Why now? Olympia Parking Now Asphalts Gravel Surface Parking Lots Behind the Fox

**royce** · May-04-17, 01:23 AM

I know they are doing this now that Little Caesars Arena is on the horizon. However, they have owned these lots for years and Tigers' fans have been using these lots. Are hockey fans more prissy than baseball fans? Did the City of Detroit require that these lots be paved? Now, it's nice that they are being paved. However, paved means long-term. It would have been nice if they could have constructed a nice parking deck and freed up the remaining lots for residential/commercial development. That's what Dan Gilbert would have done

.

**gumby** · May-04-17, 07:24 AM

Probably so the money spent can be used as part of the spinoff development dollars they are contractually obligated to have happen.

**Bham1982** · May-04-17, 07:33 AM

This is that promised "huge spinoff development" resulting from a half-billion in taxpayer funding for our relocated hockey barn. The arena will be a huge boon for parking lot operators.

**emu steve** · May-04-17, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by gumby

Probably so the money spent can be used as part of the spinoff development dollars they are contractually obligated to have happen.

Guys, I think they will be 'over the finish line' as soon as everything which is started is finished.

As for 'why now'? I have no idea.

Maybe a 'parking lot' expert can explain if there are weather considerations, i.e., if they will be utilized more in winter [[think Red Wings, Pistons, etc. at LCA) that asphalt is preferable to dirt.

Is it easier to keep the lots clear for heavy usage?

How much usage did those lots get during winter [[i.e., when the Tigers were not playing ball)?

**Scottathew** · May-04-17, 07:48 AM

Perhaps they need more parking once they move their Little Caesars HQ to downtown?

**emu steve** · May-04-17, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

Perhaps they need more parking once they move their Little Caesars HQ to downtown?

I forget: How many additional workers will be working there?

So basically, dedicated [[de facto or de jure) parking for additional LC workers?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-04-17, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

This is that promised "huge spinoff development" resulting from a half-billion in taxpayer funding for our relocated hockey barn. The arena will be a huge boon for parking lot operators.

. I'd agree. They'll do things like pave lots and then all of the "development" funds will gone and they'll have to tear the Eddystone down. But there will be some big beautiful lots .

**Bham1982** · May-04-17, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

. But there will be some big beautiful lots

They'll be the biggest, most beautiful lots, believe me. And Mexico will pay for it.

**jt1** · May-04-17, 09:39 AM

By asphalting them the lots will be perceived as permanent. Nobody will question why they haven't done shit with their 'parking' since it is permanent.

A few inches of ashpalt better helps hide the fact that they were complicit in destroying any hope of that are being revived so they will get a pass for their scumbaggery

**Johnnny5** · May-04-17, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by royce

I know they are doing this now that Little Caesars Arena is on the horizon. However, they have owned these lots for years and Tigers' fans have been using these lots. Are hockey fans more prissy than baseball fans? Did the City of Detroit require that these lots be paved? Now, it's nice that they are being paved. However, paved means long-term. It would have been nice if they could have constructed a nice parking deck and freed up the remaining lots for residential/commercial development. That's what Dan Gilbert would have done

.

As EMU Steve mentioned there's likely a simple, non-political reason. When the Tigers fans need the lots it's in Spring, Summer and Fall. During the Red Wings and Pistons seasons they have to contend with the snow removal. I did quite a bit of commercial snow removal when I was younger, and plowing a large gravel lot is an absolute nightmare. Loose gravel moves just as easily as the snow, so the lot gets torn up and you end up with huge mounds of gravel when the snow melts.

**mikeg19** · May-04-17, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

They'll be the biggest, most beautiful lots, believe me. And Mexico will pay for it.

Haha. I see what you did there. Nice.

**Jason** · May-04-17, 12:54 PM

imo they wanted it to be a bombed out wasteland when they were acquiring properties at both arena sites. And then once the arena was finalized they waited a few years so that the parking lots would be fresh when the new arena opened.

And I agree with the idea that this will end up being counted towards their required development spending.

**brandomundo** · May-04-17, 01:18 PM

I think this has something to do with it: $750/mo per impervious acre

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...2011232016.pdf

I'm pretty sure the asphalt that is going down is rated "permiable" to grant them some exemption.

**Scottathew** · May-04-17, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by brandomundo

I'm pretty sure the asphalt that is going down is rated "permiable" to grant them some exemption.

Asphalt would not be consider permeable. In fact, it less permeable than gravel.

**brandomundo** · May-04-17, 03:02 PM

Sorry I was referring to this

https://www.wolfpaving.com/blog/bid/...ental-Benefits

Porous asphalt is actually more permeable than compacted gravel over compacted clay/silt. These systems basically have an engineered gravel reservoir a couple feet thick underneath the asphalt that captures rain water and releases it over time. The asphalt is paved with air gaps through it to allow water through.

**emu steve** · May-04-17, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

As EMU Steve mentioned there's likely a simple, non-political reason. When the Tigers fans need the lots it's in Spring, Summer and Fall. During the Red Wings and Pistons seasons they have to contend with the snow removal. I did quite a bit of commercial snow removal when I was younger, and plowing a large gravel lot is an absolute nightmare. Loose gravel moves just as easily as the snow, so the lot gets torn up and you end up with huge mounds of gravel when the snow melts.

Thanks, so we have TWO logical reasons why asphalt lots are desirable:

1). Maybe the lots will be used by additional Little Caesars employees [[and yes during winter, asphalt is better than gravel.)

2). If #1 is not true, then almost certainly those lots will be in demand for LCA events during the winter. The lot will need to be plowed and therefore, asphalt is the desired surface.

Both 1 & 2). For those who wish to think the Ilitches are getting rich: The lots will be used by employees during the day and LCA customers at night/weekends...

**Lowell** · May-04-17, 06:33 PM

They're in for a disappointment. The lots will be empty because all the fans will take the Q-line in.

Right?

**Towne Cluber** · May-04-17, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

imo they wanted it to be a bombed out wasteland when they were acquiring properties at both arena sites. And then once the arena was finalized they waited a few years so that the parking lots would be fresh when the new arena opened.

And I agree with the idea that this will end up being counted towards their required development spending.

1. Paving some parking lots wouldn't put a dent in the required development spending.

2. There are plenty of "they" in Detroit that wanted it [[and the whole city) to be a bombed out wasteland -- including political, criminal, religious, elite, and business interests.

**Scottathew** · May-05-17, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by brandomundo

Sorry I was referring to this

https://www.wolfpaving.com/blog/bid/...ental-Benefits

Porous asphalt is actually more permeable than compacted gravel over compacted clay/silt. These systems basically have an engineered gravel reservoir a couple feet thick underneath the asphalt that captures rain water and releases it over time. The asphalt is paved with air gaps through it to allow water through.

Thanks for the information!

I would still be very surprised if the city would consider any form of paving as permeable. Perhaps they would some consideration to more advanced materials.

**emu steve** · May-05-17, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by royce

I know they are doing this now that Little Caesars Arena is on the horizon. However, they have owned these lots for years and Tigers' fans have been using these lots. Are hockey fans more prissy than baseball fans? Did the City of Detroit require that these lots be paved? Now, it's nice that they are being paved. However, paved means long-term. It would have been nice if they could have constructed a nice parking deck and freed up the remaining lots for residential/commercial development. That's what Dan Gilbert would have done

.

You asked a lot of questions, but I have one you didn't ask [[or assumed):

1). How many lot are we speaking?

**UofMGuy423** · May-05-17, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

You asked a lot of questions, but I have one you didn't ask [[or assumed):

1). How many lot are we speaking?

I work over in Grand Circus Park and they've been working on probably 5-6 lots since early Spring, which included digging up the old foundations of the demolished buildings and then laying down drainage systems, curbs, asphalt, emergency phone stations, fencing, shrubs and trees. The largest ones being the two surface lots between Adams and Columbia facing Grand River. They just started working on one more this week on Elizabeth. So my guess would be about a total of 6 or so when they're all done. For surface lots, they look a lot better then they were, but they're still surface parking lots.

**emu steve** · May-05-17, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by UofMGuy423

I work over in Grand Circus Park and they've been working on probably 5-6 lots since early Spring, which included digging up the old foundations of the demolished buildings and then laying down drainage systems, curbs, asphalt, emergency phone stations, fencing, shrubs and trees. The largest ones being the two surface lots between Adams and Columbia facing Grand River. They just started working on one more this week on Elizabeth. So my guess would be about a total of 6 or so when they're all done. For surface lots, they look a lot better then they were, but they're still surface parking lots.

Excellent info.

My guess is that they feel the need to increase the supply of 'decent quality' [[even if it is surface) parking in the area.

There will be many times say like "April in the D" when the Wings or Pistons .and. Tigers are playing the same day.

Won't there possibly be concerts at LCA the same evening as a Tigers game at Comerica? [[I have no idea if we'll see it THIS September as concerts are already scheduled for LCA).

Or a Lions game opposite something at LCA [[e.g., Wings, Pistons or other entertainment). That could total 85K attendees combined at both venues.

With LCA likely to do 150 - 175 events per year, there will be a lot of event 'doubleheaders' between LCA and either Comerica or Ford Field.

And I assume if we are talking of a LCA event [[with no other event at Comerica or Ford Field) that many drivers would park in these lots and cross the Fisher at either Clifford or Woodward rather than park east of Woodward.

**southen** · May-05-17, 11:31 AM

The mental gymnastics you do to justify every action from that family never ceases to astonish me.

**detroitbob** · May-05-17, 11:48 AM

The significant parts of this area has been parking since the 1920's...when the big theatres were built on Woodward and Bagley/Grand Circus Park. Downtown had few parking lots in the core central business district area and the area between Park and Grand River was no longer desirable as a residential area. Some structures remained but parking predominated and likely will stay that way for the foreseeable future unless/until high rise development moves in and builds with parking structures as part of any development.

**emu steve** · May-05-17, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by southen

The mental gymnastics you do to justify every action from that family never ceases to astonish me.

I have no dog in this fight nor ax to grind.

If someone rehabs a building I say, "Good."

If someone improves even surface parking I say, "Good."

We all know that not everyone would grow up to be a rocket scientist, and as DetroitBob points out not every parcel will grow up to be a 20 story class A office building or residential.

This is the same as the DTE land that they 'improved' on by making it a park.

Just play the hand one was dealt.