Ben Carson: poverty is a 'state of mind'

[Tig3rzhark]

This man is pretty popular, considering that he was raised here in Detroit.

He has a Public School named after him here.

And he is now the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, despite he has no experience in the field. He would have been better off as the U.S. Surgeon General, but I disgress.

I'm starting a new thread here in hopes to gather the thoughts of his actions as well as how his actions have had an effect on the city of Detroit alone.

Despite being raised here in Detroit, it seems that when he became Sec. of HUD, that he has not only forgotten where he has come from but has little concern for the poor through his statements.

[Hypestyles]

is there a full transcript of the speech?
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/25/530068...-state-of-mind

[renf]

Is there anyone in this group who knows Dr. Carson well. I have friends who knew him when he was a surgeon at Johns Hopkins and they speak highly of him as a compassionate physician. However, there is nothing in his book or his speeches to suggest that has read any of the immense literature about racial discrepancies, poverty and current urban challenges.

[Wesley Mouch]

Is there anyone in this group who knows Dr. Carson well. I have friends who knew him when he was a surgeon at Johns Hopkins and they speak highly of him as a compassionate physician. However, there is nothing in his book or his speeches to suggest that has read any of the immense literature about racial discrepancies, poverty and current urban challenges.

Dr. Carson may have noticed that the war on poverty, based on the 'immense literature' has accomplished nearly nothing, and if anything, has destroyed black society.

He is an outsider. He has no experience. And its hard to imagine how he can do any worse.

Not knowing the 'literature' -- and not having experience may be his most valuable asset. He has the opportunity to take a fresh approach to urban poverty. We can bitch, or we can let him try. We've had 50 years of failure. The worst that can happen is failure. Doesn't seem like a risk to me. I say let Carson be progressive and try new ideas.

[Bigdd]

Dr. Carson may have noticed that the war on poverty, based on the 'immense literature' has accomplished nearly nothing, and if anything, has destroyed black society.

........

Not knowing the 'literature' -- and not having experience may be his most valuable asset.

THIS

The Democratic welfare approach was never intended to help lift blacks OUT of poverty,.. rather to make them poor,.. dependent on government,.. and voting for the correct party.

It is one of the planks of Communism,.. which was boiled down into 8 easy steps by Hillary's mentor, Saul Alinsky.

Saul Alinsky's doctrine; 8 steps to topple a nation and create a socialist state.

1) Healthcare — Control healthcare and you control the people
2) Poverty — Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
3) Debt — Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
4) Gun Control — Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5) Welfare — Take control of every aspect of their lives [[Food, Housing, and Income).
6) Education — Take control of what people read and listen to — take control of what children learn in school.
7) Religion — Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.
8) Class Warfare — Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take [[Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

[EastsideAl]

Dr. Carson may have noticed that the war on poverty, based on the 'immense literature' has accomplished nearly nothing, and if anything, has destroyed black society.

The consistent invoking of the "war on poverty" hobgoblin by the right is so ahistorical that its ridiculous. Nixon essentially killed off the War on Poverty in the early '70s, in the process of undoing much of what the Johnson administration did. And it's been mostly downhill from there, under Republican and Democratic presidents alike.

[Tig3rzhark]

is there a full transcript of the speech?
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/25/530068...-state-of-mind

I couldn't find the full transcript.

[Tig3rzhark]

THIS

The Democratic welfare approach was never intended to help lift blacks OUT of poverty,.. rather to make them poor,.. dependent on government,.. and voting for the correct party.

It is one of the planks of Communism,.. which was boiled down into 8 easy steps by Hillary's mentor, Saul Alinsky.

Saul Alinsky's doctrine; 8 steps to topple a nation and create a socialist state.

1) Healthcare — Control healthcare and you control the people
2) Poverty — Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
3) Debt — Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
4) Gun Control — Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5) Welfare — Take control of every aspect of their lives [[Food, Housing, and Income).
6) Education — Take control of what people read and listen to — take control of what children learn in school.
7) Religion — Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.
8) Class Warfare — Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take [[Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

This nation will more than likely become another oligarchy like today's Russia. No wonder Trump has an admiration for Putin.

1. We were close to having good health care, until the GOP made it there mission to repeal it.

2. There is enough poverty to go around.

3. National Debt....check.

4. We have enough laws defending the rights of guns. I wouldn't worry about it so much.

5. Wanna take care of that problem? See 6.

6. If you want your children go to catholic school, pay for it yourself, or have the Vatican do it for ya. If you want to go to private school, pay for it yourself. Do not do it on the government dime.

7. That is what the U.S. Constitution is for. "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof." If we had an official religion in government, then we wouldn't have freedom of religion.

8. Talk to Trump and his supporters about that one.

[Richard]

This nation will more than likely become another oligarchy like today's Russia. No wonder Trump has an admiration for Putin.

1. We were close to having good health care, until the GOP made it there mission to repeal it.

2. There is enough poverty to go around.

3. National Debt....check.

4. We have enough laws defending the rights of guns. I wouldn't worry about it so much.

5. Wanna take care of that problem? See 6.

6. If you want your children go to catholic school, pay for it yourself, or have the Vatican do it for ya. If you want to go to private school, pay for it yourself. Do not do it on the government dime.

7. That is what the U.S. Constitution is for. "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof." If we had an official religion in government, then we wouldn't have freedom of religion.

8. Talk to Trump and his supporters about that one.

So you make a post about Mr. Carson and in usual media format you twist it around to it is Trumps fault that poverty exists. Why even pretend that you cared enough to ask? The posters cared enough to seriously answer the question.

Why would you even do that?

I think Russia has infiltrated the media more so then anything else.

That is page 17 in the handbook,create disorder by useing the media to spread misinformation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SYDgnCef8rs

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Ben_..._+_Poverty.htm

His speech was on xm,I am not a subscriber so not able to pull it up.

I do not care if he was tea party.
I do not care that he was an advive Mr. Obama supporter.
I think he is correct and is the best man for the job no matter how it gets twisted.

[Oddz313]

THIS

The Democratic welfare approach was never intended to help lift blacks OUT of poverty,.. rather to make them poor,.. dependent on government,.. and voting for the correct party.

It is one of the planks of Communism,.. which was boiled down into 8 easy steps by Hillary's mentor, Saul Alinsky.

Saul Alinsky's doctrine; 8 steps to topple a nation and create a socialist state.

1) Healthcare — Control healthcare and you control the people
2) Poverty — Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
3) Debt — Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
4) Gun Control — Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5) Welfare — Take control of every aspect of their lives [[Food, Housing, and Income).
6) Education — Take control of what people read and listen to — take control of what children learn in school.
7) Religion — Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.
8) Class Warfare — Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take [[Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

The debt goes up every year since Reagan adding to it is letting corporations stash over a trillion in tax liabilities every year and going to war all over.

[401don]

Whenever I see Carson speak he reminds me of that kid in class who always got straight A's but never had an ounce of common sense.

[Shai_Hulud]

Whenever I see Carson speak he reminds me of that kid in class who always got straight A's but never had an ounce of common sense.

The term savant comes to mind.

[3WC]

Wesley Mouch and Bigdd, your comments are the most thoughtful and intelligent I've seen on the Forum in a long time.

Bigdd, you are correct that Saul Alinski's influence over Hillary - and more so over Obama - has shaped much of U.S. policy over the past 8 years. It has damn near sunk us for good.

Carson has not only the intellectual creds for his job, but the street creds as well, having been born in and lived through poverty in his formative years.

To a great extent, poverty is a state of mind. So is wealth accretion. I have known many rich people, who did not inherit money. They have a singular trait - they have a compelling desire to become wealthy; they may not be the smartest people in the room, but they are the hardest workers and risk takers.

There are of course scores of much smarter people who do not desire to be rich. They desire lifestyles which provide more satisfaction than large amounts of money can provide.

There are almost infinite number of examples of persons who have risen out of poverty to achieve wealth and other less money driven accomplishments. Usually, there are strong family ties that influence them to have the necessary work ethic, reliance, self confidence and motivation to succeed. Carson's mom was such a person.

Carson's problem, if there is one, is that he is so calm and reasoned that too many people don't take him as seriously as they should. That's too bad. If he were a guy who comes across like like Trump when he's not Tweeting he would get a much larger audience.

[Richard]

Back in the day Mrs Roosevelt was riding through NYC,she witnessed recent immigrants living with multiple families in crowded one room apartments they were stuck in a catch 22 situation,poverty breeds desperation.

Her idea was if the government provided a hand up,meaning a clean place to lay their head and a substance to help them until they found employment.Once they found employment they were expected to go off on their own.

Most people feel much better if they have a dollar in their pocket and can be more productive when they are not having to worry about where their next meal was coming from or where they were going to sleep that night.

The American dream has no guarantees,it is hard and there is always somebody trying to knock one back down,the state of mind comes in with the ability to keep getting back up and pushing forward.

You see young adults in college working 3 jobs to put themselves through school,it is that state of mind that give them that drive to want to do better.

We created more poverty and desperation by dropping the hand up and converting it to a life long career,it was only meant for 90 days.

I agree with the concept of giving a hand up but also spending the necessary funds to help ensure the person receiving the help has the tools needed in order to be as successful in life as they wish.

Another point of Mr. Carson is it is not the governments job to be in the charity business,the private sector is more equipped to handle that because each individuals circumstance is different and it is cost prohibitive and wasteful for the government to run a one size fits all organization.

Another point of his is we give churches a tax exempt status,it is felt that because they receive that status they should be giving back to the community in both support and helping those in dire need.

There are many religious organizations that do exactly that,but there are also many that abuse that status.

He does interject religion or core values that everybody may not agree with,but if one does a bit of research on him,they are compassionate but with a firm hand.

XM had the interview,they released parts of it in commercials to entice listeners to purchase a subscription.

WAPo picked it up and twisted it into a war on the poor.

We will never eliminate poverty,it has been around for centuries but what we can do is offer the tools and opportunities to those that wish to rise abouve it,that creates hope and not desperation,we all know what desperation brings.

I have a friend,she is in her late 70s now,when she was 12 her mother passed and her father was a drunk,at 12 years old she would get her 2 younger siblings up and walk them to school,she would then go work in the fields picking cotton,or fruits or vegetables or whatever crops were advailable in order to feed her brother and sister,at 9 pm she would return from the fields,make the dinner,clean the shack,do the laundry,help her brother and sister with their homework and then she would do her homework that was sent by the teachers.

It is that drive,which is to do what ever it takes and make the sacrifices necessary to achieve the goals that you wish in life.

Last week the press and people were lambasting the millionaire Australian that commented about the younger generation will never own a home because they are more interested in expensive lattes and avocados [[some new fad having to do with $15 avocados).

They attacked him because they did not get the aspect of if you want something bad enough you have to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve that goal.

Sometimes people get caught up in the words and lose the message.

[Bigdd]

This nation will more than likely become another oligarchy like today's Russia. No wonder Trump has an admiration for Putin.

1. We were close to having good health care, until the GOP made it there mission to repeal it.


6. If you want your children go to catholic school, pay for it yourself, or have the Vatican do it for ya. If you want to go to private school, pay for it yourself. Do not do it on the government dime.

7. That is what the U.S. Constitution is for. "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof." If we had an official religion in government, then we wouldn't have freedom of religion.

Re #1. Tens if not hundreds of millions of people LOST their healthcare under Obamacare. Sure I have a card in my wallet [[Blue Cross),.. but it's worthless. The deductible is $14,300. So I pay well into 4 figures a month for nothing. Sure the poor get everything for free,.. but even then it's not health "CARE",.. rather it's just a health "plan",.. that only pays for MD's to keep you sick and addict you to drugs that don't fix anything. If you want to actually get cured,.. you have to leave the country and pay out of pocket.

Re #6. But then you have to pay twice. You pay to have your children go to public school with your local and state prop taxes,.. and then pay again for the private school. That's not right. And that's why vouchers are so important. The voucher could be used to pay for the private school. The best private school in my area is cheaper than the public schools and does a vastly better job.

#8? Huh? What does he have to do with that?

The reality is,.. neither party is in charge. The owners of the government are the ones making these decisions, and they are not bound by the Constitution. If they were,.. there would be no Dept of Ed, no govt control of our healthcare, no dept of Agriculture, no Federal income Tax, etc.

[drjeff]

A good friend of mine worked with Dr. Carson in the early 90s [[she's a nurse.) She says he was super nice, very eloquent, obviously intelligent. When she hears him speak now, it's like a different person. She and I suspect he has early dementia.

[Bham1982]

Bigdd, you are correct that Saul Alinski's influence over Hillary - and more so over Obama - has shaped much of U.S. policy over the past 8 years. It has damn near sunk us for good.

What?? Is this like some insane talking point from Breitbart or Infowars or something?

Saul Alinsky is like the polar opposite of Hillary and Obama. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Their social policies are diametrically opposed. Alinsky was a radical who sought to smash the system and basically end wealth accumulation.

The Obama administration presided over the second greatest period of wealth creation in American history. The [[Bill) Clinton administration presided over the greatest in history. The claim that their policies mirror those of Alinsky is completely bizarre and nonsensical.

Carson has not only the intellectual creds for his job, but the street creds as well, having been born in and lived through poverty in his formative years.

LOL! Carson is a d-bag of the highest level, has zero experience or credibility, talks like a raving lunatic, and lies about his background, childhood and career.

Come to think of it, he fits in perfectly with this administration. He's an unhinged nut.

To a great extent, poverty is a state of mind. So is wealth accretion.

Yes, those f-ing dirt-poor Africans, Middle Easterners, Latin Americans and SE Asians are just dummies who need to realize this! Duh!

Poverty is a "state of mind", starving children of sub-Saharan Africa! Buck-up, losers!

When you read comments like these, you understand damn well how this country could be so screwed. People really believe the nutcase alt-right stuff. They actually believe stuff like Pizzagate, "Obama was a Muslim radical commie", "Hillary had Vincent Foster killed" and all the rest.

This is like a cancer that needs to be rooted out, or this country is absolutely doomed. We'll be Venezuela in 50 years.

[Richard]

^^^

Hey,they have these life size cardboard cut out of Your president Mr Trump,if you like I can get you one for a Christmas present so his smiling face is the first one that you see every morning .

I can sent it a little early if you like,to help brighten your day and all if you prefer it sooner.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Of course there are many factors involved in poverty. But in the end, you cannot make someone else not poor. We should try to give everyone a good education [[but you can't make them study, do their homework, etc). I think what Dr. Carson was referring to is that ultimately the individual is the one responsible for whether or not they personally overcome poverty. Radically poor and uneducated immigrants of all colors tend to rise out of poverty both faster and in greater numbers than Americans living in poverty. In my opinion the social welfare state has made poverty comfortable enough so that there is not as strong an incentive to get out of it as there once was. Most welfare programs continue to exist for the mental satisfaction the program's advocates, not the true benefit of the recipients. The Left has-mostly unintentionally- broken the cycle of upward mobility in urban black and rural white poor areas.

[Zacha341]

...Radically poor and uneducated immigrants of all colors tend to rise out of poverty both faster and in greater numbers than Americans living in poverty.

They do overall, historically. We don't see the same generational welfare outcomes. This in part could be due to leveraging strong family networks.

In my opinion the social welfare state has made poverty comfortable enough so that there is not as strong an incentive to get out of it as there once was. Most welfare programs continue to exist for the mental satisfaction the program's advocates, not the true benefit of the recipients.

For certain living on welfare is precarious, and needs to be a turnstyle as such, and the funding not infinite. And as funds must be spread further the 'satisfaction' factor is fading. As is the tax-payer base.

The Left has-mostly unintentionally- broken the cycle of upward mobility in urban black and rural white poor areas.

Precisely! By jettisoning the man from the households [[to qualify for welfare benefits) the welfare state [[ergo replacing the head of the household) for example, helped destroy the black nuclear family.

The stronger the intact family, the stronger the opportunity for upward mobility!

[3WC]

Bham: We should just let you rant and rave but I feel compelled to respond since your nonsense was directed at me.

First, you obviously know nothing about Saul Alinski and his influence over Obama and Clinton. First, I confess I was an Alinski devotee in college many, many years ago. I saw many of the evils in the country and like so many other pseudo intellectuals and impressionable kids I became a follower. I devoured "Rules for Radicals" and Reveille for Radicals."

Hillary Clinton was one his most devoted followers. She became his friend and invited him to lecture several times at Wellesley. She wrote her senior thesis in support of his philosophy.

Obama was an even more devoted acolyte. Alinski's most significant tool towards overthrowing Capitalism and reducing the rich to the level of the poor [[talk about being screwed up), gaining power, was through
community organizing." Ring a bell?

Alinski was considered a genius by both his friends and enemies. He was very successful at what he did.

It didn't take me long, however, to realize Alinski had everything ass backwards. Obama and Clinton never saw the light.

You praise Obama's economic "accomplishments." Sure, he inherited a bad economy caused largely by Democrats control of Congress the last two years of Bush's administration. Dodd and Frank damn near economically wrecked the country, along with their Wall Street friends [[who still support Dems and have way too much influence in Washington) that created the mortgage meltdown. BUT, Obama did little to really stimulate the natural economic rebound. His policies resulted in the worst 7 years of economic recovery since 1949. He loaded so much debt on the country we'll never pay it down. Food stamp recipients tripled [[plug in the correct increase if that's slightly higher or lower.) The "poor" are worse off now than they were before the guy took office.

Luckily, just as in physics, politically, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and that's why Trump is president.

If you, Bham, were as 5th as smart or accomplished as Carson maybe somebody would give you some credit for your opinions. Dream on.

If the U.S. is like Venezuela in the future it will be because it's been taken over by radical left wing nut jobs. If the shoe fits, wear it.

[SyGolden48236]

Bham: We should just let you rant and rave but I feel compelled to respond since your nonsense was directed at me.

First, you obviously know nothing about Saul Alinski and his influence over Obama and Clinton. First, I confess I was an Alinski devotee in college many, many years ago. I saw many of the evils in the country and like so many other pseudo intellectuals and impressionable kids I became a follower. I devoured "Rules for Radicals" and Reveille for Radicals."

Hillary Clinton was one his most devoted followers. She became his friend and invited him to lecture several times at Wellesley. She wrote her senior thesis in support of his philosophy.

Obama was an even more devoted acolyte. Alinski's most significant tool towards overthrowing Capitalism and reducing the rich to the level of the poor [[talk about being screwed up), gaining power, was through
community organizing." Ring a bell?

Alinski was considered a genius by both his friends and enemies. He was very successful at what he did.

It didn't take me long, however, to realize Alinski had everything ass backwards. Obama and Clinton never saw the light.

You praise Obama's economic "accomplishments." Sure, he inherited a bad economy caused largely by Democrats control of Congress the last two years of Bush's administration. Dodd and Frank damn near economically wrecked the country, along with their Wall Street friends [[who still support Dems and have way too much influence in Washington) that created the mortgage meltdown. BUT, Obama did little to really stimulate the natural economic rebound. His policies resulted in the worst 7 years of economic recovery since 1949. He loaded so much debt on the country we'll never pay it down. Food stamp recipients tripled [[plug in the correct increase if that's slightly higher or lower.) The "poor" are worse off now than they were before the guy took office.

Luckily, just as in physics, politically, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and that's why Trump is president.

If you, Bham, were as 5th as smart or accomplished as Carson maybe somebody would give you some credit for your opinions. Dream on.

If the U.S. is like Venezuela in the future it will be because it's been taken over by radical left wing nut jobs. If the shoe fits, wear it.

Very astute and well said, 3WC. The best way to defeat liberals is with logic, reason and common sense.

Many lefties are so apoplectic and filled with an unhealthy rage that they cannot accept that their philosophy and their politics have been repudiated. They have lost touch with reality. For some, their behavior borders on psychosis and they are in desperate need of mental health care.

[oladub]

Catherine Austin Fitts was the Undersecretary of Housing under H.W.Bush.When she started investigating corruption within the Department of Housing, she was warmed by Secretary of Housing Jack Kempf to desist. She kept it up and was fired. Then she became a contractor for the Department of Housing, under Clinton, and her computers were taken. Her tale is that Housing is corrupt to the core with black holes where billions go missing. She assumes the money goes partly to fund unfunded wars and to line some pockets. This is the mess Ben Carson has to sort out if he is able. He seems to be an honest man.

Fitts maintains a blog: https://solari.com/blog/
One of her random articles: What you need to know about James Comey

[Bham1982]

Of course there are many factors involved in poverty. But in the end, you cannot make someone else not poor.

Tell that to the billions of people on earth who are no longer poor thanks to the development of social welfare states. Places like Scandinavia were historically poor places that now essentially have no abject poverty. Scandinavia had horrible famines with starvation 100 years ago.

The Left has-mostly unintentionally- broken the cycle of upward mobility in urban black and rural white poor areas.

What Left? We have no Left in the U.S. The idea that people aren't mobile because of the nonexistent Left, is absurd at face-level.

The highest economic mobility is in the most liberal states, and the lowest in the most conservative states. There is much more economic mobility in California or New York than in Indiana or Kentucky. Also socialist-leaning Northern Europe has much higher economic mobility than the U.S.

[Bham1982]

Bham: We should just let you rant and rave but I feel compelled to respond since your nonsense was directed at me.

First, you obviously know nothing about Saul Alinski and his influence over Obama and Clinton. First, I confess I was an Alinski devotee in college many, many years ago. I saw many of the evils in the country and like so many other pseudo intellectuals and impressionable kids I became a follower. I devoured "Rules for Radicals" and Reveille for Radicals."

Hillary Clinton was one his most devoted followers. She became his friend and invited him to lecture several times at Wellesley. She wrote her senior thesis in support of his philosophy.

Obama was an even more devoted acolyte. Alinski's most significant tool towards overthrowing Capitalism and reducing the rich to the level of the poor [[talk about being screwed up), gaining power, was through
community organizing." Ring a bell?

Alinski was considered a genius by both his friends and enemies. He was very successful at what he did.

It didn't take me long, however, to realize Alinski had everything ass backwards. Obama and Clinton never saw the light.

You praise Obama's economic "accomplishments." Sure, he inherited a bad economy caused largely by Democrats control of Congress the last two years of Bush's administration. Dodd and Frank damn near economically wrecked the country, along with their Wall Street friends [[who still support Dems and have way too much influence in Washington) that created the mortgage meltdown. BUT, Obama did little to really stimulate the natural economic rebound. His policies resulted in the worst 7 years of economic recovery since 1949. He loaded so much debt on the country we'll never pay it down. Food stamp recipients tripled [[plug in the correct increase if that's slightly higher or lower.) The "poor" are worse off now than they were before the guy took office.

Luckily, just as in physics, politically, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and that's why Trump is president.

If you, Bham, were as 5th as smart or accomplished as Carson maybe somebody would give you some credit for your opinions. Dream on.

If the U.S. is like Venezuela in the future it will be because it's been taken over by radical left wing nut jobs. If the shoe fits, wear it.

This entire post is a bizarre fantasy of lies. I don't know how to respond, because essentially every single sentence is utter garbage.