Your "White Flight" Story

[Former_Detroiter]

[QUOTE=erikd;528275]I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

I never considered this to be a loaded/offensive etc. term. I have always thought of it similar to the term "Great Migration", or other descriptions and terms that are used to define a large movement of people from one place to another.

I am white myself. Most of my grandparents/parents/aunts/uncles used to live in the city of Detroit, and moved out to the suburbs during the "White Flight" period. I feel like the term "White Flight" has been used to describe this for as long as I can remember, and I don't recall any of my family members being offended by that term. I certainly have never been offended by that term. That has just been the colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...

[Former_Detroiter]

[QUOTE=Former_Detroiter;528365]

I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

I never considered this to be a loaded/offensive etc. term. I have always thought of it similar to the term "Great Migration", or other descriptions and terms that are used to define a large movement of people from one place to another.

I am white myself. Most of my grandparents/parents/aunts/uncles used to live in the city of Detroit, and moved out to the suburbs during the "White Flight" period. I feel like the term "White Flight" has been used to describe this for as long as I can remember, and I don't recall any of my family members being offended by that term. I certainly have never been offended by that term. That has just been the colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...

IMO The term White Flight as it relates to the City of Detroit meant running away from an undesirable situation or environment. The Great Migration meant running to a more desirable situation or environment. The fact that you or your family do not find the term White Flight offensive is not surprising. If you are able to look at it from a different perspective you might understand why the term might be offensive.

[Meddle]

Two trash pickups???

Yep. I didn't really understand it [[just a kid). Our next door neighbors had it, but we didn't. Different day of the week too from the regular. Same big city trucks though.

Might have been something they had to sign up for.

[oladub]

My parents decided to move in 1963 when they received a letter stating that my step-brother and I were to be bussed from our Finney High to Eastern High. I never knew about that letter until 2005 when my father told me about it. I had always blamed my step-mother for social climbing, even to her face. I don't know why they didn't tell us about that letter. Perhaps they didn't want me to blame African-Americans or politicians for the situation. I went to Grosse Pointe High School [[South) instead of Eastern High after that.

I later moved back to Detroit and lived on W. Ferry between Cass and Woodward while working construction. It was a good time.

[SammyS]

Briefly skimmed through the thread so I apologize if this has already come up.

Downtown is majority white on most days. Granted they could be just visiting but, there are plenty of whites living in the same condo complex I rent out. These places are neither cheap to rent or buy.

Has anyone brought up the observation that wealthy whites are actually starting to move back in?

[Honky Tonk]

Has anyone brought up the observation that wealthy whites are actually starting to move back in?

Well, There goes the neighborhood.

[a100driver]

Hello, minimal poster here but longtime lurker. Fascinating subject here. I wanted to share our story. Both of my parents grew up at 7 mile and a Chalmers. When they married [[1951) they bought a house on the corner of Bloom and Lantz [[7 mile mound area). By 1960 they had 3 kids in a 700 sq. Foot house. They moved to Warren not because of changing neighborhoods, but economics. My dad could get a brand new 1200 sq. Foot house on a 50x150 lot for less than an old house in Detroit on a smaller lot. Who wouldn't do that? As for my grandparents, they moved out in 1979 and 1981 respectively. Multiple break-ins in a neighborhood where not that long before door locking was not required did it for them. Plus someone burning down one of their garages from the alley didn't help either. Seems like that neighborhood got very dangerous very quickly.

[Mackenzie68]

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655...egated-america

I listened to this interview and heard my father's thinking on neighborhoods and ethnicity explained so clearly that it was uncanny. My family moved to Detroit in 1955 from Ecorse Township [[now Southgate) so I could get a better education. In 1967 their intent was to move to our cottage in Hamburg Township so i could finish high school in Pinckney. The only reason that didn't happen was that Pinckney H.S. was not accredited at that time. My parents stayed in the house near Plymouth and Shafer until other families on the block sold to "them" and then headed first to try a year at the cottage [[miserably cold) in 1969 and then to Redford Township in 1970. I moved back to a rental home on Evergreen south of Joy in 1977 and then left for California in 1981. I tried to buy a home in the city in 1980 and 81, and found out exactly how redlining worked. Standard Federal would not write a mortgage for any house I looked at in the city limits but repeatedly suggested that I look in the suburbs. Not what my idealistic self wanted and when the chance to move cross country came, I went, feeling forced out.

[Zacha341]

Good point there. The distinction is the difference!

IMO The term White Flight as it relates to the City of Detroit meant running away from an undesirable situation or environment. The Great Migration meant running to a more desirable situation or environment. The fact that you or your family do not find the term White Flight offensive is not surprising. If you are able to look at it from a different perspective you might understand why the term might be offensive.

[GPCharles]

Moved in 1958 to a bigger house in GPP. Family had grown and there were no big houses with big yards in our section of town [[eastside).

[erikd]

Hello erikd: Since you chose my quote, perhaps I should respond.

I would also second what Honky Tonk wrote. The implication by those folks calling it “White Flight” is that those who left Detroit are, “…racists" that "abandoned" Detroit because they didn't like the skin color of their neighbors.” And that could not be farther from the truth.

Same could be said for those using the term “Weatlh Flight.” That, somehow, someway, those folks that wanted something different, left Detroit in order to make their neighbors poorer and the city less livable – on PURPOSE. From my observations, those that claimed, “Wealth Flight” were the same folks that denied the “Trickle Down” theory of economics. So, if there is no wealth trickling down, then how would a person leaving town have a negative effect on me?

If the folks using these terms really meant to say “Great Migration,“ then they would have called it that.

Instead, they chose racially-tinged adjectives and described moving to the suburbs in an irrational panic - as in FLIGHT. But, by using those specific terms, they want to perpetuate their agenda of victimhood.

Maybe you didn’t understand it that way because, as you say, “… it was colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...“ Perhaps, now is the time to speak to those with an agenda.

I can see your point [[echoed by other posters on this thread as well) that the term "white flight" can have negative connotations. I only asked the question because I don't ever recall anyone objecting to that term before, so I was surprised to hear a number of people say that it was offensive.

We have discussed "white flight" on this forum many times over the years, and I don't recall anyone saying that they found it to be offensive. There has also been a lot of discussion about the "black flight" out of Detroit over the last 20 years or so, and I don't recall anyone objecting to that term either. In fact, there is an active thread about black flight on this forum right now, with nobody objecting to the terminology.

[Dan Wesson]

Let's not forget that "White Flight" is a homonym. It's a catchy, rhyming label. A catch phrase, great for a sound bite. It's a great hook.

[GMan]

Let's not forget that "White Flight" is a homonym. It's a catchy, rhyming label. A catch phrase, great for a sound bite. It's a great hook.

It's a catchy phrase. One that I have only heard used in a derogatory manner.

Pays to be thick skinned in today's world.

[Wintersmommy]

related...not related...super interesting
best pod case I have hear in forever and if you are short on time skip to act II which is all about Detroit and Warren
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/rad...12/house-rules

[jcole]

A homonym is two words that sound alike that are spelled differently and have different meanings. IE "pair, pare, pear" or "two, too, to". White Flight is more like Cockney rhyming slang

Let's not forget that "White Flight" is a homonym. It's a catchy, rhyming label. A catch phrase, great for a sound bite. It's a great hook.

[Dan Wesson]

A homonym is two words that sound alike that are spelled differently and have different meanings. IE "pair, pare, pear" or "two, too, to". White Flight is more like Cockney rhyming slang

I stand corrected.

[archfan]

A homonym is two words that sound alike that are spelled differently and have different meanings. IE "pair, pare, pear" or "two, too, to". White Flight is more like Cockney rhyming slang

If that's the case, what's the rhyme - fright?

[Lombaowski]

"White flight" is in the parlance of our times, it is an accepted and colloquial term and anyone taking offense is probably so PC that they aren't worth engaging.

Detroit's issues are so deep and wide you can't just donate time to one particular side effect without dealing with hundreds of others. De-Industrialization and racism are the two main pillars however, I think those who are most in-tune with the city's history understand that.

Sure people could leave for better parcels and lower taxes but people generally don't leave their homes in places they grew up for a 20% gain in Warren or Rochester Hills. I can understand dancing around the issues with non-Detroiters but some of the posts in this thread are hitting with mittens, not with fists.

My maternal Grandparents settled in Detroit in the 1910s/20s from Poland and Lithuania. My Paternal grandparents in the 50s from Alpena and California. My maternal grandparents left in the 50s for Saginaw and better opportunities, my paternal grandparents left upon my Grandpa's death in the early 90s.

I was born at Henry Ford hospital and lived in the city until I was 14, in the mid 1980s. I am from Franklin Park, on the far west side near Detroit Cody HS. My childhood was great, despite over 700 murders in 1974 and growing up in the height of the crack epidemic. The east side of the Southfield Freeway was the border, we were told to never cross there with our bikes. We did anyway, and we went to Rouge Park in the 80s when there were so many crack addicts and dealers that we couldn't play basketball sometimes because there were people sleeping on the courts.

We moved out of the city in 1986, mostly because the school system was crashing and the crime finally reached our enclave. Black families had moved in in the 70s and many of them left before we did. My Dad worked for the railroad so as the auto industries were slowly dying, opportunities were abound for us to relocate.

We didn't, we waited. The amount of crime that rolled in like a tidal wave in the mid 80s was overpowering though. Kids I went to middle school with starting getting in shootouts with other kids from other places, all for territory in the crack trade. Then our garage got broken into, then again, then again. When someone tried to break into the house in the early morning in the summer of '86 that was the last straw. My Dad put the house up the next day, we left as I was trying out to be a Cody Comet football player.

We didn't leave because there were blacks in our neighborhood, they were some of the best neighbors we had. We left because the crime was becoming out of control and the school system was crumbling. I was always in trouble, I probably would have ended up dealing crack myself since I was always an industrious kid.

My parents had that and a daughter four years my junior, Detroit became an outlaw state in our neighborhood like it had in so many others two decades prior. Sure you can blame Coleman Young for a lot of this, but you can also blame his predecessors who absolutely oppressed minorities in spite of federal law and guidelines. While all the racial bs was happening the auto industry was bloated and inefficient, overtaken by the superior Japanese automakers who were building Corollas and not Pintos.

It's a vicious cycle, I love that city more than I love my own family. I still do, I love Detroit so much. I've lived there 16 years, came back after I left the military to give it a second chance.

I'm glad my Dad raised me to not be racist, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim, or anti-anything really as far as race or creed goes. I have always chose to like or dislike people on an individual basis based on merit, not on stereotypes and prejudice. I do think I am in the minority though, we didn't leave the city because of prejudice we left because it was a dysfunctional situation with little upside. Reality is a bitch, Detroit is as real as the American story gets.

I defend the city to this day from folks who have never set foot in it, the click bait asshats who have no soul. For as flawed as my city is, it will always be home to me. It's the American dream and the American nightmare rolled into one complicated Pączki.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Nah. They were all wearing Nike Airs, sweats and hoodies.

Yeah, if they were dressed like that, they were after you. SMH...

[GMan]

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It's the American dream and the American nightmare rolled into one complicated Pączki.

That phrase describes Detroit nicely.
It's delicious and tempting but you can't eat the whole thing in one sitting.

[Zacha341]

Sounds like the 'last straw' factor that can be applied to anyone when enough is enough! Especially relative to family and property.

Crime remains a deterrent to some who'd otherwise come to Detroit or choose to live [[black and white)....

We didn't, we waited. The amount of crime that rolled in like a tidal wave in the mid 80s was overpowering though. Kids I went to middle school with starting getting in shootouts with other kids from other places, all for territory in the crack trade. Then our garage got broken into, then again, then again. When someone tried to break into the house in the early morning in the summer of '86 that was the last straw. My Dad put the house up the next day, we left as I was trying out to be a Cody Comet football player.

[jcole]

If that's the case, what's the rhyme - fright?

White rhymes with Flight.

[archfan]

White rhymes with Flight.

Here's info on Cockney rhyming slang. Trouble-and-strife is substituted for wife. Dog-and-bone is substituted for telephone. So what would white-flight be a substitute for?

[jcole]

Here's info on Cockney rhyming slang. Trouble-and-strife is substituted for wife. Dog-and-bone is substituted for telephone. So what would white-flight be a substitute for?

Ok, then it's not like anything but a rhyme; it's definitely not a homonym.

[Vitalis]

1952-1975, Drugs and the crime movement out Grand River did it for my parents. Police helicopters roaming our neighborhood didn't help either. Housing stock was also an issue. Seemingly no one was renovating or rebuilding on enough lots to keep the pioneer spirit of preserving the neighborhood in effect. The Grandmont community may be stronger today than it was in the 1970's. Good luck.