1967 Remembered

[Kathleen]

"Dream Deferred: Detroit 67," a Matrix Theatre Company original production based on interviews recorded by Dr. Xavier Nicholas, has been extended again til July 15. Get your tickets now! These shows will sell out.
http://www.matrixtheatre.org/mainstage-season

[erikd]

1967 is an indelible number in the mindscape of Detroit. As we head toward the July 50th anniversary of the that seminal event, reflections over it are emerging.

Of course it has been extensively discussed over the years on this forum. To that end, using tagging, a "tag forum" showing the 1967 Detroit Riot threads can be seen here.

The build up to the anniversary began with the Detroit Free Press film festival and the showing of 12th and Clairmount. Last night a major exhibition opened at the Walther Reuther Library on the Wayne State campus. "12th Street, Detroit, 1967: Employment, Housing, Policing, and Race Relations in Evidence." runs through Jan. 2018

Sure to fuel interest is the upcoming summer release of Kathryn Bigelow's [of Hurt Locker fame] treatment simply called Detroit which is currently being discussed here.

Question for forum members and our audience... Is this attention good, bad or indifferent? Cathartic or Disturbing.

The attention paid to the 1967 Detroit riots is not a bad thing, per se, but I find that the Detroit riots are frequently discussed and viewed outside of the larger national context in which they occurred. People seem to forget that the Detroit riots happened in the middle of an unprecedented period of riots that swept across the country in this period. Any attempt to examine or understand the 1967 Detroit riots outside of this larger national epidemic of widespread rioting is missing the big picture, and can lead to much confusion and misunderstanding about the underlying causes and issues leading to the Detroit riots.

[erikd]

We didn't have Federal troops & tanks in the '92 LA riots, though I remember seeing young California National Guardsmen holding AK-47s guarding the beaches from gangs. That frightened me. In both Detroit & LA I received most of my news from the media. In LA I was closer to the disturbance where in Detroit it was completely 2nd-hand.
When the Detroit riots started on 12th street I was parked there to attend a Tigers game at old Briggs Stadium. I was attending a double-header against the Yankees. I left after the 1st game [[just when the riots were starting) because the Tigers were playing so badly. I didn't hear about the riots until I got home. The defensive shortstop made 3 errors on one play. That was it for me.
As I remember, the level of violence & deaths & injuries were lesser in LA than Detroit. The riots in both cities happened so long ago it's difficult to remember anything except feelings. Both riots were cataclysmic. Comparing them is somewhat meaningless. The LA riots were less violent, because LA's leaders learned a bit from the Detroit riots. Unfortunately, the police forces of both cities were too aggressive.

This discussion about the 1992 LA riots vs the 1967 Detroit riots is a good example of the lack of context and misunderstanding that is common when talking about the 1967 Detroit riots.

The 1992 LA riots were somewhat of an anomaly for that time. There was no widespread outbreak of rioting in the early 1990s, unlike the period of rioting that occurred in the last half of the 1960s.

It is ridiculous to say things like "the [[1992) LA riots were less violent, because LA's leaders learned a bit from the Detroit riots."

This shows a complete lack of awareness of the 1965 Watts riots in LA, when a six-day riot broke out, resulting in 34 deaths, over a 1000 injuries, and the California National Guard being called in to quell the rioting.

[kathy2trips]

In both 1943

and 1967
.....business owners tried to designate their store as black-owned but in both cases, the rioters didn't care. It didn't matter whose livelihood they destroyed. This shows it wasn't about race because if it was, they wouldn't have harmed a black-owned business. What would be the point of that? It was about getting back at "the man", any man, or woman who worked hard to build something. Without business, there is no work, and without work, there is no life...only welfare and crime. All you have to do is look at all the empty shops, offices and factories in Detroit to see what an anti-business mentality can do to a community.

[Pam]

https://youtu.be/iTTGZjZmPYg

Former Detroit Police officer Anthony Fierimonte discusses his experiences on the force--including his role in the raid on the blind pig at 12th Street and Clairmont Street on July 23, 1967--in this interview conducted on October 10, 2014.

[Maof]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/detroit-...-city-erupted/

on "sunday morning" today.

[Meddle]

This discussion about the 1992 LA riots vs the 1967 Detroit riots is a good example of the lack of context and misunderstanding that is common when talking about the 1967 Detroit riots.

unlike the period of rioting that occurred in the last half of the 1960s.



This shows a complete lack of awareness of the 1965 Watts riots in LA, when a six-day riot broke out, resulting in 34 deaths, over a 1000 injuries, and the California National Guard being called in to quell the rioting.

Newark, NJ was at almost the same time, within a few days:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Newark_riots

And Milwaukee just a few days later:

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/mil...32420114.html/

Roxbury/Boston, June:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/19...inally-breaks/

[Meddle]

Long hot summer of 1967 refers to the 159 race riots that erupted across the United States in 1967.[1][2][3] In June there were riots in Atlanta, Boston, and Cincinnati, as well as the Buffalo riot [[in Buffalo, New York), and a riot in Tampa, Florida. In July there were riots in Birmingham, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Britain, Conn., Rochester, N.Y., and a riot in Plainfield, New Jersey. The most serious riots of the summer took place in July, with the riot in Newark, New Jersey and the Twelfth Street riot, in Detroit, Michigan. As a result of the rioting in the Summer of 1967, and the preceding two years, President Johnson established the Kerner Commission to investigate the rioting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hot_summer_of_1967


And the 1960s in general, including one that inspired a famous song by Buffalo Springfield:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...0.E2.80.931969

[Jimaz]

[Detroit 1967: Oral History Interview with Anthony Fierimonte, Ph.D:] https://youtu.be/iTTGZjZmPYg

What a great story. What a great story teller.

At 26:55 he seems very confident that there were actual tanks [[from the 101st Airborne) present during the riot and that one even shot the steeple off a church! I don't think mere armored personnel carriers could do that.

At 48:00 he touches on drug legalization.

[Meddle]

There is absolutely no doubt there were tanks. No question about that at all. I have heard first hand accounts of a tank used to flush a sniper, but The version I heard was about a large house. The tank turned the turret towards the window and the guy gave up in a hurry.


The steeple bit would have been well documented though, don't you think?

[Ray1936]

For the sake of argument, they weren't tanks. They were armored personnel carriers, made by Cadillac Tool and Gauge. They had no heavy artillery. Even the National Guard 'tanks' were armed with only shotguns and a few .30-06 sniper rifles.

[Meddle]

Ray, I know what you think, but I've posted pictures of them and have heard too many other first hand account from police and fire personnel who were there at the time and saw them. There are also accounts on some military websites. There were tanks. Combat field ready tanks. Full blown, artillery equipped tanks. There were also the smaller, lighter APC type vehicles.

[Meddle]

What's in the picture at the bottom of this page?

http://www.mcrfb.com/?p=15900

[Jimaz]

For the sake of argument, they weren't tanks. They were armored personnel carriers, made by Cadillac Tool and Gauge. They had no heavy artillery. Even the National Guard 'tanks' were armed with only shotguns and a few .30-06 sniper rifles.

I'm not going to judge one way or another. I've already heard both sides of that argument here.

At any rate Ray1936, I was curious what you thought of that video Pam posted. I usually get bored with long videos but that one held my attention.

[Meddle]

Tell me this isn't a tank:



Source is here as one of the scrolling gallery about the 4th or 5th picture: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/photo-ga...st-in-detroit/

And what's in this picture?

http://www.joelsolkoff.com/tag/detroit-riots-of-1967/

[Ray1936]

What's in the picture at the bottom of this page?

http://www.mcrfb.com/?p=15900

Oooo...good link, Meddle. Yes, they had .50 caliber machine guns, and they used some during the riot. But no artillery; nothing larger than a half inch. And, golly, I did find the DPD used tanks.

[Jimaz]

From the caption ↑ "possible communistic rioting"

There's an adjective you don't see often these days.

[Ray1936]

Anyway, I've been trying for 50 years to forget the whole mess.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

There is absolutely no doubt there were tanks. No question about that at all. I have heard first hand accounts of a tank used to flush a sniper, but The version I heard was about a large house. The tank turned the turret towards the window and the guy gave up in a hurry.


The steeple bit would have been well documented though, don't you think?

I have to agree with Meddle here. I was 10 yrs old, and grew up in NW Detroit at the time, and remember seeing tanks going up and down 8 Mile Rd. The one's I saw, were exactly like the one in post # 65, at the bottom of the page. Fortunately, my Dad took the family, South soon after, and we didn't return until it was over.

[jcole]

What a great story. What a great story teller.

At 26:55 he seems very confident that there were actual tanks [[from the 101st Airborne) present during the riot and that one even shot the steeple off a church! I don't think mere armored personnel carriers could do that.

There were definitely real tanks and real Army. My dad was a DPD Inspector based with the 101st Airborne on the east side. Tanks rolled over a lot of stuff.

[jcole]

Oooo...good link, Meddle. Yes, they had .50 caliber machine guns, and they used some during the riot. But no artillery; nothing larger than a half inch. And, golly, I did find the DPD used tanks.

Is this 1943?

[Lowell]

Day 1

In the summer of 1967 I was living in an apartment at 70 W. Warren, between Woodward and Cass, having come to Detroit from my university in Indiana to work a summer job at the Dearborn Engine Plant. My car had died a couple of weeks before and I was taking the Warren Crosstown bus to my job in the Rouge industrial complex in Dearborn.

The following is my eye witness account of the 1967 Detroit Riot, as excerpted from a diary I kept and am now posting on the 50^th anniversary.

Sunday - July 23, 1967
“I got up at 1 PM today today and proceeded to do a great deal of housecleaning until about 5 PM when Dan and his fiancée Vivian came by and took me out to Vivian’s [parent’s house] for swimming and supper.

“In the afternoon I discovered that a riot had exploded in Detroit’s near Westside with the eye of the storm being at 12th Ave. and Euclid Avenue, about one mile from my apartment. Widespread firebombing and looting had been reported.

“Upon returning from Southfield with Dan and Vivian, a black pall of smoke could be seen hovering over the inner-city area. It was ominous and frightening. We were going to leave the expressway at Livernois and go down to Grand River to stop at Vivian's place of work but raging fires, the sight of looters running about with their arms full of thievings and the radio reports of sniper fire changed our minds. Notable was a complete absence of police and firemen.

At the top of the ramp fires could be seen raging untended at a couple of storefronts down Livernois. Numerous looters, Afro and Euro-American, were joyously running about on Livernois hugging arms full of thievings. Other people sat on their porches calmly watching the festive scene while their littles one played on the sidewalk before them. The scene had a party atmosphere, unthreatening, all laughter, no anger. There were too many people on the street for driving so we continued across Livernois and down the down ramp back onto the Lodge.

An evening of uncertainty followed. A symphony sirens continuously wailed in the background. Squad cars were flying in and out of the 13th Precinct police station a block away at Hancock and Woodward. All hands were on deck. They were leaving on patrols in convoys of four cars, each with a rifle barrel sticking out of all windows but the driver’s. Fire trucks were racing and howling by on Warren and Woodward. The distinctive sour woody smell of smoke that comes from burning buildings hung in the muggy summer air. I had no TV, but the radio broadcasts I heard had turned to full time coverage of the exploding events that worsened with each update. From the radio I learned that a 9:00PM to 5 AM curfew had been imposed creating an awkward situation.

“When I got home, to my surprise and delight, Toni came by. [A woman who I had met the previous evening at Johnnie’s Restaurant through a mutual chess-playing friend. The three of us had ended up hanging out at my place and drinking wine to wee hours.] She was just lonely. So we spent the evening together setting the stage for a most interesting episode. We learned from the radio that a 9 PM to 5 AM curfew was in effect so Toni had to stay here for the night. We slept in the same bed together, but did not sleep together, odd and frustrating to have a Playboy bunny in your bed and yet unable to take advantage of it! She is too crazy about some other man at the moment who is apathetic towards her. She's strange and captivating.”

Read: Day 2

[Ray1936]

Me. 2nd from left, with the tear gas jacket and gun. Philadelphia just east of 12th street or whatever it's called now. DFD photograph; we were covering for the fire fighters who were being stoned on that corner while trying to douse a fire.

I'd just as soon forget the whole thing. Mob mentality. It's the Stockholm Syndrome gone nutsy.

Now I'm sitting here, wondering why I bothered to post this in the first place. But I'll hit the 'submit' button anyway.

Deep, deep sigh.

[Pam]

Silent, color digital video, transferred from 16mm film, taken by Edward T. Breslin during the unrest of July 1967. The original film's canister bears a tag marked "Riot Film." The film includes action along 12th Street, aerial footage of fires, scenes within Police Headquarters and Detroit General Hospital, and a ride-along in a military armored personnel carrier

[Hermod]

Tell me this isn't a tank:



Source is here as one of the scrolling gallery about the 4th or 5th picture: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/photo-ga...st-in-detroit/

And what's in this picture?

http://www.joelsolkoff.com/tag/detroit-riots-of-1967/

M48A2 medium tank [[and not from the 101st Airborne).