house in the city, one in a 'Burb in between the two.

Caught the Big Bubble in '98 when I found out houses in my area were selling for considerably more than the $40~K I paid. Sold it for a little over $70K [[not worth anywhere near that in my opinion).

Moved 600 miles or so southwest, bought an old farm house on a few acres for less than $30K. Property taxes are about $300/year. Insurance on two cars is around $700/year. Get to watch deer, rabbits, raccoons and all sorts of other critters from my back deck.

The only gunfire around here is the rednecks target shooting and the hunters when in season.

[Meddle]

I see a lot of reference points here and different dates and events that drove people out. But for me, the city was never the same and had lost all hope after the '74 city election. It was all downhill from there. Some seem to think it has finally begun to turn around some 30 years later, but I'm not so sure.

What I do know for sure is that there is absolutely NOTHING that could get me back there, even to visit for a few days.

[Oddz313]

Wait. What? Are you implying there's no "good ole boy" network in engineering? Not to refute, but why would that be?

[[Sincerely. Not trying a set up anyone here. I just find it surprising that engineering might have some social integrity. LOL!)

Edit for a disclaimer: I've worked in both engineering environments, "good ole boy" & "open-minded." In my experience the latter was much more successful for the company.

True genius rarely follows authoritarian rules. Sycophants are most often idiots.

Ya it is still very beneficial to be in the who you know crowd than the what you know crowd, that is why I might be leaving after the holidays.

[jackie5275]

After living in Warrendale in the early 90s, I got engaged to a guy from the State Fair-Schoenherr area. He wanted to move due to increased crime in that neighborhood. We got a house in Lincoln Park when we got married. I would've preferred to stay in Warrendale for a little bit longer, but it's just as well. The building I was living in burned down a few years later.

[Hermod]

Back in the mid 1980s, I was visiting my parents out in Rochester. Pop grew up around St Clair and Warren and was very familiar with the lower east side. He was relating to me a business shindig he attended in the RenCen. He said that he looked out from high up in the building at his old haunts and the only thing he could think of was the pictures of the bombed out cities in Europe from WWII.

[Meddle]

^^ Remember that the mid 80s was the peak era for Devil's Night and also the Russell Street corridor fires. I can remember four or five at a time along Russell Street and literally full blocks of burned out hulks in between the active fires. In places there were only two or three unburned houses on a block and you pretty well knew they'd be gone in the next few weeks. So, the analogy is not all that far off from Dresden.

[DetroitGuy423]

My great grand parents along with my Grandmother lived in SW Detroit in a house somewhere between Magnolia and Ash and 23rd and Lawton, which now has the Jeffries running through it. They lived there in the 20s and into the 30s before moving to Flint for an automotive job [[or at least that's the reason that has been passed down). In the 1980s, my great grand parents, who were in their late 80s at the time, traveled to their old neighborhood and visited their old home. The woman living there was friendly and showed them the house, but then told them they should leave immediately as it was not save for them to be there.


One of these days this summer, I'm going to see if I can find the address and see if the house is still standing. **EDIT - They lived at 3539 Tillman, which is now a vacant lot according to google maps.

[Hermod]

1941-1954, I lived on Nottingham near Grayton. According to Google Earth, our block doesn't look too bad, but the next block south has a couple of burnouts on it [[to include the former home of one of my elementary school classmates.

[Lowell]

White Flight, race-driven flight, or to use the code speak of the early 70’s, “when the people got out” was the middle phase of Detroit’s depopulation. It was not that much of a factor during the first 15 years of Detroit’s population decline.

As you students of Detroit know, Detroit population was down 3-400K by 1967. The downward spiral was in full motion when the storm surge of 1967, and the panicked blockbusting years that followed, hit Detroit.

I think of those early emigres and those of the black middle class beginning in the 90’s as “American Dreamer” flights. The early ones were earning union middle class wages, living in upper-lowers with no yards and parking on the street. Who could resist a new 3 bedroom with a two car garage and big back yard? Especially with generous tax-deductible loans available and the new expressway grid making job location less relevant. Throw in lower property taxes, avoiding the new city income tax, and buh bye.

The 90’s Dreamer wave was reaching for better schools and city services, public safety, and lower insurance and tax rates. “The people” of race-driven flight era were long gone by then.

In recent year I have seen a upsurge in young people thinking like I did when I was their age and bought my Highland Park arts and craft beauty for $20K. Where else could I get a magnificent home for so little and be next to the center of all the art, culture, major league sports and entertainment within 250 miles?

I think Detroit population has a ways to down yet, currently being driven by Wayne County-driven foreclosures, but the tipping point is close and the city is starting to work again.

[Hermod]

Lowell, there wasn't much "expressway grid" before the 60s.

In the 1950s, the suburban schools were in much worse shape than the Detroit schools. Rochester schools were rundown or non-existent when we moved there in 1964. The combined jr and sr high school in Rochester was old, antiquated, and had much less in the way of gym, auditorium, and vocational facilities then they had at Denby High School or Jackson Intermediate when I went to those schools. City services were virtually non-existent. The tax rate was low, but you paid a lot for home insurance because it was only a volunteer fire department and there were no hydrants.

[Richard]

Ya it is still very beneficial to be in the who you know crowd than the what you know crowd, that is why I might be leaving after the holidays.

For what it is worth you will find that anywhere you go and in just about any trade or skill.

[Bham1982]

White Flight, race-driven flight, or to use the code speak of the early 70’s, “when the people got out” was the middle phase of Detroit’s depopulation. It was not that much of a factor during the first 15 years of Detroit’s population decline.

Correct. Much of the earlier suburban flight was because Detroit was too desirable, not because it was undesirable. Detroit [[generally speaking) had higher home prices, better schools and much better services than its suburban equivalents, up until the mid 60's or so. The flight to suburbs was largely because people couldn't afford a nice home in the city.

By the mid 60's or so, the city was getting rocked by a number of bad long-term trends, and the legacy black neighborhoods had been destroyed, meaning hundreds of thousands of blacks were pushing into formerly white areas. This was the height of White Flight.

Since the 1990's or so, flight is almost entirely black, because there aren't enough whites anywhere, and there is no racial angle, really, because they're leaving all-black neighborhoods. Black families often wanted the suburban lifestyle too, and became fed up with urban ills. And the former racist barriers to suburban living had lessened.

[ArchNigel]

Since I have no immediate family that ever lived in Detroit proper, I might as well share the closest thing I have: the story of my mother's family's story of migration through Flint and the suburbs [[my dad's family is from Newport News, VA, and the surrounding areas; they will not be mentioned)

The first, immediately-related, generation to come down to Flint was that of my grandparents. They decamped from a rural farming community [[about 30 minutes from Cadillac) to Flint around 1959. They moved into a 2-flat at 618 Buckingham Ave, in the city's South Side, near the Dort/Hemphill area. After a few years, they moved into a recently-built home-in the same neighborhood-at 810 Dell Ave [[it had been built a few years earlier, and the original owners were selling it). Both 618 Buckingham and 810 Dell are still standing, and in fairly decent condition; the neighborhood has fared fairly well over the years.

At the time, my grandfather had some relatives who lived in this area [[one of his uncles lived in a home on McKeighan Ave, in the "older" section of this neighborhood; I'll have to ask my grandmother if she remembers the address, and one of his brothers [[IIRC) lived nearby in the "new" section, just down the street); other members of the family lived in Flint's Mott Park neighborhood, near the Chevrolet Plant, on the city's West Side.

After a few years in this neighborhood [[Dort/Hemphill area), my grandparents got the urge to move back to the "country", having just come from a farming community a few years earlier. They thusly moved to the then-rather-rural suburb of Swartz Creek, making sure to pick up a few acres of land on their way. They still live in Swartz Creek to this day, in the same house they had custom-built in 1964. Since then, my mother [[and father) have moved out to the Flint suburb of Grand Blanc, in her oldest brother's former house, and both of her brothers have had custom homes built in the nearby suburb of Fenton.

P. S. The relatives that used to live in the Mott Park neighborhood have since left [[some time around the 1980's-1990's, IIRC), due to rising crime rates in and around that neighborhood. Mott Park itself is still fairly decent, but the areas directly North, East, and West have suffered precipitous declines over the last 40 years, and have affected quality of life in Mott Park accordingly; it is currently a sort of peninsula of safety. The family members who stayed in the Dort/Hemphill neighborhood are no longer there, as they have since passed away.

[Meddle]

Just wandering around the old neighborhood on Street View a bit and was surprised to find that only one house is gone and reduced to a vacant lot. The rest are all intact and seem to be well maintained. Yards are mowed, bushes trimmed neatly. Even a couple of driveways replaced with new concrete. Sidewalks at intersections have been replaced with ramps.

The old Red Devil restaurant is shown as something called 'Club Caribbean'. Used to be a hardware store that has been replaced by something else, but the funeral home is still there.

Images appear to be dated 2013, so things may have changed in 4 years.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Black flight, or relocation is for sure a factor, increasingly so! Even black families moving into suburbs such as Livonia and Dearborn [[which were former no-go suburbs) is common these days. I worked in Farmington and Farmington Hills and noted more black people moving there. I have a family members, friends and colleagues spread out those and other areas.

....Since the 1990's or so, flight is almost entirely black, because there aren't enough whites anywhere, and there is no racial angle, really, because they're leaving all-black neighborhoods. Black families often wanted the suburban lifestyle too, and became fed up with urban ills. And the former racist barriers to suburban living had lessened.

[Lowell]

Yep. Black flight, or relocation is for sure a factor, increasingly so! Even black families moving into suburbs such as Livonia and Dearborn [[which were former no-go suburbs) is common these days. I worked in Farmington and Farmington Hills and noted more black people moving there. I have a family members, friends and colleagues spread out those and other areas.

Farmington/Farmington Hills are a combined 18% African American citizenry, higher than USA 13% national percentage.

[Danny]

Farmington/Farmington Hills are a combined 18% African American citizenry, higher than USA 13% national percentage.

City of Farmington, MI. has 13% of black population. Most of them are living in apts. along Grand River from Middlebelt Rd. to Drake Rd. and some areas along Farmington Rd. from 8 to 9 Mile Rd.

The black population along Grand River Rd. between Drake Rd to Halsted Rd had been slowly declining due to fast growing East Indian population.

By the way HELLO NEIGHBOR!!

[313WX]

Farmington/Farmington Hills are a combined 18% African American citizenry, higher than USA 13% national percentage.

I suspect that percentage will have increased significantly by the 2020 census.

[Wintersmommy]

My family left in the 50s
My Grandparents lived on San Juan st in a home they built in 37-ish, just west of Livernois between 7 mile and outer drive [[the house was in great shape)
They moved to 1508 Roseland St in Royal Oak to a home they built sometime in the early 50's

The reason for the move was that my grandmother was a teacher at Louis Pasteur School in the neighborhood and she got tired of having to teach kids "basic hygiene and wanted to focus on teaching subjects". I got the impression that the kids she was teaching were moving into the district from rural areas...no idea if that was code for "black kids".
She started teaching in Royal oak and my grandfather commuted via rail to the city for his printing job until retirement

[masterblaster]

"White flight" presupposes a start and a stop. It does not address "black flight".

"Wealth Flight" might be a better term so as to avoid the time-worn finger-pointing that goes along with the subject at hand.

Detroit became a place that was either a place you couldn't afford to leave or you were so comfortable that you didn't have to.

The vast flight of middle-class wealth is what has killed, and still is, The American City.

Don't be so parochial as to think wealth flight hasn't harmed almost every city in America. In short, Detroit ain't that special. Get over your self-coronation of urban victim with a golden order of moral superiority because of your ZipCode.

You can't ascribe racist motives to a white family who left in '66 without doing the same to a black family who left in '15

As far as I know, blacks and whites who worked in the auto factories and auto supplier factories made the same wages. In addition, Detroit's black population peaked between 1990 and 2000 at around 780,000. If it was just wealth flight, Detroit's black population would have started decreasing in the 1950's just like the white population decreased - because they made the same wages and could afford to move out to the suburbs.

However, the black population did not start decreasing until the 1990's/2000's decade. So I can't get on board that it was just wealth flight, when middle class blacks that made the same wages, didn't move out to the suburbs en masse until much later than white folks.

[Danny]

Is anyone is going to see the Detroit, '67 movie in August? You will be surprised where accelerated white and wealth flight took its toll.

[Bham1982]

If it was just wealth flight, Detroit's black population would have started decreasing in the 1950's just like the white population decreased - because they made the same wages and could afford to move out to the suburbs.

Blacks couldn't really move to the suburbs, though. There were racial covenants, and many communities were openly hostile. Southfield, beginning in the 80's, was really the first middle class suburb where blacks were welcome [[probably thanks to the fact that Southfield back then was Jewish and progressive).

However, the black population did not start decreasing until the 1990's/2000's decade.

By this period, racial covenants had ended, and cultural resistance to black suburbanization has lessened considerably. I don't think those are the only reasons, but they're primary reasons. Prior to this era, blacks who had "made it" were mostly in NW Detroit. Now they could be anywhere.

Bloomfield Hills, to take an example, has a really visible black population nowadays. West Bloomfield, even moreso. Twenty years ago there were basically no blacks in these communities. You go into the Whole Foods on Orchard Lake and the store is an almost even racial split.

And Macomb had a really bad rep. as being racially hostile. Those days are largely gone, and South Macomb has a significant black population almost everywhere. Everytime a Polish/Italian/German granny passes in South Macomb, there's a decent chance that home will be purchased by a young black family.

[Hermod]

When I went to school in Detroit [[1944-1954), I never saw a black student, a black teacher, a black janitor, or a black cafeteria worker [[Wayne Elementary, Jackson Intermediate, Denby High). When we moved to Rochester in 1954, there were black students in the schools.

[erikd]

Calling it "White Flight" tells me you have an agenda.

I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

I never considered this to be a loaded/offensive etc. term. I have always thought of it similar to the term "Great Migration", or other descriptions and terms that are used to define a large movement of people from one place to another.

I am white myself. Most of my grandparents/parents/aunts/uncles used to live in the city of Detroit, and moved out to the suburbs during the "White Flight" period. I feel like the term "White Flight" has been used to describe this for as long as I can remember, and I don't recall any of my family members being offended by that term. I certainly have never been offended by that term. That has just been the colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...